MYTH: GOP is better for the Economy

[SunsetBengal]

(05-24-2023, 06:32 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Except your link and the fact it's mostly red doesn't change the fact that an Alaskan told you that most folks are independent. Mostly conservative leaning independents, it would seem, but still independent.

People can only vote for the folks who run. If no hardline independent runs, and the folks are prone to lean right, who do you think they'd vote for?

I don't know Alaska's state constitution - I'll leave that to you to tell me since you know everything about everything all the time - so I don't know the rules for running for house, Senate, or governor.

What is a "hardline" independent?  I've always been under the idea that independents were more flexible and free flowing, the exact opposite of "hardline". 

[BigPapaKain]

(05-24-2023, 11:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You two are precious.  A well meaning post about hyper-partisanship and it's danger spawns a vitriolic diatribe and personal attacks.  Please never wonder why this sub-forum is dying.

Says the hyperpartisan right winger who knows better than everyone about every topic.

Oh wait I forgot - you used to vote Democrat. Just like Vinyl and pally used to vote Republican, except they're in the wrong, as is everyone who disagrees with you.

Let's talk precious.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-24-2023, 08:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What is a "hardline" independent?  I've always been under the idea that independents were more flexible and free flowing, the exact opposite of "hardline". 

I imagine it's an independent who doesn't get bought like our friends on the right and left and actually does things that cross the aisle as opposed to say a Bernie Sanders.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-24-2023, 08:36 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Says the hyperpartisan right winger who knows better than everyone about every topic.

Oh wait I forgot - you used to vote Democrat. Just like Vinyl and pally used to vote Republican, except they're in the wrong, as is everyone who disagrees with you.

Let's talk precious.

Wow, I mean you seem pretty hyper partisan in the opposite direction.  What, you don't like your polar reflection coming back toward you?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-24-2023, 08:36 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Says the hyperpartisan right winger who knows better than everyone about every topic.

Hyper-partisan?  Me?  You mean the guy who's been for same sex marriage for decades longer than Obama?  The guy who's literally never voted for a Republican candidate, ever?  My list of left leaning principles is likely longer than my right leaning ones.  Well, depending on if some "progressive" extremist is the one categorizing.

Quote:Oh wait I forgot - you used to vote Democrat. Just like Vinyl and pally used to vote Republican, except they're in the wrong, as is everyone who disagrees with you.

Are they hyper-partisan as well then?  Likely not, as you agree with them

Quote:Let's talk precious.

Let's talk your projection and your apparent inability to disagree with someone without being ugly about it.  Why don't you denigrate my profession a bit more because you're joining in on your little struggle session with your boy?  Seriously, like I said, don't wonder why this sub-forum is near dead.  My post that generated this serious of attacks was as innocuous as it was well intentioned.  But apparently that's not enough for you.  Also, aren't you Canadian?  By your own logic that means you have nothing to say about US politics at all.  At least you can't argue against anyone who actually lives here.  Again, based solely on your own logic.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-24-2023, 09:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wow, I mean you seem pretty hyper partisan in the opposite direction.  What, you don't like your polar reflection coming back toward you?

I mean I am. I've said as much. The only thing I'm not American Left on is gun control.

A quick search of my history here paints me as such. I don't have any qualms about it.

[BigPapaKain]

(05-24-2023, 09:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hyper-partisan?  Me?  You mean the guy who's been for same sex marriage for decades longer than Obama?  The guy who's literally never voted for a Republican candidate, ever?  My list of left leaning principles is likely longer than my right leaning ones.  Well, depending on if some "progressive" extremist is the one categorizing.

So you say here. Everywhere else on this subforum, not so much. 

Quote:Are they hyper-partisan as well then?  Likely not, as you agree with them

I mean sure I guess. They're not as heavy handed as some, so I don't tend to pay that much attention.

Quote:Let's talk your projection and your apparent inability to disagree with someone without being ugly about it.  Why don't you denigrate my profession a bit more because you're joining in on your little struggle session with your boy?  Seriously, like I said, don't wonder why this sub-forum is near dead.  My post that generated this serious of attacks was as innocuous as it was well intentioned.  But apparently that's not enough for you.  Also, aren't you Canadian?  By your own logic that means you have nothing to say about US politics at all.  At least you can't argue against anyone who actually lives here.  Again, based solely on your own logic.

Oh I can disagree with people plenty and be civil about it; my issue is the back handed comments and condescending tone your posts always take. And I don't have to tear down your profession - y'all do that a plenty all your own. This sub-forum is "dead" because politics quit being a clown show and "Biden does some centrist shit" isn't as engaging as "MAGA clowns storm Capitol in vain attempt to overthrow government at behest of barely self aware Cheeto". That and everyone started calling the right wingers on their bullshit so most tucked tail and ran off.

And I ain't Canadian, but I'm closer than you to that I suppose. Born and raised in Ohio. Although it's fun to see you're apparently deeply xenophobic towards Canadians.

[GMDino]

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-national-debt-donald-trump-barack-obama-ee3e613646fe500edf803e57959c776e

Quote:FACT FOCUS: Who’s to blame for the national debt? It’s more complicated than one culprit

ByAngelo FicheraMay 18, 2023



FILE - The Capitol stands in Washington, April 18, 2023. The U.S. is inching closer to the June 1 deadline to raise the debt ceiling or risk defaulting on the nation’s $31 trillion in debt and political leaders have not yet reached a deal to avert such a crisis. (AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite, File)

The U.S. is inching closer to a deadline to raise the debt ceiling or risk defaulting on the nation’s $31 trillion in debt and political leaders have not yet reached a deal to avert such a crisis.


Amid those negotiations, politicians and commentators online have pointed fingers at who they say is to blame for the nation’s exorbitant debt.

One claim circulating widely on social media, prompted by House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, posits that former President Donald Trump contributed more to the debt than any other in the White House occupant in history.

But that isn’t quite right — and experts say the issue is much more nuanced than a political talking point might let on.
Here are the facts.

CLAIM: Trump “ran up more debt than any other President in American history.”

AP’S ASSESSMENT: That’s incorrect. The debt incurred during the Trump era was very high. But in terms of raw dollars, the total debt rose more under former President Barack Obama, with Trump in second place — though Obama held office for two terms, while Trump served one.



There are other ways to slice and dice the numbers, experts say. But more importantly, the debt has been ballooning for years and it’s more complicated than blaming any one leader or party. Trump, for example, was faced with the COVID-19 pandemic, prompting bipartisan support for a massive federal response.

Jeffries offered a more simplistic view when casting blame on the 45th president in a tweet, which was copied in a popular Instagram post shared by Occupy Democrats.

“Trump ran up more debt than any other President in American history,” the post reads. “He wants Republicans to force a dangerous default if they don’t get their way. We cannot let right-wing extremists hold our economy hostage."


Jeffries’ office didn’t provide a response to an inquiry asking how the measure was calculated.

But in terms of all presidents, the Trump years did not record the most debt added — although they did add a lot.

Looking at historical federal debt data by fiscal year, the total gross U.S. debt was about $19.5 trillion at the end of fiscal year 2016, which ended several months before Trump took office, said G. William Hoagland, senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center. That rose to about $26.9 trillion at the end of fiscal year 2020, or a $7.4 trillion increase, just before Trump left office.

The debt added under Obama’s two terms, however, amounted to about $9.5 trillion.

There are some caveats: Those figures are not adjusted for inflation. A federal fiscal year begins in October, so there is some overlap when administrations change. And the total debt includes debt held by the public, which accounts for most of the debt, but also debt owed by one part of the government to another.

There are also different ways to analyze the data.


Evaluating only full one-term presidencies, for example, the rise under Trump may well be on paper the largest increase. But the increase under former President George H. W. Bush — about $1.4 trillion — represented a larger percentage increase than under Trump, Hoagland noted.

And some economists prefer to view the national debt as a percentage of the U.S. gross domestic product, or GDP, because it indicates the ability of the country to handle its debt.

“Compare it to a household,” explained Eugene Steuerle, co-founder of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. “The higher the household’s wages, the more it can pay off its debt.”

Looking at it that way, the gross debt as a percentage of GDP reached an all-time high of nearly 128% at the end of Trump’s tenure, according to the historical federal data. That said, it’s represented more than 100% of GDP since 2013; that burden in relation to the size of the economy was previously unseen since World War II.

But the debt accumulated under specific presidents isn’t just a result of their own policies — it reflects decisions made by their predecessors as well as by members of Congress.

“The point is that fiscal policy reflects joint action by Congress and the president,” said David Primo, a University of Rochester professor of political science and business administration. Statements like Jeffries’ imply presidents have sole control over fiscal policy, he noted.

Similarly, Hoagland said: “All presidents inherit spending from previous administrations and in turn they create spending for the future president.

The cost of programs like Social Security and Medicare continue to drive up the debt, as do factors beyond a president’s control, like COVID-19 or the recession inherited by Obama.

“As a budget expert, what pains me is that partisan bickering about who is to blame for the debt obscures an important truth: both parties have abdicated their budgetary responsibilities,” Primo said, noting that about two-thirds of the debt has been incurred since 2001.
___
This is part of AP’s effort to address widely shared misinformation, including work with outside companies and organizations to add factual context to misleading content that is circulating online. Learn more about fact-checking at AP.

[GMDino]

https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump

Quote:
ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published.



One of President Donald Trump’s lesser known but profoundly damaging legacies will be the explosive rise in the national debt that occurred on his watch. The financial burden that he’s inflicted on our government will wreak havoc for decades, saddling our kids and grandkids with debt.

The national debt has risen by almost $7.8 trillion during Trump’s time in office. That’s nearly twice as much as what Americans owe on student loans, car loans, credit cards and every other type of debt other than mortgages, combined, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. It amounts to about $23,500 in new federal debt for every person in the country.

The growth in the annual deficit under Trump ranks as the third-biggest increase, relative to the size of the economy, of any U.S. presidential administration, according to a calculation by a leading Washington budget maven, Eugene Steuerle, co-founder of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. And unlike George W. Bush and Abraham Lincoln, who oversaw the larger relative increases in deficits, Trump did not launch two foreign conflicts or have to pay for a civil war.

The National Debt Increased Under Trump Despite His Promise to Reduce It
Daily total national debt from 2009 to present.
Source: U.S. Treasury (Lena V. Groeger/ProPublica)
Economists agree that we needed massive deficit spending during the COVID-19 crisis to ward off an economic cataclysm, but federal finances under Trump had become dire even before the pandemic. That happened even though the economy was booming and unemployment was at historically low levels. By the Trump administration’s own description, the pre-pandemic national debt level was already a “crisis” and a “grave threat.”


The combination of Trump’s 2017 tax cut and the lack of any serious spending restraint helped both the deficit and the debt soar. So when the once-in-a-lifetime viral disaster slammed our country and we threw more than $3 trillion into COVID-19-related stimulus, there was no longer any margin for error.

Our national debt has reached immense levels relative to our economy, nearly as high as it was at the end of World War II. But unlike 75 years ago, the massive financial overhang from Medicare and Social Security will make it dramatically more difficult to dig ourselves out of the debt ditch.

The Debt to GDP Ratio Is the Highest It's Been Since World War II
Federal debt held by the public as a percentage of gross domestic product since 1900.
Source: Congressional Budget Office (Lena V. Groeger/ProPublica)
Falling deeper into the red is the opposite of what Trump, the self-styled “King of Debt,” said would happen if he became president. In a March 31, 2016, interview with Bob Woodward and Robert Costa of The Washington Post, Trump said he could pay down the national debt, then about $19 trillion, “over a period of eight years” by renegotiating trade deals and spurring economic growth.

After he took office, Trump predicted that economic growth created by the 2017 tax cut, combined with the proceeds from the tariffs he imposed on a wide range of goods from numerous countries, would help eliminate the budget deficit and let the U.S. begin to pay down its debt. On July 27, 2018, he told Sean Hannity of Fox News: “We have $21 trillion in debt. When this [the 2017 tax cut] really kicks in, we’ll start paying off that debt like it’s water.”

Nine days later, he tweeted, “Because of Tariffs we will be able to start paying down large amounts of the $21 trillion in debt that has been accumulated, much by the Obama Administration.”

That’s not how it played out. When Trump took office in January 2017, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office was projecting that federal budget deficits would be 2% to 3% of our gross domestic product during Trump’s term. Instead, the deficit reached nearly 4% of gross domestic product in 2018 and 4.6% in 2019.

There were multiple culprits. Trump’s tax cuts, especially the sharp reduction in the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35%, took a big bite out of federal revenue. The CBO estimated in 2018 that the tax cut would increase deficits by about $1.9 trillion over 11 years.


Meanwhile, Trump’s claim that increased revenue from the tariffs would help eliminate (or at least reduce) our national debt hasn’t panned out. In 2018, Trump’s administration began hiking tariffs on aluminum, steel and many other products, launching what became a global trade war with China, the European Union and other countries.

The tariffs did bring in additional revenue. In fiscal 2019, they netted about $71 billion, up about $36 billion from President Barack Obama’s last year in office. But although $36 billion is a lot of money, it’s less than 1/750th of the national debt. That $36 billion could have covered a bit more than three weeks of interest on the national debt — that is, had Trump not unilaterally decided to send a chunk of the tariff revenue to farmers affected by his trade wars. Businesses that struggled as a result of the tariffs also paid fewer taxes, offsetting some of the increased tariff revenue.

By early 2019, the national debt had climbed to $22 trillion. Trump’s budget proposal for 2020 called it a “grave threat to our economic and societal prosperity” and asserted that the U.S. was experiencing a “national debt crisis.” However, that same budget proposal included substantial growth in the national debt.

By the end of 2019, the debt had risen to $23.2 trillion and more federal officials were sounding the alarm. “Not since World War II has the country seen deficits during times of low unemployment that are as large as those that we project — nor, in the past century, has it experienced large deficits for as long as we project,” Phillip Swagel, director of the CBO, said in January 2020.

Weeks later, COVID-19 erupted and made the financial situation far worse. As of Dec. 31, 2020, the national debt had jumped to $27.75 trillion, up 39% from $19.95 trillion when Trump was sworn in. The government ended its 2020 fiscal year with the portion of the national debt owed to investors, the metric favored by the CBO, at around 100% of GDP. The CBO had predicted less than a year earlier that it would take until 2030 to reach that approximate level of debt. Including the trillions owed to various governmental trust funds, the total debt is now about 130% of GDP.

Normally, this is where we’d give you Trump’s version of events. But we couldn’t get anyone to give us Trump’s side. Judd Deere, a White House spokesman, referred us to the Office of Management and Budget, which is a branch of the White House.

OMB didn’t respond to our requests. The Treasury directed us to comments made by OMB director Russell Vought in October, in which he predicted that as the pandemic eases and economic growth rebounds, the “fiscal picture” will improve. The OMB blamed legislators for deficits when Trump submitted his proposed 2021 budget: “Unfortunately, the Congress continues to reject any efforts to restrain spending. Instead, they have greatly contributed to the continued ballooning of Federal debt and deficits, putting the Nation’s fiscal future at risk.”

Still, the deficit growth under Trump has been historic. Steuerle, of the Tax Policy Center, has done a comparison of every American president using a metric called the “primary deficit.” It’s defined as the deficit minus interest costs, because interest is the only budget expense that presidents and Congress can’t control unless they want to do the unthinkable and default on the debt. Steuerle examined the records of 45 presidents to see how the primary deficit had shrunk or grown relative to the size of the economy between the first and final years of each president’s administration.

Trump had the third-biggest primary deficit growth, 5.2% of GDP, behind only George W. Bush (11.7%) and Abraham Lincoln (9.4%). Bush, of course, not only passed a big tax cut, as Trump has, but also launched two wars, which greatly inflated the defense budget. Lincoln had to pay for the Civil War. By contrast, Trump’s wars have been almost entirely of the political variety.

Our national debt is now at its highest level relative to our economy since the end of World War II. After the war ended, the extraordinary military expenses disappeared, a postwar recovery began and the debt began to fall rapidly relative to the size of the economy.

But that’s not going to happen this time. When World War II ended 75 years ago, Social Security was in its infancy and Medicare didn’t exist. Today, many of our biggest and most rapidly growing expenses, especially Social Security and Medicare, are baked into the budget because of our nation’s aging population. These outlays are slated to rise sharply. Steuerle recently calculated that Social Security, health care and interest costs are projected to absorb 122% of the total growth in federal revenues from 2019 to 2030.

What’s more, our investment in the future — things like research and development, education, infrastructure, workforce training and such — is declining as a proportion of the budget. OMB data shows that in 1970, mandatory spending (such as Social Security and Medicare, but not including interest on the debt) and investment each made up around 30% of total federal spending. But as of 2019, the most recent available year, mandatory spending had doubled to around 61% of total federal spending while investment fell by more than half, to around 12.5%.

Mandatory Spending Outstrips Investment in the Future
Mandatory and investment spending as a percentage of total U.S. government spending from 1970 to 2019. Mandatory (also known as nondiscretionary) spending includes programs such as Social Security and Medicare, while investment includes infrastructure, research and development, education and training.
Source: Office of Management and Budget (Lena V. Groeger/ProPublica)
Spending more and more on past promises and shrinking the proportion of spending for the future doesn’t bode well for our kids and grandkids. Had Trump done what he said he’d do and paid off part of the national debt before COVID-19 struck rather than adding significantly to the debt, the situation would be considerably less dire. And had Trump done a better job of coping with COVID-19, the economic and human costs would’ve been greatly reduced.


In addition to forcing us to reduce the proportion of the budget spent on the future to help pay for the past, there’s a second reason that huge and growing budget deficits matter: interest costs.

Bigger debt ultimately means bigger interest costs, even in an era when the Federal Reserve has forced down Treasury rates to ultralow levels. The government’s interest cost (including interest paid to government trust funds) was around $523 billion in the 2020 fiscal year. That outstrips all spending on education, employment training, research and social services, Treasury data shows.

Interest costs are way below where they’d be if the Fed hadn’t forced rates down to try to stimulate the economy and mitigate the impact of the pandemic. One-year Treasury securities cost taxpayers a minuscule 0.10% in interest at year-end, down from 1.59% at the end of 2019. The 10-year Treasury rate was 0.93%, down from 1.92%.

In late December, the Fed reported boosting its Treasury holdings by more than $2 trillion from a year earlier. The increase is primarily in longer-term securities. That has kept the federal government from having to raise trillions of dollars in the capital markets, and therefore has kept longer-term interest rates way below where they would otherwise be.

But unless something changes, even the Fed’s promise to keep interest rates near current levels for several years won’t fend off future problems. Most of the government’s borrowing to fund pandemic relief has been shorter-term borrowing that will have to be refinanced in the coming years. If rates rise, so will the government’s interest expense.

Even with rates where they are, interest on the debt is already going to be the fastest-growing budget category this decade, according to the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, which tracks the issue. Annual net interest costs are projected to double in 10 years and grow so large beyond 2030 that interest will become a driving factor in annual deficit growth, according to Peterson estimates.

Listen to what CBO Director Swagel had to say on the subject in a report to congressional Republicans in December: “Although the current low interest rates indicate that the debt is manageable for now and that the United States is not facing an immediate fiscal crisis, in which interest rates abruptly escalated or other disruptions occurred, the risk and potential budgetary consequences of such a crisis become greater over time.”


Trump was asked about this risk during a virtual discussion with the Economic Club of New York last October. “If we have another stimulus bill out of Congress, are you worried that the entire amount of federal debt will be too large for us to pay off in a sensible way?” asked David Rubenstein, a private equity executive.

Trump answered by falsely claiming that the U.S. was starting to pay off the national debt before the pandemic, and he claimed that future economic growth would let it do so. “I think you’re going to see tremendous growth, David, and the growth is going to get it done,” Trump said.

Two months later, when Congress finally approved $900 billion of economic stimulus that is being financed with debt, Trump challenged Congress to spend — and borrow — even more. Then he went golfing.

Doris Burke contributed reporting.

[*Nately120*]

Trump said we should default and stated that “it could be really bad, it could be maybe nothing, maybe it’s a bad week, or a bad day, who knows?”

Lordy, it's quite interesting that there is a decent chance we crawl back to this guy in hopes that he's going to "fix things" after he says something like this. Well, he has an R next to his name, for now at least, so he's gotta be right.

[GMDino]

(05-31-2023, 11:16 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump said we should default and stated that “it could be really bad, it could be maybe nothing, maybe it’s a bad week, or a bad day, who knows?”

Lordy, it's quite interesting that there is a decent chance we crawl back to this guy in hopes that he's going to "fix things" after he says something like this.  Well, he has an R next to his name, for now at least, so he's gotta be right.

Anyone not in the Trump cult knows he isn't smart.  He just talks and figures there is enough words to satisfy everyone and then makes it up again the next time.

He lies constantly so he doesn't even have to remember the last one...lol.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Anyone not in the Biden cult knows he's suffering from dementia and exhibits signs of significant cognitive decline. Oh my, a sword that cuts both ways. Joe lies constantly as well, but he can't remember anything so the lies have a lot of company.

[*Nately120*]

(05-31-2023, 12:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: Anyone not in the Trump cult knows he isn't smart.  He just talks and figures there is enough words to satisfy everyone and then makes it up again the next time.

He lies constantly so he doesn't even have to remember the last one...lol.

He's not even being his usual needlessly confident and absolute self on this one.  He's just like "We should default...I don't know what would happen, but we should do it."  I would imagine people who trust Trump with the economy after saying something like this wouldn't go to a dentist who says "I'm just going to pull out these teeth here...I think that might help things, or not...I don't know really.  I'm not a career dentists, so dentists are terrified of me."

(05-31-2023, 12:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Anyone not in the Biden cult knows he's suffering from dementia and exhibits signs of significant cognitive decline.  Oh my, a sword that cuts both ways.  Joe lies constantly as well, but he can't remember anything so the lies have a lot of company.

Biden is razor sharp and a genius.  Trump is going to make us all rich.  My god, the 2024 election is just a win-win.  I'm in both cults now.

[GMDino]

(05-31-2023, 12:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He's not even being his usual needlessly confident and absolute self on this one.  He's just like "We should default...I don't know what would happen, but we should do it."  I would imagine people who trust Trump with the economy after saying something like this wouldn't go to a dentist who says "I'm just going to pull out these teeth here...I think that might help things, or not...I don't know really.  I'm not a career dentists, so dentists are terrified of me."



Biden is razor sharp and a genius.  Trump is going to make us all rich.  My god, the 2024 election is just a win-win.  I'm in both cults now.

Like I heard on the radio this morning:  Trump is a giant hypocrite about the debt ceiling and he just doesn't care or try to hide it.  He know his base only believes him.

Biden may not be that good, I know a few people that age who are, but he's certainly not the drooling, hiding man the right would like to present him as.  

I mean he has had his infrastructure bill passed, dealt with the gop over the debt ceiling in such a way that the rank and file are crying bitterly over it, and to start it all off he handled Trump.

Biden wasn't my first choice in 2020 or 2024 but I'm certainly not diagnosing him either.

[*pally*]

(05-31-2023, 12:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Anyone not in the Biden cult knows he's suffering from dementia and exhibits signs of significant cognitive decline.  Oh my, a sword that cuts both ways.  Joe lies constantly as well, but he can't remember anything so the lies have a lot of company.

There is a Biden cult?  Since when? I don't know of anyone that is blindly following him making up implausible excuses for his failures, anointing him a God, and generally think he can do no wrong, or oh year...wear costumes of loyalty.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-31-2023, 05:33 PM)pally Wrote: There is a Biden cult?  Since when?

I don't know, around the same time the "Trump cult" started?

Quote:I don't know of anyone that is blindly following him making up implausible excuses for his failures, anointing him a God, and generally think he can do no wrong, or oh year...wear costumes of loyalty.

Oh, sweet summer child, you really don't see it, do you?  The only thing you got right is Biden doesn't have a hat.  He hates hats, because they prevent him from sniffing kid's hair.   

[BigPapaKain]

(05-31-2023, 05:33 PM)pally Wrote: There is a Biden cult?  Since when? I don't know of anyone that is blindly following him making up implausible excuses for his failures, anointing him a God, and generally think he can do no wrong, or oh year...wear costumes of loyalty.

The P in GoP stands for projection.

Feel free to ignore their conspiracies.

[*Nately120*]

(05-31-2023, 05:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't know, around the same time the "Trump cult" started?

If my neighbor can keep a TRUMP 2020 sign up 939 days and counting after the election, I'm at least allowed to entertain the idea that he has a rather unorthodox view of this one political figure.  I didn't live here a decade ago, it's possible he had his ROMNEY 2012 sign up for years, too for all I know.

My mom still has her CARTER/MONDALE 1980 sign up.  She says he actually won.

[Dill]

(05-31-2023, 05:33 PM)pally Wrote: There is a Biden cult?  Since when? I don't know of anyone that is blindly following him making up implausible excuses for his failures, anointing him a God, and generally think he can do no wrong, or oh year...wear costumes of loyalty.

Biden was generally a stopgap, someone we hoped would beat Trump.

Some may want to overlook or defend his flaws out of fear of another four years of Trump,
but if he loses the next election NO ONE will mass before the Capitol at his request
and break in to interrupt certification believing he ordered them to do so.

If he loses, Dem Congress persons won't rally to avenge him.

No Biden voter would die for him. https://dailycaller.com/2020/10/04/cspan-donald-trump-walter-reed-supporter-i-would-die-for-him/

No Congress person will be drummed out of Congress for criticizing Biden.

The base will not abandon primary challengers who criticize him. 

If Biden offers cultic ploys like "I am your retribution!" Dem voters will dump him.

If he shoots someone on 5th Avenue, he'll lose ALL his voters.

Same if he's found liable for sexual assault or guilty of sedition, or obstructing the return of classified documents.

So no, no Biden cult. Both sides don't do it.