It's Draft Time: Impeachment Edition

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Depending on what comes out, I can garentee that Trumps lawyers will release a statement saying in a lot more words something along the lines of "Why do you think they were fired?" and that's where this thing ends.

[Yojimbo]

(12-01-2017, 04:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's okay, you have the plural form of you. That is something English lacks (unless you count regional variants like y'all, yinz, etc.) and it is ridiculous that is the case.

Don’t forget “all y’all”.

[Dill]

(12-01-2017, 04:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's okay, you have the plural form of you. That is something English lacks (unless you count regional variants like y'all, yinz, etc.) and it is ridiculous that is the case.

Well we used to have a plural form--"ge" with a palatized "g"-- before the language got all Frenchified.

(12-01-2017, 04:09 PM)hollodero Wrote: And bigly is not. There's no consistency. 
Also you hardly know any conjugation or declination, but the adverb has to be something special. The one thing that isn't in my language. Thanks Obama.

Yeah it's time to talk about adverbs, nothing else going on right now.

Actually, "bigly" is an adverb too. It just isn't used anymore.  And once upon a time we knew lots of conjugation--way more than Modern German.  Er, come to think of it, so did you. English and German come from the same West Germanic source.

[Belsnickel]

Even the state run propaganda machine has it that Flynn is going to name Trump: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/01/michael-flynn-charged-in-special-counsels-russia-investigation.html

Quote:Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to making false statements to the FBI – as part of a deal that involves his full cooperation with investigators in Special Counsel Robert Mueller's Russia probe.

Court documents show Flynn has told investigators a “very senior member” of the Trump transition team directed him to contact foreign governments including Russia over a United Nations vote – discussions tied to one of Flynn's false statements.

While it is unclear who Flynn himself is prepared to name, Fox News has been told by a former senior intelligence officer with knowledge of Trump transition activities that then-President-Elect Trump directed Flynn during that period to contact the Russians -- while also directing him and his team to contact 12 other countries.

“The transition team felt that the Obama White House had completely abandoned any coherent foreign policy and had to fill the vacuum,” the former official told Fox News.

The purpose of the calls, according to the source, was to assure the other nations that the incoming adminstration would soon be in place and not to overreact to last-minute actions taken by the Obama team.

In a statement, White House lawyer Ty Cobb said “nothing” about the plea implicates anyone other than Flynn.

The documents also say Flynn called an unnamed senior transition official in December to ask what to communicate to the Russian ambassador about sanctions. That official and Flynn discussed how they didn’t want Russia to "escalate the situation," something Flynn immediately told the ambassador in a phone call.

Of course, downplaying the situation. But still.

[Belsnickel]

(12-01-2017, 05:25 PM)Dill Wrote: Well we used to have a plural form--"ge" with a palatized "g"-- before the language got all Frenchified.

Those dirty French. 

[Dill]

(12-01-2017, 05:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those dirty French. 

LOL not all of them. Just the Normans.

[GMDino]

(12-01-2017, 05:19 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Don’t forget “all y’all”.

Our neighbor from Louisiana was good for that one.

Usually it was "F all y'all!"

[GMDino]

It doesn't matter if it's a lie...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362856-cnn-white-house-claims-obama-admin-approved-flynn-calls-with-russian#.WiHnbMHJGAw.facebook

Quote:CNN: White House claims Obama admin approved Flynn calls with Russian ambassador

The White House said on Friday that it was the Obama administration that authorized former national security adviser Michael Flynn's contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during President Trump's transition, according to CNN.

Flynn pleaded guilty on Friday to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Kislyak in the month before Trump took office, the first current or former Trump White House official brought down by special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russia's election meddling.

Court records indicate that his communications with Kislyak were directed by a Trump transition official, with multiple news outlets reporting that official was Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner.

“They are saying here at the White House that Flynn’s conversations with Sergey Kisylak were quote ‘authorized’ by the Obama administration,” CNN correspondent Jim Acosta said.

“We should point out, that is something that we have not heard before in terms of a defense from this White House,” he said.

The White House did not immediately respond to The Hill's request for comment.

James Clapper, who served as the Director of National Intelligence under Obama, said that the claim that the Obama administration authorized Flynn's contacts with Kislyak was "absurd," adding that the administration was concerned by the communications at the time.

“That’s absurd. That’s absolutely absurd," Clapper said on CNN. 

"There was great concern at the time, not just with this particular contact, but with the violation of the principle that historically been followed of one president, one administration at a time," he added. "So to say that we blessed it, or acquiesced it is a stretch.”
In a statement released shortly after he entered his guilty plea, Flynn acknowledged that he is cooperating with Mueller's probe into Russian interference during last year's election and any coordination between the Trump campaign and Moscow.

According to court documents, Flynn lied to investigators when he told them that he did not ask Kislyak to refrain from retaliating against U.S. sanctions imposed by the Obama administration in response to the Russian meddling.

Flynn also lied when he told the FBI that he did not lobby Kislyak to oppose or delay a United Nations Security Council vote condemning Israeli settlements, a resolution strongly condemned by Trump.

Flynn resigned from the Trump White House in February — just 24 days into office — after it was reported that he misled Vice President Pence and other officials about his contacts with Kislyak.

The White House sought to distance itself from Flynn on Friday, noting that he only served as Trump's national security adviser for a few weeks and that he lied to Pence about his interactions with Kislyak in the same vein that he lied to the FBI.

Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign chairman, and his associate Richard Gates were indicted last month in Mueller's probe, and George Papadopoulos, a former foreign policy adviser to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to lying to FBI agents.

But unlike them, Flynn was part of nearly Trump's entire presidential campaign and held a high-level national security position in the administration.

Flynn served as the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency under former President Obama, but was removed from that post in 2014.

Obama reportedly advised Trump against bringing him back to the White House.

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/16/special-counsel-indicts-russian-nationals-election-interference/345720002/

Quote:Special counsel indicts Russian nationals for interfering with U.S. elections and political processes

WASHINGTON – Special counsel Robert Mueller filed his first criminal charges against Russian nationals and businesses on Friday for what he called a wide-ranging effort to undermine the 2016 presidential election, including by "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump." 

The indictment charges 13 Russian nationals and three businesses – including an internet firm tied to the Kremlin – with conspiracy, identity theft, and failing to register as foreign agents. 

In the indictment, Mueller charged that some of the Russians, posing as Americans, "communicated with unwitting individuals" associated with Trump's 2016 campaign "to seek to coordinate political activities."  

The charges are the government's most detailed accounting to date of an effort by Russian operatives to sow distrust in the U.S. political system and to influence the outcome of the presidential election. 

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said that the charges do not allege that the operation "altered the outcome of the election." Nor, he said, does it suggest that any Americans knew they were dealing with Russian operatives.

The charges are the latest salvo in Mueller's investigation of Russian election interference. Last year, prosecutors brought charges against four people tied to Trump's campaign, including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his ex-national security adviser Mike Flynn.  

Prosecutors allege that the Russian Internet Research Agency and others spread messages on social media to promote Trump's candidacy and to criticize his political rival Hillary Clinton. They also alleged that some of the Russian operatives organized rallies supporting Trump and traveled to the United States to gather information.

Other parts of the operation appeared more focused on picking at Americans' political divisions. After Trump was elected, Rosenstein said, the Russian operatives organized competing rallies on the same day both supporting and opposing him. 

[Belsnickel]

(02-16-2018, 03:55 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/16/special-counsel-indicts-russian-nationals-election-interference/345720002/

I've been reading up on this a bit. Nothing really surprising in this. Interesting to note that some of the wording in the indictment (referring to Trump Campaign staffer(s) as "unwitting") point to there likely not being any collusion charges coming down the road. Again, not surprising to me, but just wanted to point that out.

Lots in there about Russians promoting Sander and Trump, some about them trying to suppress the minority vote. They were successful in their goals, I don't think we can deny that based upon what we are seeing, and that includes the continued efforts to sow discord in American society.

[GMDino]

(02-16-2018, 03:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've been reading up on this a bit. Nothing really surprising in this. Interesting to note that some of the wording in the indictment (referring to Trump Campaign staffer(s) as "unwitting") point to there likely not being any collusion charges coming down the road. Again, not surprising to me, but just wanted to point that out.

Lots in there about Russians promoting Sander and Trump, some about them trying to suppress the minority vote. They were successful in their goals, I don't think we can deny that based upon what we are seeing, and that includes the continued efforts to sow discord in American society.

yeah, the "unwitting" part will be interesting to see seeing as several we already know "wittingly" met with some Russian officials too.

I just wonder how the POTUS will continue to say this never happened because Putin told him so?

[Belsnickel]

(02-16-2018, 04:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: yeah, the "unwitting" part will be interesting to see seeing as several we already know "wittingly" met with some Russian officials too.

I just wonder how the POTUS will continue to say this never happened because Putin told him so?

My concerns are more about the future. How do we prevent this from happening again? These companies and individuals are just one part of a massive network. We didn't heed the warnings from Europe when this happened over there (some of the same techniques were used in Ukraine). Now that it has hit home, we still don't seem to be doing anything about it. I understand the administration is remaining in denial about this for fear it delegitimizes his authority, but his ignoring the problem does more to him in that regard than if he directed our intelligence community to act on this.

I just don't know what we, the citizenry, can do. We can't magically make more judicious information consumers out of everyone in the country.

[JustWinBaby]

(02-16-2018, 04:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: yeah, the "unwitting" part will be interesting to see seeing as several we already know "wittingly" met with some Russian officials too.

I just wonder how the POTUS will continue to say this never happened because Putin told him so?

LOL, you can always find the "silver lining" for your partisan irrationality.

[GMDino]

(02-16-2018, 04:14 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: LOL, you can always find the "silver lining" for your partisan irrationality.

It's partisan to point out what the POTUS has said that is patently false?

For real? 

[GMDino]

(02-16-2018, 04:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: My concerns are more about the future. How do we prevent this from happening again? These companies and individuals are just one part of a massive network. We didn't heed the warnings from Europe when this happened over there (some of the same techniques were used in Ukraine). Now that it has hit home, we still don't seem to be doing anything about it. I understand the administration is remaining in denial about this for fear it delegitimizes his authority, but his ignoring the problem does more to him in that regard than if he directed our intelligence community to act on this.

I just don't know what we, the citizenry, can do. We can't magically make more judicious information consumers out of everyone in the country.

We can't do it for a dozen people on a message board.  

All seriousness aside until the POTUS gets on board with it there will be very little to nothing done to stop it other than citizenry trying to get the truth out to everyone.

[hollodero]

(02-16-2018, 04:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: My concerns are more about the future. How do we prevent this from happening again? These companies and individuals are just one part of a massive network. We didn't heed the warnings from Europe when this happened over there (some of the same techniques were used in Ukraine). Now that it has hit home, we still don't seem to be doing anything about it. I understand the administration is remaining in denial about this for fear it delegitimizes his authority, but his ignoring the problem does more to him in that regard than if he directed our intelligence community to act on this.

I just don't know what we, the citizenry, can do. We can't magically make more judicious information consumers out of everyone in the country.

Yeah you didn't heed our warnings indeed. I guess only thing you could do against it is vote. More and more these midterm elections turn out to be about the state of your democracy and your democracy alone. No matter who you side with, actually. You either believe the Nunes/Trump/Hannity story that Russia is nothing and FBI and DOJ etc. are all undermined by deep state conspiracy (then for the sake of the country you need to vote Republican), or you believe the FBI and all the other agencies and institutions and want the Mueller investigation to go on (then for the sake of the country you need to vote Democrat). Either way, US democracy it at stake and everything else is less important. Says me.

[GMDino]

I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia - it never did!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 18, 2018

[Dill]

(02-16-2018, 04:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's partisan to point out what the POTUS has said that is patently false?

For real? 

In contemporary politics, of course it is partisan.  You have your facts and Trump and his Congressional backers have their alternative facts.

So the "patent falsity" of Trump's statements only appears to Democrats and Establishment Republicans.  I.e., your claim Trump lied about the Russian meddling is a Democratic party talking point.

Don't bother wasting my time by comparing differently dated Trump tweets. Trump was just as right when he tweeted the one as when he tweeted the other. I am not going to listen to anyone who is irrationally partisan as you are.

[Dill]

(02-16-2018, 04:31 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah you didn't heed our warnings indeed. I guess only thing you could do against it is vote. More and more these midterm elections turn out to be about the state of your democracy and your democracy alone. No matter who you side with, actually. You either believe the Nunes/Trump/Hannity story that Russia is nothing and FBI and DOJ etc. are all undermined by deep state conspiracy (then for the sake of the country you need to vote Republican), or you believe the FBI and all the other agencies and institutions and want the Mueller investigation to go on (then for the sake of the country you need to vote Democrat). Either way, US democracy it at stake and everything else is less important. Says me.

Sure, vote Democrat and lose our guns!

As long as we have them, I don't think we have to worry much about Russians or anyone else.

Go peddle your Communism to countries who don't love freedom!

[hollodero]

(02-19-2018, 01:50 PM)Dill Wrote: Sure, vote Democrat and lose our guns!

As long as we have them, I don't think we have to worry much about Russians or anyone else.

Go peddle your Communism to countries who don't love freedom!

Oh Jeez yeah, that right shall not be infringed, all hell would break loose if you could not form a well-regulated militia with semi-automatics and bumping stocks.

Then again, as an originalist I suppose this right only refers to arms available in 1788. So machetes, breechloader rifles, double-barreled revolvers and such. I'd sell everyone who wants it a breechloader. If people want something better, they need to be trained by serving in the US army first, at least for a month or two on the home front.