Let's take an honest look.

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 03:32 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I get Bidenomics is not to blame for everything going on out there, but using it as the top name in the haze of the state of things. It is impacting all service sectors. Fast food paying a starting wage of between 12 and 20 bucks an hour is insane! I agree the industry does need to do more to pay employees more if they are there long term, but if the wages do not move, then it is up to the employee to get out of Dodge and make a better living.

I think people are head over heels for DJT saying he would eliminate the tax on tips, but what about the employees in the kitchen still being taxes, and likely making far less hourly than servers, who have less to do with the food and food safety. It is tough finding good applicants that will last beyond the first paycheck. Maybe moreagents for vetting unemployment claims are needed?

I agree a lot goes on the parents as well, and hate thinking this may be the start of a generational thing  that we will have to edure.

You just made me realize something. Every time I go to a Mexican restaurant, I always give a large tip, and they never charge it. When I get a bill for $50, and I tip $15 to make the bill $65, not once have they charged me the tip. Hmmm..... 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 11:59 AM)pally Wrote: Put a lot of the blame on the service industry itself.  They spent decades using and abusing employees.  Lousy hours, lousy benefits, lousy pay, lousy customers, coupled wth managers and owners who worked hard to cheat them out of hours or pay.  In a different job market the employees were programmed to believe they were stuck with a crummy job becase they were expendable.  Then COVID hit, and the pressure these service workers were placed under increased 10fold.  They were forced to work as "essential" employee.  They were abused by customers all for still lousy pay.  These employees wised up.  Some little minumum wage job isnt worth what they went through.  So they quit in droves...oops turns out these good workers weren't so expendable afterall.  

No.

That is a false narrative.

It is affecting great hotels owners as well as the crappy ones, the best restaurants, as well as Arbys. You are correct than Covid helped with the send of entitlement, since employees could just make a claim of covid, and the facility would accept it, and they would get the government payday and stay on it. I saw it happen all through covid, money for nothing, with a 600 dollar bonus. If you're getting 1k a week to play video games and watch Netflix, you might not be in a hurry to return to work and be productive for 400 a week.

Many grow up working fast food as a first job and learn a work ethic. If they didn't get promoted, they moved on, as I did. They use their skills or work ethic to earn another job, and the process repeats itself if they feel their skills are not appreciated.

If you've been a fry cook for 10 years, it says more about you, your skill set, and your work ethic, than it says anything about the employer or industry.

Service industry jobs are important, and should be appreciated much, much more, as the public is sometimes terrible to them, but the entry level jobs are entry level, needing little to no skill for a reason, and get paid accordingly to start.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 03:38 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You just made me realize something. Every time I go to a Mexican restaurant, I always give a large tip, and they never charge it. When I get a bill for $50, and I tip $15 to make the bill $65, not once have they charged me the tip. Hmmm..... 

Always know what is on your gift card before you go into the restaurant. Some wait staff will lie to you if you say you have a gift card but do not know what is on it. It turns a 45 dollar gift card into 20 and a 25 dollar tip they did not earn.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 02:41 PM)pally Wrote: The vast majority of service employees are not tipped employees.  Try being a hotel housekeeping having to clean 20-25 double rooms in 8 hours.  Try being a grocery store clerk.  Try being a line cook.

These are hard back breaking low wage jobs where you are on your feet constantly. We exect perfection from their performances but somehow we dont want to pay them for it

Line cook in a diner is easily one of the most under paid, under appreciated gig out there. Similarly, I have seen hotel owners who clean rooms themselves as well, or try to use other staff, like kitchen/food prep staff to do so. Grocery clerk is out the door soon, as we see with self check out, as it takes no complex skill.

People are being paid what their skills, ambition, and work ethic translate to.

The real minimum wage is zero, after all.

[depthchart]

.



Will we have to Tip the Artificially Intelligent Robots that take the waiter & waitress jobs someday ?  


Will the Former waiters & waitresses Tip the Artificially Intelligent Robots that took their jobs ?  

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 03:59 PM)depthchart Wrote: .



Will we have to Tip the Artificially Intelligent Robots that take the waiter & waitress jobs someday ?  


Will the Former waiters & waitresses Tip the Artificially Intelligent Robots that took their jobs ?  

Is there a chance you can take the AI Robot home at the end of its shift?

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 03:59 PM)depthchart Wrote: .



Will we have to Tip the Artificially Intelligent Robots that take the waiter & waitress jobs someday ?  


Will the Former waiters & waitresses Tip the Artificially Intelligent Robots that took their jobs ?  

Going to go out on a limb here and say yes. The reason I say that is because some places force the tip into your bill. I can assume the same will go to help pay for the robots. It will be up to us if we decide to give them our service or not.

(06-11-2024, 04:02 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Is there a chance you can take the AI Robot home at the end of its shift?

Speaking of, will I ever be pleased enough to tip an AI lap dancer? My thoughts lean towards no.

[depthchart]

(06-11-2024, 04:02 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Is there a chance you can take the AI Robot home at the end of its shift?

Getting forced to go home with Customers may be the final Thread that causes them to Revolt, 

so they better be given the choice to Decline.  

So I am saying that there could still be a "chance" but many Customers would still strike out... 

[*pally*]

(06-11-2024, 03:51 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Line cook in a diner is easily one of the most under paid, under appreciated gig out there. Similarly, I have seen hotel owners who clean rooms themselves as well, or try to use other staff, like kitchen/food prep staff to do so. Grocery clerk is out the door soon, as we see with self check out, as it takes no complex skill.

People are being paid what their skills, ambition, and work ethic translate to.

The real minimum wage is zero, after all.

When the lowest rung on the employment ladder is underpaid the entire pay scale is suppressed.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 04:29 PM)pally Wrote: When the lowest rung on the employment ladder is underpaid the entire pay scale is suppressed.

That is another false narrative.


The real minimum wage is zero.

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 04:29 PM)pally Wrote: When the lowest rung on the employment ladder is underpaid the entire pay scale is suppressed.

I believe many establishments split the tips between the service and kitchen staff. Not sure if that's the norm, but I know it's popular to do so. My daughter owned a bar and all CC and cash (cash tips were on trust to do the right thing) tips were split between the bartenders, waitresses, and the kitchen staff. They made about $1k each per day on weekends and usually 1/3rd of that during weekdays, but they made great money. Of course her bar was on a lake in Celina with boat dock and car parking so that helped. 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 04:17 PM)depthchart Wrote: Getting forced to go home with Customers may be the final Thread that causes them to Revolt, 

so they better be given the choice to Decline.  

So I am saying that there could still be a "chance" but many Customers would still strike out... 

I am on board with that, as long as they are made in the image of movie robots, pre-2000. The robot who looks like Bishop would have to do that thing with your hand and the knife..

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 02:41 PM)pally Wrote: The vast majority of service employees are not tipped employees.  Try being a hotel housekeeping having to clean 20-25 double rooms in 8 hours.  Try being a grocery store clerk.  Try being a line cook.

These are hard back breaking low wage jobs where you are on your feet constantly. We exect perfection from their performances but somehow we dont want to pay them for it

I'm watching Last Call on CNBC right now and it appears a lot of restaurants are starting the trend of giving their best employees more hours, and eliminating the rest. That's what I would do. Give them 40hrs. Git rid of the under performers.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 08:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm watching Last Call on CNBC right now and it appears a lot of restaurants are starting the trend of giving their best employees more hours, and eliminating the rest. That's what I would do. Give them 40hrs. Git rid of the under performers.

In the industry, I am seeing barebones staffing, if they can find them, and working salary managers to the bone, where they are basically making less than 10.00/hour when you factor in the hours they are working.

Similarly keeping employees below the hours that would require giving them benefits.

They do not have the staffing to function properly. They do not have the staff to afford to fire the crappy workers who skip shifts or refuse to clean. They feel guilty for leaning on the good workers to do the shit work, while the lazy play on their phones because the facilities need bodies.

I agree what you are saying should be the trend, and pay the people appropriately for their loyalty and dedication.

[GMDino]

(06-11-2024, 02:00 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The better question is, should it be so hard to provide good service? If you apply for and accept a job with a company, it's not much to expect you to do your job. This has been a staple of the food industry for decades. Honestly, I think its a good model. If a waitress gives up good service, I tip 20-25%. If her service was so-so, but she was super busy, she still gets the same. But if it's so-so and her effort is minimal, I give 10%. 

Americans used to take pride in their work. And mostly, I think they still do. But the decline in work ethic is a lot worse than what I would have expected had you asked me 10yrs ago. But, to answer your question above. The occupations you listen above have (except politicains) have traditionally been good paying jobs and rarely would you get bad customer service (unless you were calling an 800# that passed you on to a foreign country).

But, I'm sure you will come up with an exception.

People used to get paid well for good work too.

Then they busted the unions and sent jobs overseas so the owners could make more profit.

The workers didn't do that.

So today a lot of people will work just hard enough to make what the owners will pay them.  Work harder and the company makes more money and you get a pizza party.

Not every company and not every employee, but we are where we are because "greed is good" destroyed the American way.

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-11-2024, 09:10 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: In the industry, I am seeing barebones staffing, if they can find them, and working salary managers to the bone, where they are basically making less than 10.00/hour when you factor in the hours they are working.

Similarly keeping employees below the hours that would require giving them benefits.

They do not have the staffing to function properly. They do not have the staff to afford to fire the crappy workers who skip shifts or refuse to clean. They feel guilty for leaning on the good workers to do the shit work, while the lazy play on their phones because the facilities need bodies.

I agree what you are saying should be the trend, and pay the people appropriately for their loyalty and dedication.

Care to take a guess which party is trying to make sure those salary managers who are getting worked to the bone don’t get overtime pay?








https://www.huffpost.com/entry/republicans-block-overtime-rule_n_66630ef1e4b05ad04e7d90d0

I can’t imagine supporting the party that worships a guy who shits on golden toilets who became very famous with his tv catch phase “you’re fired” and being naive enough to think he cares about workers. It’s very sad. Hell, he told them to their face the other day he doesn’t care about them. And they laugh and giggle.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-12-2024, 12:00 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Care to take a guess which party is trying to make sure those salary managers who are getting worked to the bone don’t get overtime pay?


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/republicans-block-overtime-rule_n_66630ef1e4b05ad04e7d90d0

I can’t imagine supporting the party that worships a guy who shits on golden toilets who became very famous with his tv catch phase “you’re fired” and being naive enough to think he cares about workers. It’s very sad. Hell, he told them to their face the other day he doesn’t care about them. And they laugh and giggle.

I support that in many walk of life, as salaried employees  are overworked in many industries, so why cap it the threshold at 58k? They are still making out paying the person 59k to avoid the OT, and then having them work the same 60-80 hours a week.

It is a good idea, but not going far enough.

I get what you're saying, and others cannot imagine supporting Joe Biden for a litany of reasons as well.

Terrible choices.

[*pally*]

(06-11-2024, 09:10 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: In the industry, I am seeing barebones staffing, if they can find them, and working salary managers to the bone, where they are basically making less than 10.00/hour when you factor in the hours they are working.

Similarly keeping employees below the hours that would require giving them benefits.

They do not have the staffing to function properly. They do not have the staff to afford to fire the crappy workers who skip shifts or refuse to clean. They feel guilty for leaning on the good workers to do the shit work, while the lazy play on their phones because the facilities need bodies.

I agree what you are saying should be the trend, and pay the people appropriately for their loyalty and dedication.

Its all in a quest of never ending ever growing profits.  Used to be a company could show stable profits and pay comfortable dividends.  CEOs in the 1970s made about 20-30% the average worker salary.  Now they make 200-300%.  Stock holders are no longer individuals but now it all belongs to the Board of Directors , Hedge Funds, and other institutional holders.  The oly goal for companies now is to make as much profit as possible before they implode.  They don't care who they leave in the wake.

Employees have finally gotten wise.  They are no longer going to devote their lives to a job that will screw them down the line.  They don't see the benefit because in many cases there is none.  In a country where the unemployment is 4%, another job is easily found

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 09:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: Then they busted the unions and sent jobs overseas so the owners could make more profit.

The workers didn't do that.

That's debatable and I think we did discussed this in a union thread months back. This is something we don't agree on. Unions can be bullies, and what destroyed my town. They got greedy and kept going on strike for more, more, more. Trust me, they were making great money. The town was booming, people owned homes, boats, cars campers and whatever other toys they wanted. Problem was, they were never satisfied. GM, Westinghouse, UCBC, Triangle Pacific all closed up and moved.
My town is not the poster child for all unions. In fact, some unions are trash and do little for the employees except collect dues. But it is a poster child of what union greed can do. And in this case it destroyed a town. So, I guess greed works both ways.

[CJD]

(06-11-2024, 04:38 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: That is another false narrative.


The real minimum wage is zero.

The real minimum wage meaning slavery?