Its OK now to teach religion in public schools

[Benton]

(10-13-2015, 07:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: People in this country need to educate themselves on everything before flipping a shit.

So much misinformation flows in this country. I blame the liberals.

Wrong. Liberals don't own computers, as they're out in the woods hugging trees and growing pot to sell to GOP candidates who use it to buy sexual favors from young men.

[*Nately120*]

(10-13-2015, 07:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So much misinformation flows in this country. I blame the liberals.

So much information flows in this country that many people are content to blame one political party (not saying that you are saying it's 100% the fault of liberals, but that was sort of funny).

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2015, 11:33 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I agree, as long as it is explained as a myth and not pushed on students.

I would not want the teacher to say it is a myth.  But the definitely need to teach the influence of all religions on culture and history.  

Religion has been one of the most influential powers in the history of mankind.  It has to be discussed and understood.  In order for people to understand why other countries and societies do what they do we have to understand the tenets and influence of their religions.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-14-2015, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would not want the teacher to say it is a myth.  But the definitely need to teach the influence of all religions on culture and history.  

Religion has been one of the most influential powers in the history of mankind.  It has to be discussed and understood.  In order for people to understand why other countries and societies do what they do we have to understand the tenets and influence of their religions.

I agree. I think ALL religions should be taught and done so in a very clinical manner. There's nothing wrong with saying, "This is the [insert religion] religion and these are the tenets of their faith." Try to give equal time to them all, but if you want to dedicate more time to the major ones, that's fine, just don't force anyone to accept any of the beliefs and don't belittle any of the beliefs and everything should be fine (well, SHOULD be, but unfortunately there are idiots of all religious backgrounds that will have a problem).

[StLucieBengal]

(10-13-2015, 11:33 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I agree, as long as it is explained as a myth and not pushed on students.

Could be taught similar to a philosophy class.

Kids aren't gonna believe unless it's getting reinforced elsewhere, at home, Friends, etc. so it's not like they are getting indoctrinated in a class.

[Belsnickel]

(10-15-2015, 01:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Could be taught similar to a philosophy class.

Kids aren't gonna believe unless it's getting reinforced elsewhere, at home, Friends, etc. so it's not like they are getting indoctrinated in a class.

That's contrary to what some of the hard-liners on the right believe about education.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-15-2015, 01:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Could be taught similar to a philosophy class.  

It can be taught as an elective.

Quote:Kids aren't gonna believe unless it's getting reinforced elsewhere, at home, Friends, etc. 

Exactly.  Universal truths need to be reinforced.  Otherwise, they aren't universally true.

Quote:so it's not like they are getting indoctrinated in a class.

Indoctrination is why we have church.

[jmccracky]

(10-15-2015, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's contrary to what some of the hard-liners on the right believe about education.

That is what I was thinking.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-15-2015, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's contrary to what some of the hard-liners on the right believe about education.

Educating some morality is never a bad thing. Children being exposed to the Lord is always a good thing. Whether it sticks or not is up to their parents.

And as far as what "hard-liners on the right" believe. I can only control what I believe, and to me this is a realistic option. plus we all now their will be a push for teachers to belittle Christianity anyway.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-17-2015, 07:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Educating some morality is never a bad thing.   Children being exposed to the Lord is always a good thing.   Whether it sticks or not is up to their parents.    

And as far as what "hard-liners on the right" believe.  I can only control what I believe, and to me this is a realistic option.   plus we all now their will be a push for teachers to belittle Christianity anyway.

So "your" all good with the Muslim call to prayer in school since it is the same lord and being exposed to such is always a good thing?

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-15-2015, 01:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Could be taught similar to a philosophy class.  

Kids aren't gonna believe unless it's getting reinforced elsewhere, at home, Friends, etc.   so it's not like they are getting indoctrinated in a class.

Daniel Dennett, a figurehead of the so-called "New Atheism" movement, has been calling for exactly this for years. I think I agree. Teaching kids how religions have developed and some of their basic concepts and similarities/differences would be helpful in fostering their critical thinking skills.

I have to say I'm (pleasantly) surprised you're in favor of it, as many of Dennett's right wing opponents have been attacking him over the idea for years, seemingly because they don't want religion being taught unless it's to specifically teach children that it's true.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-17-2015, 10:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So "your" all good with the Muslim call to prayer in school since it is the same lord and being exposed to such is always a good thing?

Call to prayer is actually forcing kids to pray.

Catholic/christian schools don't even force kids to pray.

If you are going to make a comparison please try and make it at least relevant.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-17-2015, 10:48 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Daniel Dennett, a figurehead of the so-called "New Atheism" movement, has been calling for exactly this for years. I think I agree. Teaching kids how religions have developed and some of their basic concepts and similarities/differences would be helpful in fostering their critical thinking skills.

I have to say I'm (pleasantly) surprised you're in favor of it, as many of Dennett's right wing opponents have been attacking him over the idea for years, seemingly because they don't want religion being taught unless it's to specifically teach children that it's true.

Talking about God is never a bad thing. Although I am sure your atheist buddy here would want to mark all this with .... Well this is made up .... In the end it comes down to who is teaching the matieral. personally I would love to teach this clas. I think it would be quite interesting. And would really invoke some great discussion.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-18-2015, 12:04 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Talking about God is never a bad thing.    Although I am sure your atheist buddy here would want to mark all this with .... Well this is made up ....    In the end it comes down to who is teaching the matieral.   personally I would love to teach this clas.   I think it would be quite interesting.  And would really invoke some great discussion.

No. He wants it taught purely from a historical/sociological angle with no comment on whether any doctrines or beliefs are untrue or not.

For example, with Christianity, you would teach about the culture in which it was founded, what other nearby religions were teaching and around at the time and their influence, the original church "fathers" and how their opinions shaped Christian dogma, how the books of the Bible were assembled into the canon, what basic Christian theology is (stuff like original sin, atonement, etc.), the history of some of the various denominations and their differences... Then get into how these beliefs grew, how those beliefs were used by societies, etc.

And then the same type of lessons on the other major world religions. Presumably, information about cults and how they form would come into play, too.

Tl;dr: There's no "God is real" or "God isn't real" in the proposal. Just the objective facts about how/when the various religions formed, what they teach, and how they influence society.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-17-2015, 11:59 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Call to prayer is actually forcing kids to pray.  

Catholic/christian  schools don't even force kids to pray.  

If you are going to make a comparison  please  try and make it at least relevant.

Can't speak for Catholics. But as somebody who attended a conservative Baptist school for a few years in my youth, I can tell you that if I would have declined to pray (or at least close my eyes and pretend I was), I'd have been in a world of trouble.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-17-2015, 11:59 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Call to prayer is actually forcing kids to pray.  

Catholic/christian  schools don't even force kids to pray.  

If you are going to make a comparison  please  try and make it at least relevant.

Okay, well let's just expose the kids to Allah since it is the same lord and that is always a good thing. 

[*Nately120*]

(10-15-2015, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's contrary to what some of the hard-liners on the right believe about education.

+super rep

(10-17-2015, 11:59 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Catholic/christian  schools don't even force kids to pray.   

They sure did when I went! I got a D on my report card once because I didn't want to sing in church.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-18-2015, 12:57 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Okay, well let's just expose the kids to Allah since it is the same lord and that is always a good thing. 

Sure lets show them the difference between God and Allah . I will happily let that stand on it own.

[StLucieBengal]

(10-18-2015, 12:25 AM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Can't speak for Catholics. But as somebody who attended a conservative Baptist school for a few years in my youth, I can tell you that if I would have declined to pray (or at least close my eyes and pretend I was), I'd have been in a world of trouble.

Closing eyes isn't praying. It's being respectful of the moment while others may be praying .

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-18-2015, 04:10 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Closing eyes isn't praying.   It's being respectful of the moment while others may be praying .

I don't think you get it. If I had told a teacher, "I do not pray during morning prayer, I just close my eyes and act like I do to be respectful", I would have been in trouble.

Mioreover, I don't think someone quietly leaving their eyes open and staring at whatever is disrespecting anything.