Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[Dill]

(04-22-2024, 08:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Nah, he likes this thread just fine.

Scared of your monopoly being challenged?

And many are prepared to combat the virulent hatred coming from the "protestors".  Sorry, you're losing this one, and you're losing it bad.  Every single day more vile things are revealed about what's actually happening there.  You don't control the narrative anymore and it's becoming more and more obvious.  As I told Millhouse, this is ultimately a net positive.  The more exposure your side gets the better for everyone opposed to it. 

The guy who accuses me of antisemitism and now cheers "vile things" to come says I have a monopoly on hate?

What "narrative" did I "control"? Where?

"My side" is being exposed? 

What, have they executed unarmed civilians and destroyed cultural sites like graveyards?  Are they targeting aid workers?

Have you told Millhouse? I fear this is typical SSF "obvious," emotional, momentary, hyperbolic.

[Dill]

(04-22-2024, 07:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Nah, they've stolen enough aid trucks full of food from the general populace, they'll be fine.  

What's your source for this?

[Dill]

(04-22-2024, 09:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: I fully realize this will be too nuanced for the hardliners, but I found it an interesting read and a fairly good take on the entire situation with Israel right now.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-magazine/from-gaza-to-iran-the-netanyahu-government-is-endangering-israels-survival/0000018e-f25f-daad-a3de-fe7ff5790000

Lots of "mitigating" and "Hamas excusing" here.   Not the sort of thing you'll find in All Israel News.

But Harari is one of my favorite historians.

He's writing to Israelis, but US and European citizens should probably look closely at this part of his argument.
.........................................................................................................................................................................................
Netanyahu's war cabinet has lost control and could lead Israel into a regional war
Does Netanyahu really think Israel can take on Iran alone?

Those who rush to blame antisemitism for all our troubles should remember the first weeks of the war, when Israel enjoyed unprecedented international support. The American president, the French president, the German chancellor, the prime minister of Britain, and a long list of additional prime ministers, foreign ministers and other dignitaries visited Israel, and expressed their support for it in its fight to defeat and disarm Hamas. International aid came in the shape of weapons as well as words. Enormous amounts of military equipment were rushed to Israel. Arms exports from Germany to Israel, for example, rose 10-fold. Without that materiél, we could not have conducted the war in Gaza and Lebanon, and prepare for conflicts with Iran and its other proxies. Meanwhile, in the waters of the Red Sea and Indian Ocean, an international fleet assembled to fight the Houthis and keep open the commercial lane leading to Eilat and the Suez Canal.

Of equal importance, during most of its previous wars, Israel had to fight against the clock, too, since its allies forced it to agree to cease-fires within days or weeks. But given the murderous nature of Hamas, this time its allies gave Israel free rein for many months to conquer Gaza, liberate the Israeli hostages, change the situation in the Strip according to Israel's best judgment, and create a new order in the region.

The Netanyahu government wasted this historic opportunity, and also wasted the bravery and dedication of the soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces. The Netanyahu government failed to exploit its battlefield victories to reach an agreement on the release of all the hostages and to advance an alternative political order in Gaza. Instead, it decided to knowingly inflict on Gaza an unnecessary humanitarian disaster – and in so doing, inflicted on Israel an unnecessary political disaster. One by one, our allies have become horrified by what is happening in Gaza, and one by one, they are calling for an immediate cease-fire, and even for a weapons embargo on Israel. Moderate Arab countries whose interests dovetail with ours, and who are afraid of Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas, have found it difficult to cooperate with us while we devastate Gaza. The Netanyahu government has managed to derail even our relations with the United States, as if we have an alternative source for arms and diplomatic backing. The younger generations in the United States, and around the world now see Israel as a racist and violent country that expels millions from their homes, starves entire populations, and kills many thousands of civilians for no better reason than revenge. The results will be felt not only in the coming days and months, but for decades into the future. Even during the worst moments of October 7, Hamas was nowhere near vanquishing Israel. But the ruinous policy of the Netanyahu government following October 7 has placed Israel in existential danger.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-23-2024, 05:26 PM)Dill Wrote: The guy who accuses me of antisemitism and now cheers "vile things" to come says I have a monopoly on hate?

It's interesting, and not in a good way, that you consistently keep bringing the antisemitism accusation up after I promised not to talk about it anymore.  It's almost like you get off on feeling persecuted.  Or perhaps there's another motive?  As for "cheering vile things to come", yes, I am thrilled that the mask is fully slipping off the people on your side of this issue.  While I have no doubt there are well intentioned people on your side there is a very significant number of vile bigots.  I see no significant attempts by your side to distance yourself from them either.  

[Dill]

(04-23-2024, 06:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's interesting, and not in a good way, that you consistently keep bringing the antisemitism accusation up after I promised not to talk about it anymore.  It's almost like you get off on feeling persecuted.  Or perhaps there's another motive?  As for "cheering vile things to come", yes, I am thrilled that the mask is fully slipping off the people on your side of this issue.  While I have no doubt there are well intentioned people on your side there is a very significant number of vile bigots.  I see no significant attempts by your side to distance yourself from them either.  

It's interesting that you just accused me of having a monopoly on hate, 
after constantly saying hateful things to me and expressing your own hatred of Hamas.
And you couldn't even get me to call ISIS  "animals," as you do.

That projection is a "motive" for bringing it up. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-23-2024, 08:45 PM)Dill Wrote: It's interesting that you just accused me of having a monopoly on hate, 
after constantly saying hateful things to me and expressing your own hatred of Hamas.
And you couldn't even get me to call ISIS  "animals," as you do.

That projection is a "motive" for bringing it up. 

Dude, who wouldn't hate animals who wantonly murder civilians, including the elderly and children, gang rape women and kidnap infants?  

[Dill]

(04-23-2024, 09:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dude, who wouldn't hate animals who wantonly murder civilians, including the elderly and children, gang rape women and kidnap infants?  

Maybe someone who, as a matter of principle, doesn't call other humans "animals," selectively or otherwise?
 
So why would you accuse someone who embraces that principle, refusing hate, of holding a monopoly of hate?

You seem wholly unfamiliar with this ethical position. I'm sure I'm not the only one who holds it in this forum.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-23-2024, 09:25 PM)Dill Wrote: Maybe someone who, as a matter of principle, doesn't call other humans "animals," selectively or otherwise?
 
So why would you accuse someone who embraces that principle, refusing hate, of holding a monopoly of hate?

You seem wholly unfamiliar with this ethical position. I'm sure I'm not the only one who holds it in this forum.

What an amazing opportunity for you to do a little self-reflection/analyzation.  Why would a person of such character hijack a thread about Jewish hostages, quipping, "I like this thread fine" when confronted about said hijacking?  Why would such a person have not a single post about the actions of Hamas in a thread about the current Hamas/Israel conflict?  Why would such a person take the word of Hamas as truth in every post in which it is relevant, yet continually accuse Israel of being untruthful?  Why would such a person ignore the obvious hate from people on their side of this conflict while laser focusing on the other side in every post?


I look forward to your deep dive into your own motivations and beliefs.  I have no doubt it will be enlightening.

[Dill]

(04-23-2024, 10:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: What an amazing opportunity for you to do a little self-reflection/analyzation.  Why would a person of such character hijack a thread about Jewish hostages, quipping, "I like this thread fine" when confronted about said hijacking?  Why would such a person have not a single post about the actions of Hamas in a thread about the current Hamas/Israel conflict?  Why would such a person take the word of Hamas as truth in every post in which it is relevant, yet continually accuse Israel of being untruthful?  Why would such a person ignore the obvious hate from people on their side of this conflict while laser focusing on the other side in every post?

I look forward to your deep dive into your own motivations and beliefs.  I have no doubt it will be enlightening.

Such distortion. 

I didn't "highjack" a thread about Jewish hostages. You were fine with people moving on to other topics on that thread, and joined them yourself.
But you weren't fine with my posts and questions about Hamas. I said I liked that thread fine so you'd know you couldn't censor me off it for views
disagreeing with yours. 

I've already explained why "such a person" would not have etc. 

I don't "take the word of Hamas as truth" Jeezus.  It's not about "ignoring hate" but explaining where it comes from. 

And it's especially about not treating hate, an effect, as a cause.  It's the explaining you don't like, just as I don't like repetitive denunciation. 
Hence the accusation and distortion of other's views.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-23-2024, 03:21 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Disturbing reports continue to emerge about mass graves in Gaza in which Palestinian victims were reportedly found stripped naked with their hands tied, prompting renewed concerns about possible war crimes amid ongoing Israeli airstrikes, the UN human rights office, OHCHR, said on Tuesday.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876

This strongly appears to be a Hamas hoax.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-rejects-baseless-claim-it-dug-mass-graves-at-gaza-hospital-analysts-also-doubt-charge/

Who would have thought that terrorists who engage in mass rape, murder and kidnapping would lie about something like this?  I for one am shocked and amazed.

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-23-2024, 09:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dude, who wouldn't hate animals who wantonly murder civilians, including the elderly and children, gang rape women and kidnap infants?  

I'm pretty sure that's a tie right now. IDF has absolutely nothing to envy to Hamas in a standpoint of cruelty. 

BTW, it's both right wing of their political spectrum. People acting through their own sacred book, the only thing that differ is the book. 

It's the same coin just different sides. 

And please don't include animals in your hatespeech, I like animals way more than human ultra conservatives. 

[GMDino]

(04-25-2024, 07:04 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I'm pretty sure that's a tie right now. IDF has absolutely nothing to envy to Hamas in a standpoint of cruelty. 

BTW, it's both right wing of their political spectrum. People acting through their own sacred book, the only thing that differ is the book. 

It's the same coin just different sides. 

And please don't include animals in your hatespeech, I like animals way more than human ultra conservatives. 

And if we can't trust Netanyahu to never lie or cover up something who can we trust? 

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-25-2024, 09:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: And if we can't trust Netanyahu to never lie or cover up something who can we trust? 

Actually one of our former president said this to him face to face ( and Chirac was a conservative ) : I don't trust any word coming from your mouth. 

Bibi has been the worst thing to happen to Israel for a long long time. 

But who is suprised ? Right wings nuts never search for solutions, they only search someone to blame. 

And they lead their people to war. EVERY F*****G TIME.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-25-2024, 07:04 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I'm pretty sure that's a tie right now. IDF has absolutely nothing to envy to Hamas in a standpoint of cruelty. 

BTW, it's both right wing of their political spectrum. People acting through their own sacred book, the only thing that differ is the book. 

It's the same coin just different sides. 

And please don't include animals in your hatespeech, I like animals way more than human ultra conservatives. 

Hmm, with posts like this I wonder why I keep pointing out that the left leaning posters continuously attempt to draw direct comparisons between a terrorist organization and the professional military of a democratic nation.  This is called mitigating, you are literally mitigating the actions of a terrorist organization.  It's abhorrent.  They are not two sides of the same coin, they're not even both coins.

Also, spare me your insipid "hate speech" allegation.  Correctly pointing out the actions of one of the most vile human organizations on the planet is not hate speech, it's accurate.  Sanctimony seems to be a merit badge for you kids.

(04-25-2024, 09:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: And if we can't trust Netanyahu to never lie or cover up something who can we trust? 

Yes, ignore that this specious allegation of a IDF mass grave has been proven almost certainly false, focus on the fact a politician lies sometimes.  You guys can't even own when you post Hamas propaganda like the IDF bombing a hospital or a mass grave caused by the IDF.  If Hamas isn't paying you guys they should start, you're definitely busting your ass carrying water for them

[Millhouse]

This is on Youtube shorts. His name is Mosab Yousef, a son of a Hamas founder who later then defected to Israel helping them thwart terrorist acts by Hamas Palestinians, and then eventually received asylum in the U.S. in 2010 after it was shown he had no ties to Hamas and instead was helping to thwart them. (I hope that's all correct) Anyway this is an excerpt with him on the Dr. Phil show less than a month ago, and there were two-Pro Palestinian/Hamas supporters there as well.

He is a fascinating person to say the least, and I would say quite complex in his evolution as a person. Anyways thoughts on his takes on his former native homeland where he apparently has some insight on, at least I am guessing way more than most out there. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tBKqT58X6Fg?feature=share

[HarleyDog]

(04-25-2024, 01:02 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This is on Youtube shorts. His name is Mosab Yousef, a son of a Hamas founder who later then defected to Israel helping them thwart terrorist acts by Hamas Palestinians, and then eventually received asylum in the U.S. in 2010 after it was shown he had no ties to Hamas and instead was helping to thwart them. (I hope that's all correct) Anyway this is an excerpt with him on the Dr. Phil show less than a month ago, and there were two-Pro Palestinian/Hamas supporters there as well.

He is a fascinating person to say the least, and I would say quite complex in his evolution as a person. Anyways thoughts on his takes on his former native homeland where he apparently has some insight on, at least I am guessing way more than most out there. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tBKqT58X6Fg?feature=share

Thanks for this. Going to look up the show when I get off work.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-25-2024, 01:02 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This is on Youtube shorts. His name is Mosab Yousef, a son of a Hamas founder who later then defected to Israel helping them thwart terrorist acts by Hamas Palestinians, and then eventually received asylum in the U.S. in 2010 after it was shown he had no ties to Hamas and instead was helping to thwart them. (I hope that's all correct) Anyway this is an excerpt with him on the Dr. Phil show less than a month ago, and there were two-Pro Palestinian/Hamas supporters there as well.

He is a fascinating person to say the least, and I would say quite complex in his evolution as a person. Anyways thoughts on his takes on his former native homeland where he apparently has some insight on, at least I am guessing way more than most out there. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tBKqT58X6Fg?feature=share

Dude went scorched earth on those apologists.  But what does he know, his father was only a founding member of Hamas.

[HarleyDog]

(04-25-2024, 02:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dude went scorched earth on those apologists.  But what does he know, his father was only a founding member of Hamas.

This is what I love most about being an older adult. I remember when I was young and thought I knew everything and tried to buck the system just to feel like I had a voice. When in reality, I didn't know shit. Much like the youth today. LGBTQ supports Palestine and Hamas, but don't realize they would be put to death by the very people they support for their lifestyles and beliefs. Women support too, when in reality if they were there they would be treated like dogs. Ha, and they chant death to America? Our educational system has let us down. 

[GMDino]

(04-25-2024, 02:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This is what I love most about being an older adult. I remember when I was young and thought I knew everything and tried to buck the system just to feel like I had a voice. When in reality, I didn't know shit. Much like the youth today. LGBTQ supports Palestine and Hamas, but don't realize they would be put to death by the very people they support for their lifestyles and beliefs. Women support too, when in reality if they were there they would be treated like dogs. Ha, and they chant death to America? Our educational system has let us down. 

It's been my observation that women and other groups support the CIVILAINS in Palestine...not Hamas...as they believe they know what how feels to be part of a repressed group.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-25-2024, 02:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: This is what I love most about being an older adult. I remember when I was young and thought I knew everything and tried to buck the system just to feel like I had a voice. When in reality, I didn't know shit. Much like the youth today. LGBTQ supports Palestine and Hamas, but don't realize they would be put to death by the very people they support for their lifestyles and beliefs. Women support too, when in reality if they were there they would be treated like dogs. Ha, and they chant death to America? Our educational system has let us down. 

It's rather common to have disdain for what you are used to as a teenager/young adult.  "Knowing better" than the old people who ruined everything before you came along.  It's also not odd for those people to latch on tom something like this movement as it gives them a sense of purpose, solidarity and power.  What is odd is how illiberal the side the "liberals" are protesting for.

(04-25-2024, 03:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's been my observation that women and other groups support the CIVILAINS in Palestine...not Hamas...as they believe they know what how feels to be part of a repressed group.

Yeah, the son of the founder of Hamas, and a former Hamas member, rather addresses that in the above clip.  Did you watch it?  Or are you still not answering questions?