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(04-28-2024, 05:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Eh, just highly skeptical of how and when these dudes show up and then disappear from the news cycle entirely for months. I guess this is one of the areas where I'm more cynical than you. I am aware of similar things done here, obviously not on the same scale, so please forgive my indulging in this. It wasn't that long ago that espousing the lab leak theory for Covid was considered a tin foil hate conspiracy.
You're response wasn't just "skeptical" it was full conspiracy theory.
I don't know if you were pushing the lab leak for Covid or not, but that's still a helluva stretch to get to this being a false flag.
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(04-28-2024, 03:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, this march was fake.
Why would the government want to draw attention to the "number one threat in the US, white supremacy" during all these campus protests? Give it a think and see what you can come up with.
Gave it a think.
Tried to imagine scores of Feds getting orders and coordinating to imitate white supremacists to, what, help Biden?
Or pro-Palestine protests? Without alarming Republican feds?
Closest I could come was imagining right wing feds joining such a group and marching off duty.
Maybe military and local law enforcement in the group too.
Wouldn't the local police have to be in on it? They arrested some and removed their hoods.
No one can get their names?
https://www.newsweek.com/white-supremacist-patriot-front-marches-through-city-videos-1894937
Opps, nevermind. the first video was from another event in Idaho.
But if you look at the accompanying Twitter video, there are definitely some bellies.
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(04-28-2024, 06:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I just don't tolerate conspiracy theories all that well. I know the way things spread around Washington; I know way too many staffers and bureaucrats in DC and have heard far too many things. Something at the level you are suggesting for Patriot Front to be a false flag operation would require way more people to be read in than would be critical mass for it to be contained. Really, when you think about it, my disbelief in conspiracy theories really boils down to my cynicism towards our government. I just don't believe them capable of pulling something like that off and keeping it quiet.
I can't really argue with this position in general. What I can say is that I did not come to be skeptical of this group overnight. Why do they appear out of nowhere and then disappear, both from the site of their protest but also the news cycle? When a fair number of them were arrested in Idaho I noticed, and I believe I pointed this out here, that they were all sitting in cuffs with their masks still on. With one exception, who was up against a patrol car. Literally the first thing I'm doing if I arrest someone with a mask on, after they are secured, is removing their mask. There were booking photos released, and then, again, it completely dropped off the radar. With as much as the media loves to report on white supremacists why do they become such a non-story so quickly? I don't know, man, it's just really odd to me.
I can tell you first hand that I get accused of making up the pre-booking diversion program in LA County by people who refuse to believe criminals can commit crime and not even be booked. No booking means no public record. It's entirely done in house. And I doubt you'd be surprised how much those numbers get manipulated. I'm also aware from friends in probation and parole how much they are not allowed to do their job, but publicly the government reports no difference in how either functions. I'm just been privy to too much first hand knowledge of the government flat out lying to people to trust them at all anymore.
Sad state of affairs to be sure. Regardless it's not the topic of the thread, so I'll leave it at that.
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(04-27-2024, 10:40 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: I’ve seen outlets refer to him as a leader of the protest.
https://www.newsweek.com/who-khymani-james-columbia-protest-organizers-remarks-spark-fury-1894488
She apparently has status enough to lead a presser.
They also had an audience with a sitting US senator.
There goes the right, ***noticing*** shit. Seizing, pouncing, etc. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/29/gaza-college-campus-protests-republicans-attack-biden-chaos/
They did the thing.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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(04-29-2024, 10:25 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/29/gaza-college-campus-protests-republicans-attack-biden-chaos/
They did the thing.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here's an archived version for those who can't bypass the paywall.
https://archive.ph/KM2mn
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(04-29-2024, 10:25 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/29/gaza-college-campus-protests-republicans-attack-biden-chaos/
They did the thing.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd just like to point out that Soros must be slacking as not all those tents are the same. 
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(04-29-2024, 10:39 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'd just like to point out that Soros must be slacking as not all those tents are the same.
Your attempt to deflect once again fails. Why do you support protestors calling for Jews to be killed and eliminated from the face of the earth.
Are you Omar's brother/Husband?
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(04-29-2024, 11:04 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Your attempt to deflect once again fails. Why do you support protestors calling for Jews to be killed and eliminated from the face of the earth.
Are you Omar's brother/Husband?
I do not support protestors calling for Jews to be killed and eliminated from the face of the earth. If you can find a single post where I cheered them or or said they were right please share it.
Please learn how to take a joke about the conspiracy theories behind some of these protests.
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(04-29-2024, 10:39 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'd just like to point out that Soros must be slacking as not all those tents are the same.
You know it’s STANKY over there.
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(04-29-2024, 11:36 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: You know it’s STANKY over there.
I mean, tent living in general is. I have lived in tents for a varied number of days, from two day to nine weeks. It is never pleasant smelling. 
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(04-29-2024, 11:36 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: You know it’s STANKY over there.
I graduated college over 30 years ago. We didn't have AC units in dorms built 30 years before that. It was stanky THEN! I can't imagine what this kind of encampment is like hygiene wise.
I wonder if that plays against the stereotype of the protestors this time?
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(04-29-2024, 11:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, tent living in general is. I have lived in tents for a varied number of days, from two day to nine weeks. It is never pleasant smelling.
I tent camp for 2-3 nights usually at some land we have a few times a year. The shower upon return to civilization is top shelf. 9 weeks, hope you were putting the baby wipes to use.
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Too little, too late.
US finds Israeli units committed human rights abuses before Gaza war
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/29/idf-human-rights-violation-gaza-us-state-department
The US has found five units of the Israeli security forces responsible for gross violations of human rights, over incidents in the West Bank before the current Gaza war, the state department has said.
The findings come at a time when Israel is facing potential accountability from the international criminal court and the state department for its conduct of the conflict in Gaza, in which more than 34,000 people have been killed.
The units found to be involved in abuses in the West Bank are mostly from the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) but include at least one police unit. They have not been sanctioned, however, the state department said.
People mourn the death of a loved one
US accused of failing to act on reports of abuse by Israeli forces
Four of the units were judged to have carried out effective remedial action after the US state department shared its findings with Israel.
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https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2024/04/25/gazans-venting-anger-against-hamas-in-wake-of-death-and-destruction/
Quote:Gazans venting anger against Hamas in wake of death and destruction
Support for Islamist group declining after six months of gruelling war with Israel
![[Image: 4R7ZZIN4CIV2SF27NWGCQFOM7A.jpg]](https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/-3PNIJ0kaHc436MhdF0MchuA6Rw=/1600x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/irishtimes/4R7ZZIN4CIV2SF27NWGCQFOM7A.jpg)
Palestinians flee from northern Gaza: Israel’s offensive has killed more than 34,000 Palestinians, say local health authorities. Entire families have been killed and swathes reduced to uninhabitable wastelands. Photograph: Mohammed Dahman/AP
Mai Khaled and Heba Saleh in Cairo
Thu Apr 25 2024 - 17:57
[/url]
[url=https://reddit.com/submit?url=https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2024/04/25/gazans-venting-anger-against-hamas-in-wake-of-death-and-destruction/&title=Gazans%20venting%20anger%20against%20Hamas%20in%20wake%20of%20death%20and%20destruction][/url]
Palestinians in Gaza are increasingly willing to voice their anger against Hamas, accusing the militant group of failing to anticipate Israel’s ferocious retaliation for its October 7th attack that sparked the devastating six-month war.
Hamas rules Gaza with a tight grip, but as Israel’s offensive has reduced the enclave to rubble, killed tens of thousands and brought the population close to famine, residents such as Nassim – a retired civil servant – have begun speaking out against the Islamist group.
“They should have predicted Israel’s response and thought of what would happen to the 2.3 million Gazans who have nowhere safe to go,” Nassim said in the southern city of Rafah, which teems with internally displaced families from across the shattered territory.
“They [Hamas] should have restricted themselves to military targets.”
Mohammed, another Gazan, went further by directly blaming Yahya Sinwar – the leader of Hamas in Gaza and the mastermind of October 7th – for the devastation that Israel’s offensive has wrought in the strip.
[ [url=https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2024/04/25/senior-hamas-official-says-group-will-disarm-if-sovereign-palestinian-state-is-established/]Senior Hamas official says group will disarm if sovereign Palestinian state is established ]
“I pray every day for God to punish the one who brought us to this situation,” Mohammed said. “I pray every day for the death of Sinwar.”
Hamas had ruled a divided society in Gaza even before the war, with a sizeable constituency still supporting its rival, Fatah, which it ousted from the strip in 2007.
The militant Islamist movement has in the years since exerted strong control over Gaza and its population, arresting opponents and allowing little space for dissent. The blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas seized sole control in 2007 strangled the enclave’s economy, leaving most Gazans dependent on aid.
Following the October 7th attack, some in the Palestinian territories and the wider Arab world expressed support for Hamas’s cross-border raid on Israel as a blow against the occupying power. About 1,200 people were killed in the assault, according to Israeli authorities.
Polls in November by the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research showed Hamas’s popularity in Gaza and the occupied West Bank had increased from three months earlier. In Gaza, support increased from 38 per cent to 43 per cent and in the West Bank from 12 per cent to 44 per cent.
But by March that support had dipped again because of the ferocity of Israel’s retaliation and the scale of destruction and loss of life in Gaza, according to a survey by the same research group.
Khalil Shikaki, director of the centre, said that support for Hamas fell by almost a quarter to 34 per cent, according to a poll taken during the first week of March. The movement also lost popularity in the West Bank, where support fell from 44 per cent to 35 per cent.
“There is no doubt support for Hamas is declining in Gaza because more and more people feel it has some responsibility for the pain they are enduring,” said Shikaki.
[ Conflict in Gaza ‘not just a war on Hamas’, Tánaiste says on Middle East trip ]
Israel’s Gaza offensive has killed more than 34,000 Palestinians, according to local health authorities. The vast majority of the population have been displaced, sometimes many times over. Entire families have been killed and swathes of the strip have been reduced to uninhabitable wastelands.
Starvation and disease stalk the territory as Israeli restrictions severely limit the entry of humanitarian supplies, according to UN agencies. The World Food Programme warned this week that Gaza could officially enter famine within six weeks.
Analysts say the absence of Hamas’s powerful internal security force – which has been lying low to avoid Israeli attacks – has opened an unprecedented space for those willing to vent their frustration at the militant group and its leadership.
Azmi Keshawi, Gaza analyst at the International Crisis Group, said: “Critics have been emboldened because there’s no one now to fear. Hamas fighters are busy with Israel and have no time to deal with ordinary people. Their police force is also being struck by the Israelis.”
Others argue that Gazans have already endured so much devastation that they feel they have nothing more to lose by speaking out.
“People are no longer afraid,” said Mkhaimar Abusada, professor of political science at the now destroyed al Azhar University, who left Gaza late last year. “They’ve suffered like never before, and their situation is so catastrophic that it makes no difference to them. They’re already facing death.”
[ Unrwa given fresh lease of life as report says Israel’s claims of Hamas links have not been backed up ]
Hamas appears to be aware that Gazans are increasingly blaming it for their predicament. Abusada said he knew of individuals with large social media followings who received phone calls – which he presumed to be from the militant group or people connected to it – when they had criticised Hamas, asking them to stop.
“They told them: ‘You should be helping lift morale and encouraging people’,” he said.
Such is the scale of the devastation in Gaza that, for survivors, there is no realistic prospect of returning to their homes or resuming normal life in the short term, even if the bombs stop falling.
Damage to Gaza’s critical infrastructure amounts to $18.5 billion (€17.3 billion), according to a World Bank report this month that warned that the estimated 26 million tonnes of debris and rubble from bombed buildings across the strip would take years to clear.
“The role of the resistance is to protect us civilians, not to sacrifice us,” said Samia, another of those displaced to Rafah. “I don’t want to die and I didn’t want my children to witness what they’ve seen and to live in a tent suffering from hunger, cold and poverty.”
There is also anger at the disappearance not only of the police but also of other elements of Hamas’s state apparatus. That has allowed civil order to break down and left Gaza’s population, half of whom are children, to fend for themselves amid the chaos.
Israel appears to be gearing up for a ground offensive on Rafah, which would bring further violence to the town that humanitarian groups have warned was Gazans’ last refuge from the destruction.
“We even have to pay an enormous price for the aid that reaches Gaza,” said a resident of Khan Younis named Mohammed. “If we assume it’s not Hamas that’s selling it, what are they doing about the profiteers? Where’s the government and the police to ensure the right of citizens to get hold of basic food?”
[ Israel says it has conducted all necessary preparations to enter the city of Rafah ]
Hamas, as an Islamist movement, has a large ideological following within Gaza’s conservative society. While not all public officials were affiliated with it, before the war the group controlled the government and occupied critical positions in police and civil administration.
At the beginning of its rule, Hamas tried to impose its strict Islamist mores on society but, in recent years, it has abandoned that attempt as it faced mounting criticism at home and from rights groups internationally.
But even with anger rising against the group, analysts say that Hamas can count on the core support of about 20-25 per cent of the population.
“There’s a bloc which backs Hamas and the resistance, whatever they do, and they are ready to pay the price,” said Keshawi. “There are others who voted for Hamas in the past, but because they hold it responsible for their current suffering, they are now frustrated with it.”
Despite its declining popularity and the military blows it has received from Israel, analysts believe that Hamas will survive – not only because of ideological support for the group as an Islamist movement, but also because many Palestinians view it as engaged in legitimate resistance against Israeli occupation.
[ Should investors be alarmed by Iran-Israel war risks? ]
For Abusada, the political scientist, Israel’s aim of eradicating Hamas is unlikely to be achieved, even if the group’s capabilities have been degraded and many of its fighters killed.
“There will still be pockets of resistance” in Gaza and support for Hamas, he said, because “people hate the occupation and want to see someone fighting it”.
He continued: “Hamas may be losing popularity in Gaza, but in the West Bank and among Palestinians in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, it remains very popular.” – Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2024
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(04-30-2024, 08:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2024/04/25/gazans-venting-anger-against-hamas-in-wake-of-death-and-destruction/
Very heartening to see. It rather runs contrary to your narrative thus far, but I'm sure even you would see this as a net positive. Declining to enable extremists on both sides actually makes a peaceful resolution a possibility. Take note college students.
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(04-30-2024, 09:24 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Very heartening to see. It rather runs contrary to your narrative thus far, but I'm sure even you would see this as a net positive. Declining to enable extremists on both sides actually makes a peaceful resolution a possibility. Take note college students.
My narrative that the civilians don't want war and to be slaughtered? Or my narrative that the majority don't support Hamas?
Which of my narratives did that story "run contrary" to?
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(04-30-2024, 10:39 PM)GMDino Wrote: My narrative that the civilians don't want war and to be slaughtered? Or my narrative that the majority don't support Hamas?
Which of my narratives did that story "run contrary" to?
That Hamas is a justified response to the oppression of Israel, not a continued version of the antisemitisim that has been expressed by Israel's neighbors since its refounding in 1948. Or maybe that was your friend, you guys get hard to tell apart. If I am mistaken I do humbly apologize.
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(04-29-2024, 11:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: I do not support protestors calling for Jews to be killed and eliminated from the face of the earth. If you can find a single post where I cheered them or or said they were right please share it.
Please learn how to take a joke about the conspiracy theories behind some of these protests.
Are you Netanyahu?
I would think you would see the obvious, these students are being funded and influenced by far left groups.
The F.B.I. should be doing a huge investigation including collecting cell phone data from these college protest sites. They did it on Jan. 6 with conservatives, I would argue what is happening in multiple sites far exceeds the capital riots.
It is a civil rights violation to go after Jews and not allow them to walk down a campus sidewalk or go to class. Where is the F.B.I.? Why does NYC arrest students and never charge them? Is Bragg and James a part of the anti-sematic protestors and thus protecting them?
Would they release conservative protestors who damaged property and held 3 people hostage? We all know the answer and so do the voters, one justice for conservatives and no justice applied to Democrats in liberal run cities and states.
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Oh.
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Back to the actual topic.
Unlike some people here this woman can answer the question of whether they consider Hamas terrorists or freedom fighters.
Hamas are "freedom fighters" and what they did on 10/07/23 was a good thing. All the while the crowd cheering.
Nothing pro-Hamas about these protests at all.
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