Let's examine Biden record on the economy

[masonbengals fan]

No matter how you cut it he's no friend to the American energy sector.

[*pally*]

(04-26-2023, 06:25 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: No matter how you cut it he's no friend to the American energy sector.

There is more to the American energy sector than fossil fuels

[masonbengals fan]

Which one is supplying your power as we speak?

Edit :Not saying you may just be tied to a solar panel as we speak but chances are...

[GMDino]

(04-26-2023, 06:25 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: No matter how you cut it he's no friend to the American energy sector.

If you mean he doesn't bend over and say "may I please have another" while the "energy sector" can do whatever they want environment be damned...you're right.

There HAS to be a balance against what is the inevitable greed of any industry in this country.

[*pally*]

I don't have solar here in Ohio. I did when I lived in Kansas. We gave electricity back to the grid.

We cannot continue to rely solely on fossil fuels. It doesn't mean they are going away. Where it makes sense to convert to other sources make it possible to do so. That is Biden's position. Demand the fossil fuel industry to become more environmentally safe. That is Biden's position. Demand fossil fuel users to make their products more efficient and environmentally safe. That is Biden's position. Expanding drilling into environmentally vulnerable areas only as a last resort. That is Biden's position. Remove tax breaks and giveaways to oil and gas producers who refuse to pass on their windfalls to the consumer while making record profits. That is Biden's position.

Coal plants are closing. It is cheaper and more efficient for power companies to produce electricity in other ways than using coal. That has been the trend for decades. It has nothing to do with Biden. Republicans who keep going to Appalachia and promising "coal will come back" are lying and they know it. Biden is at least offering opportunities for displaced miners to make a living https://apnews.com/article/biden-coal-mine-clean-energy-solar-manchin-3046634c240bbc60998ab84d189a1109

Biden's position has never been an all-or-nothing proposition but that is what has been portrayed by right-wing media. But of course, we learned from one of Fox's internal documents in the Dominion lawsuit, that their plan was to label ANYTHING proposed by Biden as "socialist"

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-26-2023, 06:25 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: No matter how you cut it he's no friend to the American energy sector.

As far as I know they made record benefits lastly mostly playing with inflation in pure greed. 

You don't have to be friend with unfriendly people.

[masonbengals fan]

Apparently Biden is the best thing since sliced bread & if I wasn't completely hypnotized by Fox news I'd see it too. 

[KillerGoose]

(04-26-2023, 08:08 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Apparently Biden is the best thing since sliced bread & if I wasn't completely hypnotized by Fox news I'd see it too. 

I think we need to be careful with this line of thinking. We are already in an incredibly polarizing political landscape and this fits snugly into that environment. I don't think you have said anything crazy in this thread as Biden isn't a friend to the fossil fuel industry, which is what I think your point was. However, whenever we get into the realm of "I said something and someone disagreed, I guess I am just a big 'ole dumb dumb", we really stunt any further conversation. It benefits everyone if we are willing to be wrong and understand the reality. Biden isn't a great president by any means, but he also hasn't been a miserable one either and a lot of that nuance gets lost in political conversations. 

All in all, you are correct by saying that he isn't a friend to the FF industry but it is also fair to point out alternative sources of energy that he has attempted to incentivize. He also hasn't really inhibited the FF industry because it is still 100% necessary and a massive part of the economy. A transition needs to be made but that transition will be slow. No one is saying that Biden is the best thing since sliced bread. At least, not as far as I can tell. 

[Stewy]

(04-26-2023, 07:16 PM)pally Wrote: Biden's position has never been an all-or-nothing proposition but that is what has been portrayed by right-wing media. 

Biden campaigned that he was going to tear down the US oil and gas industry.  Literally said this.  On his first day he did everything he could to damage the energy sector even things not within his power to do (he's lost continually in the courts).  His own party rage at him in ignorance to be ALL OR NOTHING because their F'king stupid and don't understand energy and infrastructure at all.  So it isn't just the right wing media saying "all or nothing". it's his own damn idiot party.

Pally most of the following rant is not directed at you specifically.
____________________________________________________

Because energy has been so politicized, everyone is being fed a suitcase of ignorance.  I won't even call them lies, because most of what I read is just plain ill informed.

The biggest idiocy out there is that we expect 50% EVs on the road by 2030, which is impossible.  Literally impossible.  Yet your most staunch liberally keep yelling about it.  

Why Impossible?
 - Power Grid Infrastructure - is old and currently failing all over the country (Cali Brown outs, Texas recent failures).  Putting 50% EVs on the roads would collapse the grid completely.  We are one of the only modernized societies with power cables above ground.  Everyone else buries them to protect them.  The LOW estimates for upgrading our infrastructure for a 50% is TWO TRILLION dollars and no one has a plan to poney up the bill.  No upgraded power gris = no EV future. Period.  There is NO going around it.  The grid can't handle it MIC DROP.  PERIOD.  THE END.
- Power Generation - The power generation DOES NOT EXIST for a 50% EV future.  Which means TRILLIONS in new investment in power supply.  Renewables can cover some of that, but again it will take TRILLIONS in investment to generate enough power for an EV future.  
- Renewables are not and never will be Sustainable - This is something almost never spoken of but it is the 3rd elephant in the room.  The lack of renewable sustainability is why HCs will NEVER go away, which makes activists calling for an end to HCs gives them ZERO credibility and shows they understand NOTHING of the reality of our world.  Why do i say this?  Simply wind droughts are real (Britain had to re-start coal plants two winters ago because of this).  Bad weather has a much broader effect on renewables vs. HCs.  CLOUDS!  Drought effects Hydro.  This is a real thing out West right now.

Meanwhile, all we hear from liberal advocates is HCs are evil.  Get rid of them now (head of the UN for one).  Yeah and where is your power generation coming from?  Where is all the electricity coming from for that EV future?  Renewables aint it now or for the next few decades, but try to propose switching a coal plant to natural Gas and you're evil.  Try to get permits for a Nuclear Power Plant?  NOT IN MY BACKYARD.  You know a new refinery hasn't been built in the US since the 70's???  How are people going to react when they have 10'000 windmill outside their window???  I know the answer - not in my backyard!

Hypocrites or willful ignorance, that's 99% of the people talking to you about our energy future.

[masonbengals fan]

I couldn't have said it better.

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-26-2023, 08:08 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Apparently Biden is the best thing since sliced bread & if I wasn't completely hypnotized by Fox news I'd see it too. 

Nobody said that but when you deliver single line punchlines as argument don't be surprised if people answers you with some kind of doubt. 

BTW, the best thing since 2016 without a doubt. 

[masonbengals fan]

When a large percentage of post in our P&R get a Fox news reference don't be surprised when I do the same.

Certainly nothing personal against Pally I consider her to be a valuable poster on the thebengalsboard. We simply don't see Biden's tenure in the same light.

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-26-2023, 09:23 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: When a large percentage of post in our P&R get a Fox news reference don't be surprised when I do the same.  

Certainly nothing personal against Pally I consider her to be a valuable poster on the thebengalsboard. We simply don't see Biden's tenure in the same light.

As long as he doesn't try to hang Kamala Harris in front of the capitol by his personal mob, he does have for sure a slight margin againt his future opponent. 

Or maybe we didn't have the true version why his people made a gallow while yelling "Hang Mike Pence" on world wide TV ...

It might not be a big deal for some of you but it was for some other people. 

But somehow conservatives have decided to go all in with the same horse. 

Don't be surprised if you got Biden again. 

[masonbengals fan]

I would not be surprised.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2023, 09:29 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: As long as he doesn't try to hang Kamala Harris in front of the capitol by his personal mob, he does have for sure a slight margin againt his future opponent. 

Or maybe we didn't have the true version why his people made a gallow while yelling "Hang Mike Pence" on world wide TV ...

It might not be a big deal for some of you but it was for some other people. 

But somehow conservatives have decided to go all in with the same horse. 

Don't be surprised if you got Biden again. 

That is one big mess of nonsensical rambling that has absolutely zero connectivity to the point of this thread.

Are you deliberately attempting to troll or derail the thread, Arturo?

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-26-2023, 09:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is one big mess of nonsensical rambling that has absolutely zero connectivity to the point of this thread.

Are you deliberately attempting to troll or derail the thread, Arturo?

Absolutely not but the point of the thread is somehow to prove that it will be better to vote for the other side in 2024 right ? 

My point is that until the choice of the conservatives voters will be the one we know, you can make as much threads you want to prove he is bad, he can't be worse than anything else. 

You have to watch what you sell before trying to discredit your rivals. 

BTW, the point of the economy has been adressed a long time ago.

[GMDino]

(04-26-2023, 09:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is one big mess of nonsensical rambling that has absolutely zero connectivity to the point of this thread.

Are you deliberately attempting to troll or derail the thread, Arturo?

Seems like a reasonable response saying Biden is clearly better than Trump (his likely opponent) based on the things Trump inspired on January 6th.  And that in light of Mason's opinion of Trump that how Trump acted and how he is the leading the republican primaries right now if they aren't careful they'll just get Biden again.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2023, 09:50 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Absolutely not but the point of the thread is somehow to prove that it will be better to vote for the other side in 2024 right ? 

Umm, the topic is Biden on the economy..  Rambling references toward a former President have nothing to do with how the current POTUS is doing with the US economy.

[Arturo Bandini]

(04-26-2023, 09:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Umm, the topic is Biden on the economy..  Rambling references toward a former President have nothing to do with how the current POTUS is doing with the US economy.

It could have been. If it had been created by a neutral poster who doesn't change his personal story or arguments to fit his narrative. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-26-2023, 10:00 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: It could have been. If it had been created by a neutral poster who doesn't change his personal story or arguments to fit his narrative. 

It's alright, I only brought it up in hopes of steering the conversation back toward the OP, rather than devolving into another Trump hate thread.