Maine Mass Shooting

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 11:51 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Universal background checks would require a national gun registry.  A national gun registry is illegal.  Even if it wasn't the vast majority of gun owners would refuse to comply with it as said registry would be used to confiscate firearms the next time the Dems have a majority in Congress and own the presidency.  You are correct though, there would be some moves that could help, problem is no one trusts the Dems on this issue, at all.  Their ultimate goal is confiscation.  Not only that, but CA already leaked firearm owners and their addresses "accidentally". 

https://www.thetrace.org/newsletter/california-gun-permit-leak-bonta/

Also, I promise you if a question about universal background checks included the fact that a national registry was needed to implement it the support for it would be significantly lower.

Firearm confiscation in the USA is completely illogical, no matter who wants it to happen.  Aren't there nearly 400 million firearms in the USA? I'm just going by google here so I could be wrong, but the point is that even if the government can successfully and without incident confiscate 1 gun per second 24 hours a day the process would take almost 13 years.

I know politicians are full of shit and get elected on things they have a 0% chance of being able to follow up on, but confiscating guns is a process akin to an absolute fairy tale that people need to be willingly delusional to believe whether that belief inspires them to vote left or right.


To me our whole gun violence thing seems more akin to my father and his generation dealing with Vietnam, or my grandfather and his generation dealing with WWII.  This time everyone is drafted to be at risk of dying, and it's a big ol' shit sandwich that everyone has to take a bite out of, some more than others I guess.  Boomers made songs and movies about being sent to war and/or knowing people who didn't come back or came back damaged so maybe now we are seeing the effects upon younger generations of being in a similar "die for freedom, hope it's not your number getting called" situation.  It's pretty interesting really.

And much like 50+ years ago when folk artists strummed their guitars and said "No more war" people now are going to pointlessly ask for this stuff to stop.  It doesn't stop, it's just different.  Closer to home I guess.  I've said it before but we need to put the victims of gun violence like this on the same pedestal financially and socially as people who died defending this country.  Make it like a war and just cut out the right and wrong and say "These people died for our freedom."

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-27-2023, 12:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Firearm confiscation in the USA is completely illogical, no matter who wants it to happen.  Aren't there nearly 400 million firearms in the USA? I'm just going by google here so I could be wrong, but the point is that even if the government can successfully and without incident confiscate 1 gun per second 24 hours a day the process would take almost 13 years.

It being illogical is absolutely no barrier to a politician.  You are correct, it would be a daunting task, which is why, if allowed to happen, it would happen in incremental steps.

Quote:I know politicians are full of shit and get elected on things they have a 0% chance of being able to follow up on, but confiscating guns is a process akin to an absolute fairy tale that people need to be willingly delusional to believe whether that belief inspires them to vote left or right.

Except it literally happens in CA, it's on the books.  If the owner of a registered "assault rifle" dies then the options are to transfer it out of state or surrender it to the state.  The option to transfer it out of state does no obscure or mitigate the fact that the only other option is confiscation.

Quote:To me our whole gun violence thing seems more akin to my father and his generation dealing with Vietnam, or my grandfather and his generation dealing with WWII.  This time everyone is drafted to be at risk of dying, and it's a big ol' shit sandwich that everyone has to take a bite out of, some more than others I guess.  Boomers made songs and movies about being sent to war and/or knowing people who didn't come back or came back damaged so maybe now we are seeing the effects upon younger generations of being in a similar "die for freedom, hope it's not your number getting called" situation.  It's pretty interesting really.

And much like 50+ years ago when folk artists strummed their guitars and said "No more war" people now are going to pointlessly ask for this stuff to stop.  It doesn't stop, it's just different.  Closer to home I guess.  I've said it before but we need to put the victims of gun violence like this on the same pedestal financially and socially as people who died defending this country.  Make it like a war and just cut out the right and wrong and say "These people died for our freedom."

To me it's a media that hypes it up and politicians who attempt to use it as political capital.  Even with the recent uptick in violent crime caused by horrendous Democrat policies and DA's the murder rate is far lower now than it was in the 60's, 70's and eighties.  Yet we are inundated with these incidents when they occur.  It's made to seem that we're becoming increasingly more violent when the facts show otherwise.  All the while the number of firearms and the number of firearm owners has increased dramatically.  Again, the facts just don't mesh with the Dem narrative on this subject.  Especially when it's their own "progressive" prosecutors enabling actual criminals.  I could provide you with literally thousands of cases of convicted felons caught carrying a concealed firearm only to be charged with a misdemeanor and given a slap on the wrist.

If you really are serious about gun related violence, then start actually, and aggressively, enforcing the gun laws on the damned books.  Magazines holding more than ten rounds are banned in CA, yet I could not tell you the last time I saw the DA actually file charges for an illegal magazine carried in a criminals gun.  It's almost like they don't actually care.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 02:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I could provide you with literally thousands of cases of convicted felons caught carrying a concealed firearm only to be charged with a misdemeanor and given a slap on the wrist.

If you really are serious about gun related violence, then start actually, and aggressively, enforcing the gun laws on the damned books.  Magazines holding more than ten rounds are banned in CA, yet I could not tell you the last time I saw the DA actually file charges for an illegal magazine carried in a criminals gun.  It's almost like they don't actually care.

I don't even see why a convicted felon shouldn't be allowed to own firearms in this country.  A lax attitude towards enforcing the gun laws on the books is almost cynically bi partisan.

As I've said, the main thing to do here is change the attitude about being shot and killed by your fellow American.  Maybe someday people will say "Stand up for the Anthem, men women and children have been shot and killed during their daily routine for that flag."

[GMDino]

(10-27-2023, 02:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't even see why a convicted felon shouldn't be allowed to own firearms in this country.  A lax attitude towards enforcing the gun laws on the books is almost cynically bi partisan.

As I've said, the main thing to do here is change the attitude about being shot and killed by your fellow American.  Maybe someday people will say "Stand up for the Anthem, men women and children have been shot and killed during their daily routine for that flag."

Well, as one of the republicans said this week: Be careful.

So I'm proposing we just arm everyone.  Free AR-15 and handguns.  One per person of legal age.  

Throw out the laws and good luck everyone!  Be careful out there!

[BigPapaKain]

(10-27-2023, 03:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well, as one of the republicans said this week: Be careful.

So I'm proposing we just arm everyone.  Free AR-15 and handguns.  One per person of legal age.  

Throw out the laws and good luck everyone!  Be careful out there!

I mean I've been saying that for years.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 03:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well, as one of the republicans said this week: Be careful.

So I'm proposing we just arm everyone.  Free AR-15 and handguns.  One per person of legal age.  

Throw out the laws and good luck everyone!  Be careful out there!

There is a different between saying it shouldn't be illegal for people to possess an inanimate object (other than CP or something like that which in itself is evidence of and incentivizes victimization), and saying the government should supply citizens with guns.

And what is the legal age for a gun?  People under 18 need to defend themselves from criminals, too.

[GMDino]

(10-27-2023, 03:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There is a different between saying it shouldn't be illegal for people to possess an inanimate object (other than CP or something like that which in itself is evidence of and incentivizes victimization), and saying the government should supply citizens with guns.

And what is the legal age for a gun?  People under 18 need to defend themselves from criminals, too.

But its the only way to be safe.  "Good guy with a gun" and all that.

Cheaper than prison, courts, etc. 

[Housh]

I hate this shit

I just imagine my wife and kid going out to the salon or something and getting a call that they’ve been brutally shot down by some lame ass ***** made guy


I can’t even put into words how sick i am for those families. It’s not fair.


At a certain point conceal carry just needs to be federally allowed for everyone, anywhere.


But that’s just my opinion

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 03:57 PM)GMDino Wrote: But its the only way to be safe.  "Good guy with a gun" and all that.

Cheaper than prison, courts, etc. 

It's all just people trying to deal with the unpleasant emotion of the headlines.  Telling yourself that if you were in this situation you'd be able to handle the gunman or you'd want someone to swoop in and rescue you isn't impossible, but it's more of a feel-good sort of thing a lot of people tell themselves to deal with the unpleasant reality they don't want to face.

Own guns because you can own guns and you want to own guns.  Keep it simple, no need to delve into the fantasy realm about stuff.

[CKwi88]

(10-27-2023, 04:05 PM)Housh Wrote: I hate this shit

I just imagine my wife and kid going out to the salon or something and getting a call that they’ve been brutally shot down by some lame ass ***** made guy


I can’t even put into words how sick i am for those families. It’s not fair.


At a certain point conceal carry just needs to be federally allowed for everyone, anywhere.


But that’s just my opinion

Really? The "more guns" solution?

Not so sure about that. 

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 04:18 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Really? The "more guns" solution?

Not so sure about that. 

I personally just find society and people's mindsets the most interesting aspect of all of this.  I assume this is just down to people refusing (or it being way too unpleasant) to actually look at a situation and analyze it fairly. But the same political spectrum that will tell me it is unfair that they should be expected to work to pay for some worthless person on welfare will tacitly accept that they themselves or their wife or even children might have to die so a worthless weirdo who lives in his mom's basement and is addicted to stepsister porn is free to own a thousand machine guns.

Right wrong or otherwise, it intrigues. From the cynical marketing side of it if you want people to accept gun control frame it as it being unfair that people like YOU have to sacrifice so people like THEM can reap the benefits.  That's what gets people pissed off and demanding action.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-27-2023, 04:18 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Really? The "more guns" solution?

Not so sure about that. 

His point being maybe someone could have shot back.  I understand there are some people who in a temper tantrum would shoot someone if they had a gun on them, but I guess you try to figure out which way costs less lives.  But in this case, these establishments may have forbidden firearms so I don't know.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 04:54 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I understand there are some people who in a temper tantrum would shoot someone if they had a gun on them, but I guess you try to figure out which way costs less lives.

That's a whole different debate on the idea of calculating the risk vs rewards of having certain freedoms.  That'd be an interesting can of worms to open.

[CKwi88]

(10-27-2023, 04:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I personally just find society and people's mindsets the most interesting aspect of all of this.  I assume this is just down to people refusing (or it being way too unpleasant) to actually look at a situation and analyze it fairly. But the same political spectrum that will tell me it is unfair that they should be expected to work to pay for some worthless person on welfare will tacitly accept that they themselves or their wife or even children might have to die so a worthless weirdo who lives in his mom's basement and is addicted to stepsister porn is free to own a thousand machine guns.

Right wrong or otherwise, it intrigues. From the cynical marketing side of it if you want people to accept gun control frame it as it being unfair that people like YOU have to sacrifice so people like THEM can reap the benefits.  That's what gets people pissed off and demanding action.

It's a very emotionally charged topic no doubt, much like anything that falls into the P&R realm. And it's also a topic that is incredibly complex. It isn't solely a gun problem. It's a culture problem. It's a problem with our country's glorification and fantasization of violence. It's a mental health problem. It's a broken-family problem. It's a drug problem. There are myriad factors that contribute to it, none of which are easy to solve or remediate. 

And in the middle of it all we have a country that, on the whole, is freaking terrible at recognizing, admitting and correcting our own mistakes. Look no further than the "But the second amendment!" argument. What if they got it wrong in 1791? And even if they got it right in 1791, does the same apply to 2023?  What if the language of our entire constitution is in dire need of an updating/modernization?

But that's all too difficult to collectively consider. So here we are again, until the next one. Hope nobody's number comes up.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-27-2023, 03:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And what is the legal age for a gun?  People under 18 need to defend themselves from criminals, too.

In Ohio it's 18 to purchase with no age barrier to carry a rifle or shotgun. 21 to purchase a handgun, 18 to carry a handgun. Also open carry is allowed, and there's permit-less concealed carry.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 05:20 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In Ohio it's 18 to purchase with no age barrier to carry a rifle or shotgun. 21 to purchase a handgun, 18 to carry a handgun. Also open carry is allowed, and there's permit-less concealed carry.

As I said I'm biased.  The only times in my life I've ever had George Zimmerman-levels of "I had to shoot him" on my side, I was under 18. 

[GMDino]

I figured it was clear that I was speaking tongue in cheek about arming everyone.

Clearly that is not the answer.

I do agree we have a culture problem.









Maybe.

[StoneTheCrow]

Good trigger discipline across the board.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-27-2023, 06:14 PM)GMDino Wrote: I figured it was clear that I was speaking tongue in cheek about arming everyone.

Clearly that is not the answer.

I do agree we have a culture problem.

Maybe.

How many people in those pictures have committed murder with a firearm?

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2023, 06:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: How many people in those pictures have committed murder with a firearm?

Probably none, but people are free to treat guns like attention magnets just as people are free to get a bitter laugh out of the many times people end up looking down the barrel of their own guns after buying them to protect them from some sort of generic "bad guy."  One of those true crime things I saw recently was pretty silly in the sense that the 20 something loser son in a family was so upset about his parents giving him a "get out and get a job" ultimatum that he shot all of them and then shot himself in the foot and called the police.

Always a hoot.  No shit, this black guy just shows up and grabs our rifle shoots everyone in my family 5 times in the head and then shoots me in the foot and is like "My work here is done" and then he took nothing and disappeared and also I unplugged the security camera before it happened for some reason.

I also like the most amusing signaling divergence when you have right-wing politicians make sure their videos from home are in front of a shelf of guns and the left-wingers are in front of a shelf of books.  Actually, I guess Boebert has a shelf where there are books with a gun lying across the top of them.

If I were a politician I'd have a campaign ad where I open the front door of my house and a wave of firearms spills out onto my porch like a cartoon and then I'd say "See that?  This is why you need to vote for me."