Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[GMDino]

(04-02-2024, 02:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, interestingly, I was listening to one of my news podcasts while out for a walk and they made the claim that the vehicles in the convoy that was attacked were clearly marked with the group's logo, were leaving their warehouse, and their route had been reviewed and approved by the Israeli military prior to their departure. I am not saying it was intentional, but if it wasn't this was a HUGE **** up on their part if those claims are true.

And all I said was until they finish investigating themselves it looks bad and it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[CKwi88]

(04-02-2024, 02:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, interestingly, I was listening to one of my news podcasts while out for a walk and they made the claim that the vehicles in the convoy that was attacked were clearly marked with the group's logo, were leaving their warehouse, and their route had been reviewed and approved by the Israeli military prior to their departure. I am not saying it was intentional, but if it wasn't this was a HUGE **** up on their part if those claims are true.

They missed the big pot.

[GMDino]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-02-2024-9bdf66771b62af37d85a2800f71c0e6c

Quote:BY WAFAA SHURAFA AND SAMY MAGDY
Updated 2:09 PM EDT, April 2, 2024
Share

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — An international charity suspended delivery of food to starving Palestinians on Tuesday, a day after an Israeli airstrike killed seven aid workers from World Central Kitchen who were trying to ease the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
Ships still laden with some 240 tons of aid from the charity that arrived Monday turned back from Gaza, according to Cyprus, which has played a key role in trying to establish a sea route to bring food to the territory. Israel has allowed only a trickle of aid into devastated northern Gaza, where experts say famine is imminent.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged that the country’s forces had carried out the “unintended strike ... on innocent people.” He said officials were looking into the strike and would work to ensure it did not happen again.


World Central Kitchen said it had coordinated with the Israeli military over the movement of the cars carrying the workers as they left northern Gaza late Monday. Footage of the aftermath showed a vehicle with the charity’s logo printed across its roof to make it identifiable from the air. The projectile punched a large hole through the roof. Two other vehicles in the convoy were incinerated and mangled, indicating multiple hits.

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A man displays blood-stained British, Polish, and Australian passports after an Israeli airstrike, in Deir al-Balah, Gaza Strip, April 1, 2024. (AP Photo/Abdel Kareem Hana)


Other footage showed the bodies, several wearing protective gear with the charity’s logo, at a hospital in the central Gaza town of Deir al-Balah. Those killed include three British nationals, an Australian, a Polish national, an American-Canadian dual citizen and a Palestinian, according to hospital records.

The killings threatened to bring repercussions on multiple levels. The dead were citizens of some of Israel’s closest allies, which could antagonize them at a time when the country has few friends amid mounting international criticism of its nearly 6-month-old offensive in Gaza.

The strike could also set back efforts by the U.S. and other countries to open a maritime corridor for aid from Cyprus. World Central Kitchen, a food charity founded by celebrity chef José Andrés, was key to the new route.

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Cypriot President Nikos Christodoulides said Tuesday that ship deliveries would continue. Israel has barred UNRWA, the main U.N. agency in Gaza, from making deliveries to the north, and other aid groups say sending truck convoys north has been extremely difficult because of the military’s failure to either grant permission or ensure safe passage.

The strike also underscored what critics have called the Israeli military’s disregard for civilian casualties in its Gaza campaign, which it says is aimed at destroying Hamas after its Oct. 7 attacks on Israel.

[color=var(--color-module-title)]ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR

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[color=var(--color-promo-text)]As Israel withdraws from raid on Shifa Hospital, accounts from military and witnesses differ wildly[/color]
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[color=var(--color-primary-text)]
[color=var(--color-promo-text)]Israel clears way to expel Al Jazeera. Channel says Netanyahu’s incitement claim is a dangerous lie[/color]
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[color=var(--color-primary-text)]
[color=var(--color-promo-text)]Israeli strike on Iran’s consulate in Syria killed 2 generals and 5 other officers, Iran says[/color]
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Throughout the war, Israeli forces have shown readiness to inflict widespread destruction when they believe a suspected militant is present or when ground troops see a tactical need to strike.[/color]

Homes with families sheltering inside are leveled by strikes almost daily. The military has struck ambulances and aid vehicles, saying that armed fighters were in them.


In February, troops and a tank opened fire when they felt threatened as thousands of Palestinians crowded to take aid off trucks, and more than 100 people were killed. The military said it did not fire at the convoy and that some victims died in stampeding.

More than 32,900 Palestinians have been killed in the war, around two-thirds of them women and children, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between civilians and combatants in its count. Israel blames Hamas for civilian deaths, saying it operates in populated areas.

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The body of a person wearing a World Central Kitchen t-shirt lies on the ground at the Al Aqsa hospital in Deir al-Balah, Gaza Strip, April 1, 2024. (AP Photo/Abdel Kareem Hana)


The U.S., Britain, Poland and Australia called for an investigation or an explanation from Israel over the aid workers’ deaths. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant ordered the forming of a “profession team” to investigate the strike and the opening of a joint situation room enabling coordination between the military and aid groups.[/color]

Andrés — whose charity operates in several countries wracked by wars or natural disasters — said he was “heartbroken” by the deaths of the staffers.

“The Israeli government needs to stop this indiscriminate killing. It needs to stop restricting humanitarian aid, stop killing civilians and aid workers, and stop using food as a weapon,” he wrote on X.


Anera, a Washington-based aid group that has been operating in the Palestinian territories for decades, said that in the wake of the strike it was taking the “unprecedented” step of pausing its own operations in Gaza, where it had been helping to provide around 150,000 meals daily.


“The escalating risks associated with aid delivery leave us with no choice,” it said in a statement.


Jamie McGoldrick, the United Nations humanitarian coordinator for the Palestinian territories, said the strike was “not an isolated incident,” noting that around 200 humanitarian workers have been killed in the war.

“This is nearly three times the death toll recorded in any single conflict in a year,” he said.


The war began when Hamas-led militants stormed into southern Israel in a surprise attack on Oct. 7, killing some 1,200 people and taking around 250 hostage. Israel responded with one of the deadliest and most destructive offensives in recent history.


Tensions have soared across the Middle East, and an apparent Israeli strike on Iran’s consulate in the Syrian capital, Damascus, on Monday has ratcheted them up even further. Iran and its allies have vowed to respond to the strike, which killed two Iranian generals.


Monday’s strike on the aid workers came hours after a new delivery with some 400 tons of food and supplies organized by World Central Kitchen and the United Arab Emirates arrived in three ships from Cyprus, following a pilot run last month.


Around 100 tons were unloaded before the charity suspended operations, and the rest was being taken back to Cyprus, Cypriot Foreign Ministry spokesman Theodoros Gotsis said.


The dead in the strike included Zomi Frankcom, 44, of Melbourne, Australia, and Damian Soból of Poland, the two countries’ governments confirmed.

Two other Israeli strikes late Monday killed at least 16 Palestinians, including eight children, in Rafah, where Israel has vowed to expand its ground operation despite the presence of some 1.4 million Palestinians, most of whom have sought refuge from fighting elsewhere.


One strike hit a family home, killing 10 people, including five children, according to hospital records. Another hit a gathering near a mosque, killing at least six people, including three children.


Aid groups have repeatedly called for a humanitarian cease-fire, saying it’s the only way to reach people in need. The United States, Qatar and Egypt have spent months trying to broker such a pause and a hostage release, but the indirect talks between Israel and Hamas remain bogged down.

Hamas is believed to be holding some 100 hostages and the remains of 30 others after freeing most of the rest during a cease-fire in November in exchange for the release of Palestinians imprisoned by Israel.
___
Magdy reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Monika Scislowska in Warsaw, Poland; Rod McGuirk in Melbourne, Australia; and Menelaos Hadjicostis in Nicosia, Cyprus, contributed to this report.
___
Find more of AP’s coverage at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war

[url=https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war][/url]

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-02-2024, 02:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, interestingly, I was listening to one of my news podcasts while out for a walk and they made the claim that the vehicles in the convoy that was attacked were clearly marked with the group's logo, were leaving their warehouse, and their route had been reviewed and approved by the Israeli military prior to their departure. I am not saying it was intentional, but if it wasn't this was a HUGE **** up on their part if those claims are true.

Huge clustereff to be sure.  During the first Gulf War an A-10 group attacked a UK armored column traveling the correct route, with roof top identifiers in the UK theatre of operations.  Killed a bunch of guys and the pilots where devastated.  And that occurred in as ideal a battlefield as one could want in regard to preventing blue on blue incidents.  Given how successful the Hamas propaganda has been in the West I just have a hard time believing Israel would lean into so heavily.  And that's not even considering soldiers not wanting to slaughter non-combatants.

(04-02-2024, 02:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: To be fair, I consider the allied forces to be responsible for all of this, because they created this situation and then just said "you all work it out." This was an inevitability thanks to colonialist asshattery.

I'd tend to agree, but at this point does it matter?  That toothpaste has been out of the tube for over seventy years.  It also does nothing to address the insanely lopsided view expressed in this thread.

(04-02-2024, 03:01 PM)GMDino Wrote:


And all I said was until they finish investigating themselves it looks bad and it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

That gif is shockingly appropriate for you.  Also, you're now the one misquoting yourself.

[Arturo Bandini]

The distance between each bombed WCK & the other shows beyond any doubt how the IDF took their time to deliberately & surgically eliminate the entire crew. The 2nd car was bombed after it rescued the survivors of the 1st, & the 3rd after it rescued the survivors from the 2nd!

Haaretz reports here how the IDF bombed the 3 vehicles methodically, each after it returned to rescue survivors from the previous vehicle. All cars were clearly marked & in a safe zone




It was an accident they said : Which occured 3 times in a row.

Bring these people in The Hague.

[Belsnickel]

There was a discussion on one of my podcasts about all of this as a "tale of two strikes." There is this contrast between the strikes on the WCK vehicles and the Iranian embassy. The strike on the embassy was precision. It killed only those targeted. The strikes in Gaza were, giving the benefit of the doubt, careless. A retired official who used to take part in planning these sorts of strikes described the team that handled the Iranian strike as seasoned veterans taking an action with months of planning, whereas the strikes in Gaza were performed by relative novices, likely tired and without as much prior planning.

That person explained the difference in tactics in that manner. While this makes sense and goes towards it being unintentional, it also explains why so many civilians, journalists, and aid workers have been killed by Israel during this.

[GMDino]

(04-03-2024, 10:28 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There was a discussion on one of my podcasts about all of this as a "tale of two strikes." There is this contrast between the strikes on the WCK vehicles and the Iranian embassy. The strike on the embassy was precision. It killed only those targeted. The strikes in Gaza were, giving the benefit of the doubt, careless. A retired official who used to take part in planning these sorts of strikes described the team that handled the Iranian strike as seasoned veterans taking an action with months of planning, whereas the strikes in Gaza were performed by relative novices, likely tired and without as much prior planning.

That person explained the difference in tactics in that manner. While this makes sense and goes towards it being unintentional, it also explains why so many civilians, journalists, and aid workers have been killed by Israel during this.

If everything about the workers route being pre-planned and approved is true and they still "made a mistake" because of the less seasoned team that says a lot about how prepared Israel is for a war.  

WCK is saying they believe an Israeli sniper fired at them earlier too.

I still say Netanyahu doesn't care one iota about killing civilians while this is going on.  This all falls back on him from his propping up of Hamas, to ignoring warnings about the October attack to everything that has happened since.

And I'm aware that Hamas doesn't either. That doesn't make either side right.

And one can say unintentional or intentional it's still bad and will not stop.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-03-2024, 10:28 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There was a discussion on one of my podcasts about all of this as a "tale of two strikes." There is this contrast between the strikes on the WCK vehicles and the Iranian embassy. The strike on the embassy was precision. It killed only those targeted. The strikes in Gaza were, giving the benefit of the doubt, careless. A retired official who used to take part in planning these sorts of strikes described the team that handled the Iranian strike as seasoned veterans taking an action with months of planning, whereas the strikes in Gaza were performed by relative novices, likely tired and without as much prior planning.

That person explained the difference in tactics in that manner. While this makes sense and goes towards it being unintentional, it also explains why so many civilians, journalists, and aid workers have been killed by Israel during this.

Makes complete sense.  Not every member of the military is going to be your A team (no pun).  Probably something like the difference between the active duty US forces and the reservist/ national guard troops in the gulf wars.  Your more skilled forces are not going to be REMF's.

(04-03-2024, 11:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: If everything about the workers route being pre-planned and approved is true and they still "made a mistake" because of the less seasoned team that says a lot about how prepared Israel is for a war.

You once chided me for pretending to be a foreign policy expert and now you're making points like this, as if you have even the slightest semblance of how things work in the military.  Impressive inconsistency that. 

Quote:WCK is saying they believe an Israeli sniper fired at them earlier too.

I still say Netanyahu doesn't care one iota about killing civilians while this is going on.  This all falls back on him from his propping up of Hamas, to ignoring warnings about the October attack to everything that has happened since.

Uh oh, someone just blamed Netanyahu for this war, better do some quick damage control in our next sentence.

Quote:And I'm aware that Hamas doesn't either.  That doesn't make either side right.

Actually, it does.  One side deliberately kills civilians and puts them in harms way, the other does not.  This is yet more attempts by you guys to draw an equivalence between Hamas and Israel as if they are equally bad actors.  It's revolting.

Quote:And one can say unintentional or intentional it's still bad and will not stop.

Do you sincerely see no moral difference in an intentional and an unintentional civilian casualty?  You tend to duck these types of direct questions, but this is important.  Is there really no moral difference between the two in your eyes?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

https://x.com/YWNReporter/status/1775229241027657743?s=20

John Kirby states that the State Department has not found a single instance of Israel violating international/humanitarian law during this conflict, including this most recent incident.  This is going to cause some consternation for some here.  Either the Biden administration is lying or their entire posting history on this war has been hot garbage.

[GMDino]

(04-03-2024, 12:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Makes complete sense.  Not every member of the military is going to be your A team (no pun).  Probably something like the difference between the active duty US forces and the reservist/ national guard troops in the gulf wars.  Your more skilled forces are not going to be REMF's.



You once chided me for pretending to be a foreign policy expert and now you're making points like this, as if you have even the slightest semblance of how things work in the military.  Impressive inconsistency that. 



Uh oh, someone just blamed Netanyahu for this war, better do some quick damage control in our next sentence.



Actually, it does.  One side deliberately kills civilians and puts them in harms way, the other does not.  This is yet more attempts by you guys to draw an equivalence between Hamas and Israel as if they are equally bad actors.  It's revolting.



Do you sincerely see no moral difference in an intentional and an unintentional civilian casualty?  You tend to duck these types of direct questions, but this is important.  Is there really no moral difference between the two in your eyes?

I am impressed by your ability to take everything I say and make it something else.

I don't have cya for anything.  I've been very clear that I think Netanyahu is a major problem in this entire situation...but obviously not the only one.

I'm not 100% convinced that BOTH sides are not deliberately killing civilians and putting them in harms way. Israel told people to move south...and then bombed them there.  Israel has bombed hospitals because they say one Hamas leader was there.  They know there will be civilian casualties and say "Eh, war...ya know".

Does that mean they are "equally" as bad as each other?  Of course not.  Any idiot would know that.  What it means is Israel does bad things too and seems to not only not care but gets upset that anyone would question them.

I never claimed to be an expert...I voiced my opinion that if the Israeli army is incapable of not bombing aide workers that have been cleared by the Israeli army they have some serious issues.

I want to give Israel the moral high ground...but they keep digging down further and further on their own.

All around the world, even within Israel there is waning support for Netanyahu's actions.  Are they all wrong?  

(I also realize this more about you not liking me so my opinion, no matter who agrees, will be seen as wrong and "repulsive"...lol.)

[GMDino]

It's crazy that it took the killing of some foreigners to make Israel and the US say "Sorry about that.  Big accident." rather than the thousands upon thousands of people killed before then.

Maybe because they accidentally bombed three separate vehicles that were a mile or more apart?  Is that three oopsies/accidents or just one?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-03-2024, 02:02 PM)GMDino Wrote: I am impressed by your ability to take everything I say and make it something else.

Using your own argument against you, nothing more

Quote:I don't have cya for anything.  I've been very clear that I think Netanyahu is a major problem in this entire situation...but obviously not the only one.

Yes, as you've made numerous posts about him, not so much about Hamas or their enablers though.

Quote:I'm not 100% convinced that BOTH sides are not deliberately killing civilians and putting them in harms way. Israel told people to move south...and then bombed them there.  Israel has bombed hospitals because they say one Hamas leader was there.  They know there will be civilian casualties and say "Eh, war...ya know".

According to the Biden State Department Israel has not committed a single war crime.  Hamas, not so much, they proudly broadcast theirs.  So that pretty much shoots your position in the foot.

Quote:Does that mean they are "equally" as bad as each other?  Of course not.  Any idiot would know that.  What it means is Israel does bad things too and seems to not only not care but gets upset that anyone would question them.

Well, using your own words your buddy is that "idiot" as he has directly stated exactly that.  In fact he claimed the IDF was actually worse.

Quote:I never claimed to be an expert...I voiced my opinion that if the Israeli army is incapable of not bombing aide workers that have been cleared by the Israeli army they have some serious issues.

I never claimed to be an expert on foreign policy either, that didn't stop you from making a snide comment about my being one.  You complain a lot about people taking shots, but seem to not realize when you do the exact same thing.

Quote:I want to give Israel the moral high ground...but they keep digging down further and further on their own.

No, you don't, and your posts reflect that.  As I noted earlier, you have not made a single post about Hamas and their actions in this thread.  Not one.  You include them as an aside every so often, but every single post you've made is about Israeli action.  Also, according to the Biden State Department Israel has committed no war crimes, and they are closely monitoring.

Quote:All around the world, even within Israel there is waning support for Netanyahu's actions.  Are they all wrong?  

Yes, Hamas's tactic is working like a charm, I've stated that several times in this thread.

Quote:(I also realize this more about you not liking me so my opinion, no matter who agrees, will be seen as wrong and "repulsive"...lol.)

You say this all the time, yet I disagree with many people amicably.  Maybe its not just me?

[GMDino]

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Using your own argument against you, nothing more

Your version of what I say and what other say is all it is.

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, as you've made numerous posts about him, not so much about Hamas or their enablers though.

How many posts would I have to make to meet your exacting standards of fairness? Simply acknowledging it doesn't seem to be enough for you.

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: According to the Biden State Department Israel has not committed a single war crime.  Hamas, not so much, they proudly broadcast theirs.  So that pretty much shoots your position in the foot.

Oh dear! The US is standing up for it's ally?!?! Wow.

All seriousness aside Israel does at least say "sorry! oops!"

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, using your own words your buddy is that "idiot" as he has directly stated exactly that.  In fact he claimed the IDF was actually worse.

Why must you bring others into it? You either trying to run down people or bring other posters in to show how agreeable you can be. This isn't about them.

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I never claimed to be an expert on foreign policy either, that didn't stop you from making a snide comment about my being one.  You complain a lot about people taking shots, but seem to not realize when you do the exact same thing.

Sorry I hurt your feelings if I suggested that folks giving absolute opinions as facts weren't as knowledgeable as they might claim to be. Since I regularly admit I don't know everything maybe I look at it differently than folks who have to "right" all the time?

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, you don't, and your posts reflect that.  As I noted earlier, you have not made a single post about Hamas and their actions in this thread.  Not one.  You include them as an aside every so often, but every single post you've made is about Israeli action.  Also, according to the Biden State Department Israel has committed no war crimes, and they are closely monitoring.

Ah...you know what I "really" mean...again.

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, Hamas's tactic is working like a charm, I've stated that several times in this thread.

The tactic where Israel continues to kill civilians and bomb homes and hospitals? Yeah Hamas is really doing a lot to swing the world view.

Is it not even slightly possible that Israel has made a misstep in their approach to this six months of self-defense? In a way that might make people feel like Netanyahu is going too far? Of is that impossible because Hamas started it?

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You say this all the time, yet I disagree with many people amicably.  Maybe its not just me?

You know exactly why you dislike me personally. You're wrong about and have been since the first time you said it. I'm assuming it's just ego now as to why you can't let it go. Unless I post something you already agreed with 100% you'll find my response to point out anything you can as "wrong". At least this time you stayed mostly on topic of the thread. And, again, you'll pull other posters in to the conversation. I wonder if they get tired of being used that way?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-03-2024, 04:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: How many posts would I have to make to meet your exacting standards of fairness?  Simply acknowledging it doesn't seem to be enough for you.

You could start with one.

Quote:Oh dear!  The US is standing up for it's ally?!?!  Wow.  

All seriousness aside Israel does at least say "sorry!  oops!"

Oh wait, didn't you post about a UN resolution in which the US didn't do that?  It seemed rather important to you then.  Are you saying that the US is lying?

Quote:Why must you bring others into it?  You either trying to run down people or bring other posters in to show how agreeable you can be.  This isn't about them.

You claimed no one but an idiot would claim that.  Dill claimed exactly that in this very thread.  Seems rather relevant, regardless of who made the claim.

Quote:The tactic where Israel continues to kill civilians and bomb homes and hospitals?   Yeah Hamas is really doing a lot to swing the world view.

Bombing a hospital not being used for military purposes by the enemy is a war crime.  Biden's State Department already stated Israel has committed no war crimes.  Why do you refuse to believe them?   Is Biden untrustworthy to you?  Is Hamas a more honest broker of facts?

Quote:Is it not even slightly possible that Israel has made a misstep in their approach to this six months of self-defense?  In a way that might make people feel like Netanyahu is going too far?  Of is that impossible because Hamas started it?

Gee, seeing as I've said they have numerous times in this very thread I would say, yeah it's possible.  Like I said in another thread you guys literally read nothing that is actually written.  You have a narrative and you just plow ahead.

Quote:You know exactly why you dislike me personally.  You're wrong about and have been since the first time you said it.  I'm assuming it's just ego now as to why you can't let it go.  Unless I post something you already agreed with 100% you'll find my response to point out anything you can as "wrong".  At least this time you stayed mostly on topic of the thread. And, again, you'll pull other posters in to the conversation.  I wonder if they get tired of being used that way?

No, you actually don't know why I dislike you, because you've been told exactly why and you refuse to believe it.  Also, I cannot pull anyone into anything.  People either choose to respond or they don't.

[Arturo Bandini]

Those 7 aid workers were not the 1st. It just brings up the number to 196.

[GMDino]

How could this go wrong?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-urges-knesset-to-pass-law-allowing-shuttering-of-al-jazeera/

Quote:Law allowing government to temporarily shut down Al Jazeera in Israel passed by Knesset
Legislation passed 71 to 10 gives PM and communications minister temporary powers to shut down foreign news networks deemed threatening to national security for 45-day periods
By [/url]SAM SOKOL, 
FOLLOW

[url=https://www.timesofisrael.com/writers/jeremy-sharon/]JEREMY SHARON 
FOLLOW

and REUTERS1 April 2024, 4:44 pmUpdated at 8:16 pm


The Knesset approved on Monday evening the so-called Al Jazeera law, giving the government temporary powers to prevent foreign news networks from operating in Israel if they are deemed by the security services to be harming national security.


The law passed 71 to 10 in its second and third readings in the Knesset plenum.


Communications Minister Shlomo Karhi, who spearheaded the effort to pass the law, vowed immediately after the final vote that the Qatari-funded Al Jazeera news channel would be closed down “in the coming days,” saying “there won’t be freedom of expression for Hamas mouthpieces in Israel.”

Karhi, a member of the hardline flank of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, continued: “We have brought to fruition an effective and swift tool against those who use freedom of the press to harm Israel’s security and IDF soldiers, and who incite to terrorism during a time of war.”

The US expressed concern over the legislation, with White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre saying: “We believe in the freedom of the press. It is critically important. The United States supports the critically important work journalists around the world do, and that includes those who are reporting on the conflict in Gaza. If those reports are true, it is concerning to us.”

In an earlier statement, Netanyahu’s Likud party said that the prime minister would “act immediately to close Al Jazeera” in accordance with the terms of the new law.

The new law gives the prime minister and the communications minister the authority to order the temporary closure of foreign networks operating in Israel and confiscate their equipment if it is believed that they are “doing actual harm to state security.”

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, right, with Communications Minister Shlomo Karhi during a discussion and a vote in the Knesset, in Jerusalem, on March 1, 2023. (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)
It is the communications minister who is empowered to issue such orders, but only after receiving the approval of the prime minister and the security cabinet, and after a professional position paper has been presented to the prime minister and the communications minister by the security services detailing the “factual foundations” of allegations that the channel is causing damage to Israel’s national security.

The law empowers the communication’s minister to order “content providers” to cease broadcasting the channel in question; order the channel’s Israeli offices to be shuttered; order the channel’s equipment confiscated; and order the channel’s website to be taken offline, if the server is physically located in Israel, or otherwise block access to the website.

Such orders are valid for 45 days but can be renewed for further 45-day periods.

Under the terms of the law, any order to shut down a foreign news channel must be brought within 24 hours for judicial review by the president of a district court, who must then decide within three days if they wish to change or shorten the period of the order.
The law itself has been passed as a temporary law and will expire on July 31 or earlier if the declaration of an emergency situation is lifted by the government.

The legislation passed a first reading in the plenum in February and was approved for its second and third readings following an extended debate in the Knesset National Security Committee.

MK Tzvika Fogel of the Otzma Yehudit party speaks in the Knesset plenum in favor of the so-called Al Jazeera law, April 1, 2024 (Noam Moskowitz/Danny Shem Tov/Knesset Spokesperson’s Office)
Though Israeli officials have long complained about Al Jazeera’s coverage, which they say is heavily influenced by Hamas and endangers IDF troops in Gaza, in the past they stopped short of taking action, mindful of Qatar’s bankrolling of Palestinian construction projects in the Gaza Strip, which were seen by all sides as a means of staving off conflict.

Communications Minister Karhi’s office said in October that the drive to shut down Al Jazeera in Israel was based on “proof that it is assisting the enemy, broadcasting propaganda in the service of Hamas, in Arabic and English, to viewers around the world, and even passing sensitive information to the enemy.”

Karhi accused the station of pro-Hamas incitement and exposing Israeli troops to ambushes. Al Jazeera and the Doha government did not respond to those allegations.

In November, however, Israel appeared to spare the Qatari station, instead ordering the shutting down of the local broadcasts of a smaller Lebanese pro-Iranian channel, Al Mayadeen, under emergency media regulations.

Since the war erupted on October 7 with Hamas’s unprecedented attack — in which terrorists murdered some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and kidnapped 253 — Doha has mediated ceasefire talks under which Israel recovered 105 hostages in November.

Negotiations on a second proposed truce that would see the release of additional hostages have yet to bear fruit. In January, Netanyahu publicly called for the Qataris to apply more pressure on Hamas. Qatar hosts the terrorist organization’s political office and several top Hamas officials.

[Luvnit2]

(04-03-2024, 02:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's crazy that it took the killing of some foreigners to make Israel and the US say "Sorry about that.  Big accident." rather than the thousands upon thousands of people killed before then.

Maybe because they accidentally bombed three separate vehicles that were a mile or more apart?  Is that three oopsies/accidents or just one?

I am no war expert, but I would think Gaza, or any country would do everything in their power to not invite being invaded. Why do you think the US tries very hard to fight wars on foreign soil, they know if we are attacked, innocent people would die. 

So, Palestinian militia Hamas instigates Israel by coming into Israel and brutally murdering innocent civilians. This same group and other Iranian proxies were firing misses into civilian areas for years. Hamas had and have a choice, lay down your weapons and spare innocent Palestinians lives. They have a choice to free every hostage. Hamas's choices initially and ongoing created the war.  

Hamas started it, it will be ended by Israel in the end. Any Palestinian deaths are on Hamas and anyone thinking different needs to think long and hard. This war was a creation of barbaric events on Oct. 7th by Hamas. I stand with Israel, eliminate Hamas so the Israeli people can sleep better at night without fear of missiles blowing up their homes. 

[Arturo Bandini]

This thread is a masterclass in contor-sionism.

[GMDino]

(04-04-2024, 01:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am no war expert, but I would think Gaza, or any country would do everything in their power to not invite being invaded. Why do you think the US tries very hard to fight wars on foreign soil, they know if we are attacked, innocent people would die. 

So, Palestinian militia Hamas instigates Israel by coming into Israel and brutally murdering innocent civilians. This same group and other Iranian proxies were firing misses into civilian areas for years. Hamas had and have a choice, lay down your weapons and spare innocent Palestinians lives. They have a choice to free every hostage. Hamas's choices initially and ongoing created the war.  

Hamas started it, it will be ended by Israel in the end. Any Palestinian deaths are on Hamas and anyone thinking different needs to think long and hard. This war was a creation of barbaric events on Oct. 7th by Hamas. I stand with Israel, eliminate Hamas so the Israeli people can sleep better at night without fear of missiles blowing up their homes. 

Hamas did indeed start this in October.  

The civilians who are forced to live there and haven't had an election since GW was in office are the ones suffering.  They have nowhere to go while Israel tries to "eliminate" a group of people without knowing how to identify them all.

And when they are told to move to another part of the country to be "safe" they get bombed there too.

It's a horrible situation but neither side will quit.  And in the end Israel will capture all of the land they want, kill as many "enemies" as they want and they cry about how they are discriminated against the whole time.

[Dill]

(04-03-2024, 03:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:Does that mean they are "equally" as bad as each other?  Of course not.  Any idiot would know that.  What it means is Israel does bad things too and seems to not only not care but gets upset that anyone would question them.

Well, using your own words your buddy is that "idiot" as he has directly stated exactly that.  In fact he claimed the IDF was actually worse.

I went back and checked. #219. 

In answer to your question about number of "atrocities," Dino's buddy said:  If you mean war crimes and violations of IHL, then 

I'd say the record shows the IDF does so with greater frequency, with much greater destruction and loss of life.

So it looks like Dino's buddy was treating this as a factual question. Then he posted some links about the history of IDF war crimes,
which would go a long ways to deciding that factual question on empirical grounds. 

You never responded, though. So maybe it wasn't a factual question for you. You have another narrative, so you just kept plowing ahead with that one.