(06-08-2023, 05:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Indeed it is. But that does not exclude there being a promoted ideology. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. Take a transgender man like Buck Angel. He speaks out against it all the time.
I really don't understand this line of thought. The ideology in question is one of being accepting and respectful of people no matter who they are. I don't see the issue or how it is specifically "transgender ideology."
(06-08-2023, 05:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I am aware. I also think the reason Target backed away is they did not fully vet this artist before singing him up for their campaign and knew they had stepped in it. I don't care if he's an actual Satanist or not either, but there are millions of people who do.
And again, I don't disagree. I don't give a shit about these items, I didn't post them as a justification for my moral indignation. But, there's millions of people who are going to be bothered by them. And you're absolutely correct, it's totally his right under the 1A. Just as it is the right of those who object to him to do so and not be labeled "economic terrorists."
(06-08-2023, 06:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is true for pretty much anything but kid's clothing/items. For some reason parents are rather protective of their kids. If Target was selling children's merch with Trump on them you better damned well believe there'd be a huge uproar from a completely different group of people.
I'm going to respond to these three with one. What about Abprallen's items were geared towards children?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-08-2023, 06:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I didn't say transgenderism, I said the transgender movement. I think anyone but their parents teaching children about sex, sexuality or transgenderism is disturbing. Why would anyone want to talk to literal children about these issues? When I worked at a group home I had kids ask me questions about sensitive topics all the time. I would inform them that my having that conversation with them would not be appropriate. Why, because they aren't my kids and I have no business offering my position on those types of subjects to them. I had a kid ask me what I thought happened after you die, he got the same response. Again, why is anyone motivated to discuss these topics with children who aren't theirs? That's why terms like indoctrination get bandied about.
So, are you just against sex education in our schools, then?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-08-2023, 06:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is true for pretty much anything but kid's clothing/items. For some reason parents are rather protective of their kids. If Target was selling children's merch with Trump on them you better damned well believe there'd be a huge uproar from a completely different group of people.
Would you deem Trump clothing for children to be targeting by MAGA ideology?
(06-08-2023, 07:38 PM)Lucidus Wrote: So, what's the transgender ideology you asserted was being used to target children? What you're alluding to here isn't an ideology.
I've literally addressed this multiple times, so repeating it gets a bit old. An all ages friendly drag show where literal children have a scantily clad adult human gyrating in their face is targeting children. Avoid this question, what adult human would be comfortable doing that to a child?
Quote:Again, you seem to be avoiding my questions? You asserted rather strongly that transgender ideology was being used to target children. Please define said ideology and give a specific example of that ideology and how it is targeting children. Thus far, you've only referenced anecdotal conversations that you find "disturbing".
Yes, when you have adults claiming that toddlers are trans that is an ideology being pushed on children. Are toddlers children? Can a toddler decide what they are on their own? Again, btw, you mischaracterize my position. I didn't use the term disturbing. You have a bad habit of mischaracterizing my positions. I said it is inappropriate to have these types of conversations with children that are not yours. A school hiding a child's "gender identity" from their parent is trans ideology usurping parental rights. You have absolutely no right, or need, to have these conversations with other people's children. And you have even less right to deliberately hide that conversation from their parents.
Quote:I didn't state that you said that, hence why I asked your opinion.
Parsing hairs here, but you clearly didn't get the response you were hoping for, so moving on.
Quote:Would you find a children's shirt that states "Jesus Christ is King" to be attempted persuasion?
Absolutely.
Quote:Please give the specific message you think is being pushed.
Again, I've addressed this. In the past a girl who enjoyed typically male things would have been labeled a tomboy. Now people scramble to tell them they're trans. That is a specific message. Let children be children. Let them figure things out on their own with the assistance of their loved ones. They don't need a teacher or some other person paid to be in their lives to steer them in one direction or another.
(06-08-2023, 07:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I really don't understand this line of thought. The ideology in question is one of being accepting and respectful of people no matter who they are. I don't see the issue or how it is specifically "transgender ideology."
Is it? Why then is a man who refuses to date a trans-woman a transphobe? Why is a lesbian woman who refuses to date a trans-woman with a penis a transphobe? If it was confined to respecting an individual's personal beliefs or preferences you'd have zero complaint from me, and most others.
Quote:I'm going to respond to these three with one. What about Abprallen's items were geared towards children?
I don't know if his specific merch was targeted towards children. It likely got lumped in with everything else.
(06-08-2023, 07:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, are you just against sex education in our schools, then?
For children, yes. Are you in favor of teaching 1st graders about anal sex? How about 2nd graders? How about 3rd? Let me know when it becomes acceptable to you.
(06-08-2023, 07:44 PM)Dill Wrote: At least 4 possibilities then.
1. Both sides are right.
2. Both sides are wrong.
3. One side is right, and the other side IS filled with demons.
4. Both sides have demons, but one more so, to the point of driving its policy.
If only there were some way to sort these out with some kind of factual record.
I think it depends on what you consider a demon. If someone is doing something that they legitimately think is for the best, but it is causing disastrous consequences, whether that be due to their ill-informed belief being wrong or their actions having unintended consequences, are they a demon?
If so, then I think the right is nothing but demons.
For me, though, I think the demons on the right are the ultra wealthy and powerful politicians, capitalists and lobbyists who have a vested interest in keeping the focus of their voters on marginal culture war issues that don't actually affect them so that they can continue to collect their votes while providing nothing of value to them other than outrage.
Many others on the right, I think, are just easily manipulated pawns who don't realize that they're fighting against basic human rights for other people. They've been so brain washed and conditioned to think everything on the left is evil because, if they didn't believe that, they may end up voting for people who will actually improve their lives, like those who want to make healthcare more affordable and raise their wages.
The "demons on the left" on the other hand are much smaller in percentage, and I am not certain I'd classify them as demons myself, but I find some people on the left make it harder for us to convince right wingers and centrists that we are the rational side (and, in some cases, actually radicalize people against the left) because they do stupid shit like, as SSF mentioned, declare their toddlers are trans and attack people who are peacefully protesting.
Now, how many people on the left do this stuff vs how much of it is reported in the right wing media sphere? I am almost certain every single, solitary case is magnified to make it seem much more common than it is, but as long as they exist, they will be weaponized against the left, which makes our job harder.
But yes, obviously, I agree that the demons mostly reside on the right. Somewhere between options 3 and 4, I reckon.
(06-08-2023, 08:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it? Why then is a man who refuses to date a trans-woman a transphobe? Why is a lesbian woman who refuses to date a trans-woman with a penis a transphobe? If it was confined to respecting an individual's personal beliefs or preferences you'd have zero complaint from me, and most others.
You're taking something coming from a small percentage of people and applying that to a much broader population. It is no different than the logic from the ACAB folks.
(06-08-2023, 08:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't know if his specific merch was targeted towards children. It likely got lumped in with everything else.
But you were specifically focusing on his items and talking about them being aimed at children by referencing his other merch that was not in the store. I am genuinely curious what pride merchandise was legitimately marketed towards children in the stores and what the issues were with it. What messaging was so offensive?
(06-08-2023, 08:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: For children, yes. Are you in favor of teaching 1st graders about anal sex? How about 2nd graders? How about 3rd? Let me know when it becomes acceptable to you.
Are children in elementary school being taught about anal sex? Before I get angry about something I like to know if it is actually happening. Sex ed for me started in 4th grade FWIW, but I had already been exposed to pornography for a few years at that point.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-08-2023, 08:04 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think it depends on what you consider a demon. If someone is doing something that they legitimately think is for the best, but it is causing disastrous consequences, whether that be due to their ill-informed belief being wrong or their actions having unintended consequences, are they a demon?
If so, then I think the right is nothing but demons.
For me, though, I think the demons on the right are the ultra wealthy and powerful politicians, capitalists and lobbyists who have a vested interest in keeping the focus of their voters on marginal culture war issues that don't actually affect them so that they can continue to collect their votes while providing nothing of value to them other than outrage.
Many others on the right, I think, are just easily manipulated pawns who don't realize that they're fighting against basic human rights for other people. They've been so brain washed and conditioned to think everything on the left is evil because, if they didn't believe that, they may end up voting for people who will actually improve their lives, like those who want to make healthcare more affordable and raise their wages.
The "demons on the left" on the other hand are much smaller in percentage, and I am not certain I'd classify them as demons myself, but I find some people on the left make it harder for us to convince right wingers and centrists that we are the rational side (and, in some cases, actually radicalize people against the left) because they do stupid shit like, as SSF mentioned, declare their toddlers are trans and attack people who are peacefully protesting.
Now, how many people on the left do this stuff vs how much of it is reported in the right wing media sphere? I am almost certain every single, solitary case is magnified to make it seem much more common than it is, but as long as they exist, they will be weaponized against the left, which makes our job harder.
But yes, obviously, I agree that the demons mostly reside on the right. Somewhere between options 3 and 4, I reckon.
I really wish I could agree with your point, but I applaud your attempt to be evenhanded. Certainly much more so then most of the posters here. How many left wing speakers have been attacked or prevented from speaking at college campuses? Now, how many right leaning speakers has this happened to? How many gay pride parades have been attacked by groups of violent protestors? Now, how many right leaning events/protests have been attacked by groups of violent protestors? I literally just provided the Glendale example.
The ultimate point is, and what many people here are desperate to avoid confronting, is there is extreme bullshit going on on both ends of the ideological spectrum today. The only difference of substance is that one side is constantly excused by the mainstream and the other side is consistently demonized, see "domestic terrorist" parents at school board meetings again. Seriously, at the end of the day I'm going to live my life and enjoy it as best I can. But I abhor unfairness, and today's society is rife with it, and far too many people here appear to ok with it because it aligns with their personal preferences.
(06-08-2023, 08:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're taking something coming from a small percentage of people and applying that to a much broader population. It is no different than the logic from the ACAB folks.
Or that all Trump supporters are racist bigots? But you asked for an example of the ideology, I gave it. If the more mainstream members of the movement completely disavowed this you'd have a much stronger position.
Quote:But you were specifically focusing on his items and talking about them being aimed at children by referencing his other merch that was not in the store. I am genuinely curious what pride merchandise was legitimately marketed towards children in the stores and what the issues were with it. What messaging was so offensive?
No, I wasn't. I said they promoted him. As for merchandise marketed towards children the "tuck friendly" swimwear leaps to mind. Of the myriad clothing items with pride messages on them.
Don't take my word for it, here's the pride merchandise for children search on their website.
Quote:Are children in elementary school being taught about anal sex?
You asked about sex education for children, is anal sex not sex?
Quote:Before I get angry about something I like to know if it is actually happening. Sex ed for me started in 4th grade FWIW, but I had already been exposed to pornography for a few years at that point.
You, me and pretty much everyone else from Gen X. Point being that a topic you know about is not the same as a topic endorsed by adults. When I was 17 I came home drunk as hell off Rumplemintz (can't even smell it now decades later). I was vomiting in the bathroom when my dad came in and asked if I was ok. I told him I had food poisoning and he said ok and asked if I needed anything. I said no and he left me to it. At the time I was thinking I had gotten away with a grand deception, but as an adult you know that bathroom reeked of booze and he absolutely knew what was going on. But if he had confronted me about being drunk and been ok with it would that not have encouraged the behavior? Part of growing up is testing boundaries and believing you got over on adults. There's a huge difference between that and adults actually excusing or endorsing that behavior.
(06-08-2023, 08:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I really wish I could agree with your point, but I applaud your attempt to be evenhanded. Certainly much more so then most of the posters here. How many left wing speakers have been attacked or prevented from speaking at college campuses? Now, how many right leaning speakers has this happened to? How many gay pride parades have been attacked by groups of violent protestors? Now, how many right leaning events/protests have been attacked by groups of violent protestors? I literally just provided the Glendale example.
The ultimate point is, and what many people here are desperate to avoid confronting, is there is extreme bullshit going on on both ends of the ideological spectrum today. The only difference of substance is that one side is constantly excused by the mainstream and the other side is consistently demonized, see "domestic terrorist" parents at school board meetings again. Seriously, at the end of the day I'm going to live my life and enjoy it as best I can. But I abhor unfairness, and today's society is rife with it, and far too many people here appear to ok with it because it aligns with their personal preferences.
I don't have numbers for you regarding gay pride parades being attacked etc.
Regarding speakers at college, I think the students should have the right to protest speakers that they think spout hurtful rhetoric. I'm not aware of any speakers being attacked but it wouldn't surprise me. For some on the left, they believe those people's words are literally violence (and in some cases, I agree).
And I think the thing you're picking up on with the media is that one side is fighting for equal rights and the other is fighting against them (or that is the perception at the very least) and people generally view the former more favorably than the latter.
(06-08-2023, 08:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I've literally addressed this multiple times, so repeating it gets a bit old. An all ages friendly drag show where literal children have a scantily clad adult human gyrating in their face is targeting children. Avoid this question, what adult human would be comfortable doing that to a child?
I've been to many all-ages drag shows. The queens dance, have fun and express themselves. Everyone has a good time and no one is thinking about sex, except for those that oppose drag shows. Are you equally as outraged when people take children to sporting events with "scantily clad" cheerleaders "gyrating" on the big screen for every child to see?
Quote:Yes, when you have adults claiming that toddlers are trans that is an ideology being pushed on children. Are toddlers children? Can a toddler decide what they are on their own? Again, btw, you mischaracterize my position. I didn't use the term disturbing. You have a bad habit of mischaracterizing my positions. I said it is inappropriate to have these types of conversations with children that are not yours. A school hiding a child's "gender identity" from their parent is trans ideology usurping parental rights. You have absolutely no right, or need, to have these conversations with other people's children. And you have even less right to deliberately hide that conversation from their parents.
"I think anyone but their parents teaching children about sex, sexuality or transgenderism is disturbing."
Quote:Again, I've addressed this. In the past a girl who enjoyed typically male things would have been labeled a tomboy. Now people scramble to tell them they're trans. That is a specific message. Let children be children. Let them figure things out on their own with the assistance of their loved ones. They don't need a teacher or some other person paid to be in their lives to steer them in one direction or another.
People aren't scrambling to make children transgender. This is extremely outlandish and conspiratorial thinking. You have yet to identify an ideology; only your own opinions.
(06-08-2023, 08:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Or that all Trump supporters are racist bigots? But you asked for an example of the ideology, I gave it. If the more mainstream members of the movement completely disavowed this you'd have a much stronger position.
Yes, that is another example. It still doesn't make it an ideology.
(06-08-2023, 08:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, I wasn't. I said they promoted him. As for merchandise marketed towards children the "tuck friendly" swimwear leaps to mind. Of the myriad clothing items with pride messages on them.
Don't take my word for it, here's the pride merchandise for children search on their website.
Eh, still seemed to me like you were referencing him. The tuck friendly swimwear was not marketed towards children, that was a false claim. As for the clothing items on there? I don't see anything outrageous.
(06-08-2023, 08:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You asked about sex education for children, is anal sex not sex?
Everywhere that I know of the curriculum for sex education is based on what is appropriate for the grade level. Lower grade levels talk about anatomy and family units. When you talk about family units, well, the idea of same-sex parents is going to be a thing. That doesn't mean that there needs to be discussion about what they do in the bedroom. So, unless I can see some evidence of them talking about anal sex with elementary schoolers I am not going to be up in arms over this.
(06-08-2023, 08:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You, me and pretty much everyone else from Gen X. Point being that a topic you know about is not the same as a topic endorsed by adults. When I was 17 I came home drunk as hell off Rumplemintz (can't even smell it now decades later). I was vomiting in the bathroom when my dad came in and asked if I was ok. I told him I had food poisoning and he said ok and asked if I needed anything. I said no and he left me to it. At the time I was thinking I had gotten away with a grand deception, but as an adult you know that bathroom reeked of booze and he absolutely knew what was going on. But if he had confronted me about being drunk and been ok with it would that not have encouraged the behavior? Part of growing up is testing boundaries and believing you got over on adults. There's a huge difference between that and adults actually excusing or endorsing that behavior.
You're equation here really implies you view being part of the LGBTQ+ community as immoral or somehow wrong.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
Quote:CLAIM: Target’s Pride collection features a bathing suit for kids that is labeled “tuck-friendly.”
AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. The “tuck-friendly” swimsuits are only offered in adult sizes, according to a spokesperson for the company and Target’s website. Kids’ swimsuits in the collection do not feature this label.
THE FACTS: Target’s seasonal collection of clothes for Pride month collection has been the subject of several misleading videos in recent weeks, with social media users claiming the retailer is selling “tuck-friendly” bathing suits designed for kids or in kids’ sizes. Many of the posts criticizing Target have also urged people to boycott the company, following similar threats and transphobic commentary from conservative social media personalities towards brands including Bud Light and Nike over promotional campaigns featuring transgender people. Posts criticizing Target shared photos or videos of either a one-piece swimsuit with a bright pink, orange, green and blue colorblock pattern, or black swim bottoms with colorful line stitches. Both feature a circular tag that reads, “Tuck-Friendly Construction,” and “Extra Crotch Coverage.”
“Did you know @Target also sells ‘tuck-friendly’ bathing suits for children in the Pride section? Well now you do,” reads one post sharing a photo of the tag on Twitter. The post has received more than 4,000 likes.
Another video on Instagram, which had more than 100,000 likes as of Monday, shows footage of the tag on the one-piece swimsuit, and claims that while it is not specifically in the kids’ section, it is available in kids’ sizes.
However, the swimsuits labeled “tuck-friendly” are only in adult sizes, and are not available in kids’ sizes, Kayla Castaneda, a spokesperson for Target, told The Associated Press.
Both the colorful one-piece and black swim bottoms seen in the photos and videos online are clearly labeled on Target’s website as adult swimsuits.
Both pages list the products as coming in “general adult sizing” and offer adult XS as the smallest size for sale.
“The ‘tuck-friendly’ swim suits are for adults only,” Castaneda said. The kids’ swimsuits in the Pride collection are not the same design or construction and do not have the same label, Castaneda confirmed.
At a Target in New York City’s downtown Brooklyn neighborhood that the AP visited on Monday, the same adult swimsuits shown on social media featured the “tuck-friendly” tag, while a kids’ black swimskirt for sale instead had a tag reading: “Thoughtfully Fit on Multiple Body Types and Gender Expressions.”
The Pride apparel for kids, adults and pets was located together at the front of the store, in an area often used for seasonal or limited-edition collections, and not in the children’s section. ___ This is part of AP’s effort to address widely shared misinformation, including work with outside companies and organizations to add factual context to misleading content that is circulating online. Learn more about fact-checking at AP.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(06-08-2023, 08:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Everywhere that I know of the curriculum for sex education is based on what is appropriate for the grade level. Lower grade levels talk about anatomy and family units. When you talk about family units, well, the idea of same-sex parents is going to be a thing. That doesn't mean that there needs to be discussion about what they do in the bedroom. So, unless I can see some evidence of them talking about anal sex with elementary schoolers I am not going to be up in arms over this.
As an aside watching "Shinny Happy People" and the effort for home schooling or "religious" teachings that eliminates sex education and then reinforces the parochial hierarchy in such a way that allows people to ACTUALLY groom and sexually assault children is more disturbing that I ever realized.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(06-08-2023, 08:33 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't have numbers for you regarding gay pride parades being attacked etc.
I doubt anyone does, because I doubt they exist in any meaningful form.
Quote:Regarding speakers at college, I think the students should have the right to protest speakers that they think spout hurtful rhetoric. I'm not aware of any speakers being attacked but it wouldn't surprise me.
It's not that uncommon. Riley Gains recently.
Quote:For some on the left, they believe those people's words are literally violence (and in some cases, I agree).
Disappointed to hear you say that, as, outside of direct incitement, words are not violence. It's that type of thinking that justifies violence as a response to words.
Quote:And I think the thing you're picking up on with the media is that one side is fighting for equal rights and the other is fighting against them (or that is the perception at the very least) and people generally view the former more favorably than the latter.
Nope! Fighting for trans-women to compete against biological women in sports is not equal rights for the biological women. Fighting for trans-women to be in women's spaces such as prisons or shelters is not equal rights for biological women. Your right to throw a punch ends at my nose.
(06-08-2023, 08:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Disappointed to hear you say that, as, outside of direct incitement, words are not violence. It's that type of thinking that justifies violence as a response to words.
I'm referring to stochastic terrorism. It is a high bar but it does exist.
Nope! Fighting for trans-women to compete against biological women in sports is not equal rights for the biological women. Fighting for trans-women to be in women's spaces such as prisons or shelters is not equal rights for biological women. Your right to throw a punch ends at my nose.
Those are issues, but the right-wing is most concerned with trans people's existence in general. If you believe in trans people's rights to exist but want stringent limits for their access to sports and shelters, that's one thing. The majority of right wing rhetoric is just disrespectful and dehumanizing.
(06-08-2023, 08:44 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I've been to many all-ages drag shows. The queens dance, have fun and express themselves. Everyone has a good time and no one is thinking about sex, except for those that oppose drag shows.
Scantily clad adults gyrating in front of children has no sexual connotation? You've rather exposed yourself on this one.
Quote:Are you equally as outraged when people take children to sporting events with "scantily clad" cheerleaders "gyrating" on the big screen for every child to see?
Are said cheerleaders within close proximity to children? Are children providing money to the cheerleaders?
Quote:"I think anyone but their parents teaching children about sex, sexuality or transgenderism is disturbing."
The response was towards your aclaiming this.
Quote:Again, you seem to be avoiding my questions? You asserted rather strongly that transgender ideology was being used to target children. Please define said ideology and give a specific example of that ideology and how it is targeting children. Thus far, you've only referenced anecdotal conversations that you find "disturbing".
I said ANY adult attempting to have the conversation with children is disturbing, not just transgender adults. So my point about your mischaracterization stands. Do you disagree? Are you yearning to discuss sexual topics with children not your own? Do you not see any problem with adults doing so?
Quote:People aren't scrambling to make children transgender. This is extremely outlandish and conspiratorial thinking. You have yet to identify an ideology; only your own opinions.
Bullshit. The recent explosion of supposedly transgender children shows this to be an utter falsehood.
In 2021, about 42,000 children and teens across the United States received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, nearly triple the number in 2017, according to data Komodo compiled for Reuters. Gender dysphoria is defined as the distress caused by a discrepancy between a person’s gender identity and the one assigned to them at birth.
Is this real gender dysphoria or social contagion. Even Bill Maher is calling bullshit on this.
I know The Hill is a far right site, but please bear with me.
(06-08-2023, 08:33 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm referring to stochastic terrorism. It is a high bar but it does exist.
Quite sincerely, miss me with that BS. Direct incitement is a thing and outside of that I don't want to hear it. This is clearly established law. Anyone can call Biden worse than Hitler, or Trump worse than Hitler, but if they don't call for direct violent action against them then the only person engaging in that action who is responsible for it is that person. To think otherwise is to rob adults of their agency, which is untenable in a free society.
Quote:Those are issues, but the right-wing is most concerned with trans people's existence in general. If you believe in trans people's rights to exist but want stringent limits for their access to sports and shelters, that's one thing. The majority of right wing rhetoric is just disrespectful and dehumanizing.
No, some people on the far right are thus concerned. I highly doubt that many right leaning people would care about transgender adults at all outside of the clearly delineated points already raised. Was there a huge backlash against Caitlyn Jenner? Did anyone care at all about Elliot Page? You didn't really start seeing a pushback until this started being pushed on children. There will always be extremists, on both sides, but framing this as a solely an extremist position is disingenuous.
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