Kavanaugh SCOTUS hearings

[GMDino]

(09-26-2018, 02:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It doesn't matter if they care.  There is an FBI investigation before confirmation votes.  4 or 5 of them have been done previously, and not a word then or during this current one.  And don't pretend the Dems care or they wouldn't have sat on it.  If Feinstein actually believes all this, then what she did makes her a disgusting human being.

(09-26-2018, 02:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And the Democrats don't care, either. If they cared, they would have started an investigation as soon as the accusations hit their presence. Instead, they decided politics were more important and waited until the "right" time to spring this news.

(09-26-2018, 02:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Why didn't the Democrats start one? Why is it the GOP's responsibility when the Dems had ht einformation first?

(09-26-2018, 02:48 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Didn't even have to start one.  Just turn it over to the FBI when they were doing theirs.

Why Feinstein didn't release it wooner has be gone over.

The FBI can't do anything more unless the POTUS or the GOP who run the committee request it.

Everyone agrees an investigation would clear all this up but the GOP doesn't want one and the longer they delay such an investigation is just longer they can say the "Democrats" are delaying the vote they already agreed they would approve.

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/09/26/brett-kavanaugh-too-many-beers-but-never-any-sexual-assault/1432078002/

Quote:Brett Kavanaugh responds to sexual assault allegations: 'I have never done that to her or to anyone'


WASHINGTON – Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh acknowledged drinking "too many" beers on occasion during high school and doing things "that make me cringe now" in prepared testimony to be delivered Thursday, but he forcefully denied allegations of sexual assault.

Responding to Christine Blasey Ford, who has alleged that Kavanaugh assaulted her at a house party in the early 1980s, the federal appeals court judge declared his innocence under oath.

"I am here this morning to answer these allegations and to tell the truth," Kavanaugh said in his prepared remarks, which were released Wednesday ahead of Thursday's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing. "And the truth is that I have never sexually assaulted anyone – not in high school, not in college, not ever."

Kavanaugh and Ford are scheduled to appear separately at Thursday's hearing and field questions from Republicans and Democrats. Republicans plan to have a professional sex crimes investigator do much of the questioning for them.

"I categorically and unequivocally deny the allegation against me by Dr. Ford," Kavanaugh said in the prepared remarks. "I never had any sexual or physical encounter of any kind with Dr. Ford.

"I am not questioning that Dr. Ford may have been sexually assaulted by some person in some place at some time. But I have never done that to her or to anyone. I am innocent of this charge," Kavanaugh said.
Kavanaugh, 53, was on the verge of being confirmed to the ninth and most important seat on the equally divided Supreme Court when Ford's accusation came to light nearly two weeks ago. Since then, two other women have come forward with
unsubstantiated allegations.

Ford, a college professor in California, sent the committee statements from her husband and three other people in which they attested to hearing her story years ago about being assaulted by Kavanaugh. 
Kavanaugh sent the committee a copy of his calendar from the summer of 1982, which did not mention the specific party in question.

The Judiciary Committee has scheduled a meeting Friday to vote on Kavanaugh's nomination. Republican leaders have said they may bring Kavanaugh's nomination to a vote of the full Senate by early next week.

That would be before the other accusations have been fully investigated. A second woman, Deborah Ramirez, has accused Kavanaugh of exposing himself during a Yale University drinking game when they were both freshmen. And a third, Julie Swetnick, said Wednesday that she observed Kavanaugh drink to excess and "engage in abusive behavior" toward girls in high school.

Kavanaugh sought to address all the accusations in his prepared testimony.

"Over the past few days, other false and uncorroborated accusations have been aired," he said. "There has been a frenzy to come up with something – anything, no matter how far-fetched or odious – that will block a vote on my nomination. These are last-minute smears, pure and simple."

To the bold:  Will they ask him to elaborate?  

[*michaelsean*]

(09-26-2018, 03:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Wasn't it turned over to the FBI by Feinstein? I thought I recall that happening, but unless directed to look into it, they aren't going to act.

Not during their background investigation.  

[*michaelsean*]

(09-26-2018, 03:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: Why Feinstein didn't release it wooner has be gone over.

The FBI can't do anything more unless the POTUS or the GOP who run the committee request it.

Everyone agrees an investigation would clear all this up but the GOP doesn't want one and the longer they delay such an investigation is just longer they can say the "Democrats" are delaying the vote they already agreed they would approve.

What would an investigation clear up?   She isn't going to retract and he isn't going to admit. How would he prove to your satisfaction that he's innocent?  We all saw this in '91. Have the vote.  There's a good chance two Republicans will vote no then you guys got everything you wanted.  

[GMDino]

(09-26-2018, 03:40 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What would an investigation clear up?   She isn't going to retract and he isn't going to admit.  We all saw this in '91. Have the vote.  There's a good chance two Republicans will vote no then you guys got everything you wanted.  

Well you guys have all these questions...if you don't think an investigation will do any good why ask?  You've made up your mind.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-26-2018, 03:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well you guys have all these questions...if you don't think an investigation will do any good why ask?  You've made up your mind.

I've made up my mind that not everyone who claims something gets to demand an FBI investigation.  So unless these accusers can give a good reason why they waited until now when they had ample time to bring it forward when he was first nominated, or has some irrefutable compelling evidence, then no.  

I added an edit in my last post.  What can he do to prove these allegations wrong?  What could an investigation turn up that would satisfy you of his innocence?  

[jj22]

An FBI investigation would interview the witnesses and put the accuser or anyone who lied in jeopardy of serving time which is what any innocent person would want if they were wrongfully accused right? I mean is this the twilight zone? It would clear Kav's name and punish those who make false accusations.

Trump supporters want us to think that the only people wanting FBI investigation and making sworn statements under oath is those who are lying and the ones who don't want and FBI investigation and are refusing to testify under oath or submit a sworn statement (witness that was named) are telling the truth. They are actually attacking those requesting an FBI investigation as if that's some sort of negative? It's only a negative to the guilty, and those who are trying to protect a guilty person. Pretty obvious.

I just don't get it. But getting people to use common sense when it comes to politics is proving harder than it should be.

They call those of us who use common sense "extremist".

[*PhilHos*]

(09-26-2018, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: An FBI investigation would interview the witnesses and put the accuser or anyone who lied in jeopardy of serving time which is what any innocent person would want if they were wrongfully accused right? I mean is this the twilight zone? It would clear Kav's name and punish those who make false accusations.

This operates under the assumption that there's tangible evidence outside of statements made by the accuser and accused. If, as I think those in Kavanaugh's camp suspect (if not also elsewhere), there's nothing more than her word versus his, an FBI investigation is not going to do ANYTHING. It's not going exonerate Kavanaugh and get Ford in legal trouble nor is it going to verify Ford's accusation and get Kavanaugh in trouble. So if an investigation is going to turn up nothing, then why would you push for one other than for appearance sake and is made clear by statements, people from both side already have their minds made up.

[GMDino]

(09-26-2018, 03:53 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I've made up my mind that not everyone who claims something gets to demand an FBI investigation.  So unless these accusers can give a good reason why they waited until now when they had ample time to bring it forward when he was first nominated, or has some irrefutable compelling evidence, then no.  

I added an edit in my last post.  What can he do to prove these allegations wrong?  What could an investigation turn up that would satisfy you of his innocence?  

Again, there are plenty of reasons for it taking longer than you or the GOP wanted for these women (plural) to come forward.  If that's all it takes to convince you there is no there there then so be it.

(09-26-2018, 04:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This operates under the assumption that there's tangible evidence outside of statements made by the accuser and accused. If, as I think those in Kavanaugh's camp suspect (if not also elsewhere), there's nothing more than her word versus his, an FBI investigation is not going to do ANYTHING. It's not going exonerate Kavanaugh and get Ford in legal trouble nor is it going to verify Ford's accusation and get Kavanaugh in trouble. So if an investigation is going to turn up nothing, then why would you push for one other than for appearance sake and is made clear by statements, people from both side already have their minds made up.

I'm definitely using that if I am ever arrested:  I'll just tell the police that I assume there is no tangible evidence so there is no reason to do an investigation to look for any.  Many people think they won't find it so why bother. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-26-2018, 04:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm definitely using that if I am ever arrested:  I'll just tell the police that I assume there is no tangible evidence so there is no reason to do an investigation to look for any.  Many people think they won't find it so why bother. 

Ummmm, you do realize it's not up to Kavanaugh whether or not the FBI investigates, right? Because based on this post, you seem to think it's Kavanaugh's decision. It's not. 

[GMDino]

(09-26-2018, 04:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Ummmm, you do realize it's not up to Kavanaugh whether or not the FBI investigates, right? Because based on this post, you seem to think it's Kavanaugh's decision. It's not. 

I do.  Although he has not come out and said he demands an investigation either, which I would want if I knew I was innocent.  Maybe that's just me.

But I'll all for your theory that if we already "know" we can't get an evidence why even bother starting an investigation.  

[Belsnickel]

(09-26-2018, 03:38 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Not during their background investigation.  

Did Feinstein receive it before or after the FBI investigation had already concluded?

(09-26-2018, 04:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This operates under the assumption that there's tangible evidence outside of statements made by the accuser and accused. If, as I think those in Kavanaugh's camp suspect (if not also elsewhere), there's nothing more than her word versus his, an FBI investigation is not going to do ANYTHING. It's not going exonerate Kavanaugh and get Ford in legal trouble nor is it going to verify Ford's accusation and get Kavanaugh in trouble. So if an investigation is going to turn up nothing, then why would you push for one other than for appearance sake and is made clear by statements, people from both side already have their minds made up.

This really isn't a he said/she said, as much as we'd like to pretend it is. There are other people that could speak to the events that occurred in these three allegations, we know because they have.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-26-2018, 04:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: I do.  Although he has not come out and said he demands an investigation either, which I would want if I knew I was innocent.  Maybe that's just me.

But I'll all for your theory that if we already "know" we can't get an evidence why even bother starting an investigation.  

Right. Because he hasn't asked for an investigation means he's guilty. There's absolutely NO other reason.

(09-26-2018, 04:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Did Feinstein receive it before or after the FBI investigation had already concluded?


This really isn't a he said/she said, as much as we'd like to pretend it is. There are other people that could speak to the events that occurred in these three allegations, we know because they have.

Aside from Judge, who else was supposedly there that could testify to whether or not Kavanaugh did what Ford alleges?

[Belsnickel]

(09-26-2018, 05:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Aside from Judge, who else was supposedly there that could testify to whether or not Kavanaugh did what Ford alleges?

I'm not just speaking about Ford's allegation.

[jj22]

Can we at least agree if you are innocent you'd want an FBI investigation? Or has it come to not even wanting an FBI investigation if you are innocent?

[jj22]

(09-26-2018, 05:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Right. Because he hasn't asked for an investigation means he's guilty. There's absolutely NO other reason.


Aside from Judge, who else was supposedly there that could testify to whether or not Kavanaugh did what Ford alleges?

There was just a new accuser who sworn under oath in a statement she witnessed them drugging girls to rape. She would be a candidate to be interviewed by the FBI.

The statement was submitted under penalty of a felony. That's enough for an innocent person to want an FBI investigation into it.

[Belsnickel]

(09-26-2018, 05:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: Can we at least agree if you are innocent you'd want an FBI investigation? Or has it come to not even wanting an FBI investigation if you are innocent?

You're forgetting about the Deep State conspiracy theorists out there.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-26-2018, 05:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: Can we at least agree if you are innocent you'd want an FBI investigation? Or has it come to not even wanting an FBI investigation if you are innocent?

If I'm him no, because there will be something else after.  This is a rather blatant attempt to run it past the elections and thwart his confirmation.  The Republicans played dirty so this is payback, but if I'm the nominee I don't want to not be confirmed because of this payback.

[Belsnickel]

(09-26-2018, 05:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote: If I'm him no, because there will be something else after.  This is a rather blatant attempt to run it past the elections and thwart his confirmation.  The Republicans played dirty so this is payback, but if I'm the nominee I don't want to not be confirmed because of this payback.

They can put a time limit on the investigation. The GOP can hold a vote any time between now and the end of the year. So if a requested investigation comes back with nothing, hold the vote. Easy peasey lemon squeezy.

[Belsnickel]

Here's my thing with all the discussion about this just being Democrats attempting to delay this. This sort of thing didn't happen for Gorsuch, who was nominated for a straight up stolen seat. If there were any shady tactics to be done, that would have been the nominee to do it for.

Also, for the number of people it would take to pull together a conspiracy like this, to have these three accusers come out like this, it would've involved too many people. Something would have been outed by now. Especially given the hell Ford has gone through and the other two are likely experiencing as a result. They wouldn't put themselves through that for no reason.