Maine Mass Shooting

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-26-2023, 12:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Let the pro gun control side scream, it's the price of the 1A for you to have to hear it.

Let's face the crappy facts, Americans are addicted to being pissed off, there is a lot of power and money to be gained from pissing us off, and a lot of people are really into the idea of shooting people for all sorts of reasons. 

I never said they couldn't scream, but it's interesting that you'd cite a right as it is being used to attempt to curtail another.

(10-26-2023, 12:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well waiting for the cycle of "it's too soon to talk about it, there's nothing we can do about it, why are you talking about it now, another shooting" was getting as boring as this conversation will be by page two. 

Who said you can't talk about it?  I was commenting on the appropriateness of your low effort snark.  

(10-26-2023, 12:23 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You joke, but since they can't govern within reason, then yes. Shall not be infringed.

That line is there for this very reason.  For all their faults the Framers know how radical the right to own arms for the general populace was, and remains.  It is virtually unheard of throughout history and in fact the opposite, the severe curtailing of the ownership of arms, is more the norm than the exception.  An armed populace cannot be oppressed, hence it is a thing to be avoided.

[GMDino]

(10-26-2023, 12:23 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You joke, but since they can't govern within reason, then yes. Shall not be infringed.

Kinda joking.  Every law that has been overturned as hinged on that.  So saying we should have "commonsense laws" kinda goes out the window.

And I support the right to bear arms.  I just also feel that's probably why we have so many shootings and deaths...we have based entire culture abut one sentence.

[GMDino]

(10-26-2023, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I have to admit that I'm curious as to why some mass shootings even get their own threads here.  Did we ever have a "MASS SHOOTING MEGATHREAD" or is that too cynical to even imagine?

I believe we had thread where we just added the next one as they were happening every week.  Then some milksop started complaining about "what definition are we using for MASS shooting?!?!" and it deteriorated into a debate about how the Founding Father's words can never be questioned as they were geniuses...unless it's another right that can be interpreted differently now.

Can't imagine that will happen this time. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-26-2023, 12:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Kinda joking.  Every law that has been overturned as hinged on that.  So saying we should have "commonsense laws" kinda goes out the window.

And I support the right to bear arms.  I just also feel that's probably why we have so many shootings and deaths...we have based entire culture abut one sentence.

The culture is not based on it, but it is part of the culture.  As stated, it is virtually unheard of in human history.  The 2A is no more, or less, a part of our culture than the First, also a right virtually unheard of, and one that certainly does not exist in the rest of the West.

[*Nately120*]

(10-26-2023, 12:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I never said they couldn't scream, but it's interesting that you'd cite a right as it is being used to attempt to curtail another.

That's all it is, it's an attempt.  The only way this country loses the 2A is if we use our 2A to install a dictator who we decide knows better than the constitution. 

I brought it up as a mostly facetious way to complain that we had hear it because people have rights, damn it.  

[HarleyDog]

(10-26-2023, 12:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Kinda joking.  Every law that has been overturned as hinged on that.  So saying we should have "commonsense laws" kinda goes out the window.

And I support the right to bear arms.  I just also feel that's probably why we have so many shootings and deaths...we have based entire culture abut one sentence.

I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded. But, If it's not firearms, it will be homemade explosives or even biological or chemical means. Driving cars into crowds, arson, etc. Crazy people with a grudge or vendetta will find a way to fulfill their desires. I don't trust this country enough to give up my right to own a firearm. I have to protect myself from the crazy people. Both those on the street and those in government. WTS, I do not own a firearm. But there may be a day I find it necessary to purchase one.

[*Nately120*]

(10-26-2023, 12:50 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded. But, If it's not firearms, it will be homemade explosives or even biological or chemical means. Driving cars into crowds, arson, etc. Crazy people with a grudge or vendetta will find a way to fulfill their desires. I don't trust this country enough to give up my right to own a firearm. I have to protect myself from the crazy people. Both those on the street and those in government. WTS, I do not own a firearm. But there may be a day I find it necessary to purchase one.

I'm biased on this stuff because as I've said the only times in my life where I have been in a justified "stand your ground" situation, I was under the age of 18 or also 21 depending on laws of legalized carry.  I won't detail things by devil's advocating my way into asking why the right and ability to defend yourself from crazy people is only available to adults, but I've asked it before.

Maybe I'm oddly optimistic, but I've often felt my most vulnerable days were long behind me.

[CKwi88]

(10-26-2023, 12:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's all it is, it's an attempt.  The only way this country loses the 2A is if we use our 2A to install a dictator who we decide knows better than the constitution. 

I brought it up as a mostly facetious way to complain that we had hear it because people have rights, damn it.  

Not entirely true. The current interpretation of the 2nd amendment is largely a result of a 5-4 Supreme Court decision. In theory, there could be a new interpretation closer to the one that was in place for the first 200+ years of our nation. 

That said, objectively, Pandora's box has been opened, and the bell can't be unrung. Gun Culture and all its pros and cons are now as much a part of American culture as western movies and McDonald's. 

[*pally*]

(10-26-2023, 12:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Kinda joking.  Every law that has been overturned as hinged on that.  So saying we should have "commonsense laws" kinda goes out the window.

And I support the right to bear arms.  I just also feel that's probably why we have so many shootings and deaths...we have based entire culture abut one sentence.

maybe we should start paying more attention to the phrase "a well-regulated militia"

[GMDino]

Finally a fresh idea!  

Nikki Haley on Maine mass shooting: We need to defund sanctuary cities. @Acyn
pic.twitter.com/HSKrtQlY3R

— The Intellectualist (@highbrow_nobrow) October 26, 2023

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-26-2023, 01:28 PM)pally Wrote: maybe we should start paying more attention to the phrase "a well-regulated militia"

Maybe we should stop regurgitating this tired, and easily disproven "point" once and for all?  The militia was any man able to fight.  As we live in a more egalitarian age it is now any adult able to fight.  The militia, as the Framers intended, is the people.  This has been affirmed in SCOTUS precedent, something we know you place a lot of stock in.

[GMDino]

Thoughts and (Christian) prayers anyone?

Speaker Mike Johnson dismisses gun control: "The problem is the human heart. It's not guns ... this is not the time to talk about legislation." pic.twitter.com/b1ti28zETl

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 27, 2023

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 08:59 AM)GMDino Wrote: Thoughts and (Christian) prayers anyone?

Speaker Mike Johnson dismisses gun control: "The problem is the human heart. It's not guns ... this is not the time to talk about legislation." pic.twitter.com/b1ti28zETl

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 27, 2023

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ok Fair point, so now the GOP needs to admit our border crisis and abortion and foreign policy and all lives people choose to lead need  to be fixed in the heart and minds of the people and not via draconian legislation. 

[GMDino]

(10-27-2023, 09:10 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok Fair point, so now the GOP needs to admit our border crisis and abortion and foreign policy and all lives people choose to lead need  to be fixed in the heart and minds of the people and not via draconian legislation. 

You just can't legislate...well, anything I guess.

All seriousness aside there really is no answer to end these shooting specifically.

There will always be people with mental health issues, there will always be a free flow of easy to obtain guns in this country.

And since no one wants to do anything to fix the holes where the two meet we just have to live with it I guess.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 09:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: You just can't legislate...well, anything I guess.

All seriousness aside there really is no answer to end these shooting specifically.

There will always be people with mental health issues, there will always be a free flow of easy to obtain guns in this country.

And since no one wants to do anything to fix the holes where the two meet we just have to live with it I guess.

It's just Interesting how when it specifically comes to Americans shooting each other conservatives suddenly echo the "peace and love and understanding" mantra they paint as a bunch of wimpy idealized ineffective BS when liberals apply it to anything or anyone else. 

Play an acoustic guitar behind a conservative talking about our gun problem and you practically have a Peter, Paul and Mary song. 

[GMDino]

(10-27-2023, 09:26 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It's just Interesting how when it specifically comes to Americans shooting each other conservatives suddenly echo the "peace and love and understanding" mantra they paint as a bunch of wimpy idealized ineffective BS when liberals apply it to anything or anyone else. 

Play an acoustic guitar behind a conservative talking about our gun problem and you practically have a Peter, Paul and Mary song. 

And I wonder why (and how) the republicans fight things like universal background checks that 75% or more of the public supports.

This isn't a 51%-49% thing like abortion rights.

It's barely controversial except the extreme right makes it a divisive issue.

[Goalpost]

So this guy apparently left a suicide note. He might be already dead somewhere.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-27-2023, 09:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: And I wonder why (and how) the republicans fight things like universal background checks that 75% or more of the public supports.

This isn't a 51%-49% thing like abortion rights.

It's barely controversial except the extreme right makes it a divisive issue.

Universal background checks would require a national gun registry.  A national gun registry is illegal.  Even if it wasn't the vast majority of gun owners would refuse to comply with it as said registry would be used to confiscate firearms the next time the Dems have a majority in Congress and own the presidency.  You are correct though, there would be some moves that could help, problem is no one trusts the Dems on this issue, at all.  Their ultimate goal is confiscation.  Not only that, but CA already leaked firearm owners and their addresses "accidentally". 

https://www.thetrace.org/newsletter/california-gun-permit-leak-bonta/

Also, I promise you if a question about universal background checks included the fact that a national registry was needed to implement it the support for it would be significantly lower.

[GMDino]

Can't trust the Democrats, can't trust the courts, can't trust anyone.


I think I'm starting to understand why so many on the right become the "bad guy with a gun".  

"Law abiding" right up until they start shooting people.

All seriousness aside if we applied the same logic to almost any issue we'd just have no laws.  I can't trust the gop to legislate education or abortion.  I can't trust the courts if they are leaning right wing to interpret the laws fairly.  For that matter how often does an innocent person lose everything because of the police/courts?  Often enough to question everything I think.

I'm with this now!  Throw out all the laws!  Every person for themselves!

Good luck folks!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-27-2023, 12:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Can't trust the Democrats,

Can't trust the GOP either, but they're certainly better on this issue than the Dems.

Quote:can't trust the courts, can't trust anyone.

Who said anything about not trusting the courts?  You're the one who was criticizing a judge for authorizing a search warrant.  Are you referring to yourself here?

Quote:I think I'm starting to understand why so many on the right become the "bad guy with a gun".  

"Law abiding" right up until they start shooting people.

Well, considering the vast majority of homicides are committed by people with a criminal record I'd say we'll have to file this point under hyperbole.

Quote:All seriousness aside if we applied the same logic to almost any issue we'd just have no laws.  I can't trust the gop to legislate education or abortion.  I can't trust the courts if they are leaning right wing to interpret the laws fairly.  For that matter how often does an innocent person lose everything because of the police/courts?  Often enough to question everything I think.

There's this pesky thing called the Constitution that prevents such laws in regard to firearms.  This is all very interesting from someone who lambasted the SCOTUS for several recent rulings.  Selective outrage?

Quote:I'm with this now!  Throw out all the laws!  Every person for themselves!

Good luck folks!

Appeals to emotion are a poor foundation for any argument.