Lefty fact-checker confirms Biden lied about Charlottesville

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-25-2024, 02:42 PM)Dill Wrote: Do you doubt that the vast majority of Black voters will vote for Biden over Trump? 

Of course they will.  If they don't vote for Biden then they aren't Black, hence Biden will win 100% of the "Black" vote.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-25-2024, 02:42 PM)Dill Wrote: Do you doubt that the vast majority of Black voters will vote for Biden over Trump? And there is no reason to suppose they may not be aware "Joe's own words," which saturated social media in 2020, and which don't make him a very convincing racist anyway.  (One wonders how many Black voters agree with the "chains" remark.) It's not like Biden was sued for discriminatory housing or regularly deploys disparaging stereotypes of non-white ethnic groups. 

The claim that Black voters generally have a positive view of Biden and don't see him as a racist has a much firmer foundation than explaining away hate group support for Trump just folks voting their pocket book. That's a denial of contrary evidence when followed by a duck and run.


A thread about Biden's reference to Charlottesville is always also going to be a thread about Trump behavior and character, since that's what the "lie" is about. You've not been "off topic" raising issues about other riots and political groups for comparison.

You only call them "diversionary rabbit holes" when they draw counter arguments you cannot refute.
You offer one-liners, then you're done and on the run. 

[hollodero]

(06-25-2024, 02:39 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Trump didn't do these things. These are asinine reports that came from the left-wing media machine to try and convince the American public he did. When he is tried and convicted of these acts, then we will talk.

There was a fake elector scheme running, Trump did try to pressure a state secretary to find him the exact number of votes to overthrow the election, Trump himself presented conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory trying to convince his supporters that he actually won in a landslide were it not for wide-spread voter fraud, he treid to bring Pence to circumvent his constitutional duty and not certify the election. These are not asinine reports, these things actually happened. Whether he made himself legally liable by doing them is up to be decided. But he did do them and so in a moral sense is gulity as charged.

[Dill]

(06-25-2024, 02:39 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: .Guess we are measuring these candidates differently. For starters, Biden did not conspire to overthrow a valid election,
drawing hundreds of others into the crime. What sort of voter thinks that's no disqualification for commander in chief?

Trump didn't do these things. These are asinine reports that came from the left-wing media machine to try and convince the American public he did. When he is tried and convicted of these acts, then we will talk. I mean, the left is despitately searching for anything to charge him with anyway. You think this would be a cakewalk if proven.

If you are waiting for Trump to be tried and convicted--that will not happen if he wins election.

And it won't happen before he wins because his minions in the justice system have stalled three prosecutions--two related to 1/6.

If he does win, it will be because he has convinced millions that the election was stolen from him,
and then afterwards, that Biden's DOJ was "weaponized" to come after him. 

But it's not the "left wing media machine" which established the election was not stolen. It was Trump's own AG, election officials in Arizona, Georgia and Michigan, and our very own court system which shut down 61 fake suits. And thanks to the Dominion suit, we know that Murdoch, Hannity, Ingraham and Carlson did not think it was stolen either, even as they were convincing Trump supporters it was.

Worse, affirmation that the election was stolen is now the "religious test" for any who want to part of Trump's campaign and to serve under him if he wins. 
Though debunked, the lie is not over. It still lives on inside the Right Wing Media Bubble which initially spread it.

Nor was it the "left wing media machine" which indicted Trump and dozens of seditious co-conspirators.  Prosecutors have the testimony of Trump's own DOJ and White House staff, the forged lists of electors, and television video of Trump sending a mob to the Capitol to pressure Pence to illegally refuse certification of the election. 

That's likely the only evidence voters have to go by before the election. And that's a problem if you, and millions of others, 
think a lie is the truth because Trump said it, and the truth is a lie because "leftist media" said it. 
Did Trump lie or not? That's really the only conversation voters should be having right now.

[Dill]

(06-25-2024, 02:39 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: We can beat a dead horse over the unemployment issue. Counting part-time jobs and immigrant jobs is not putting Americans to work with good full-time jobs. The unemployment rate can and is adjusted to fit the narrative. Also, using strategic oil reserves to bring down oil prices is dumb. Our country's reserves are the lowest they've been in 40yrs. 

Breaking foreign policy? How, by recognizing Jerulalem as the capital of Isriel? By putting tariffs on China? Withdrawing for a ridiculous Iran nuclear agreement? Withdraw from UN Human Right Council? Or was it because he met with leaders of communist countries? 

I'm still not seeing "worst president ever" here. Especially when his opponent incited an attack on the Capitol with a lie he is still using to manipulate millions.

If counting part-time jobs and immigrant jobs is not putting Americans to work with good full-time jobs under Biden, then it wasn't under Trump, either.

And yes, breaking foreign policy--frightening our NATO allies with threats of withdrawal, praising dictators, undermining the Afghan government by treating the Taliban as the real representatives of A-stan, trashing the Iran deal has brought Iran's nuclear program has zero break out time, pulling out of the TPP has allowed China to fill an important economic/power vacuum on the Pacific Rim. So STUPIDLY unnecessary. 

Every president has to meet with "leaders of Communist countries." The issue is whether such meetings are in the national interest, producing an advantage for the US, not for our adversaries. Two Kim summits benefited Kim tremendously not us. (He travelled to 6 countries after that, making a big appearance at the Asian games in Indonesia. Out of the box.)   

Recognizing Jerusalem, moving our embassy there, and endorsing Israel's illegal annexation of the Golan heights--all those signal US disrespect for international law and US unwillingness to take the Palestinian problem seriously. The current Gaza war is one effect of our rewarding Israel for postponing or ignoring Oslo.

How well you think Trump did depends on your knowledge of foreign policy, past and present, and upon foreign policy goals.  Anti-Globalists think it a good thing to break past policies and withdraw from treaties and let dictators invade wherever they want. People who think the Post-WWII liberal international order ought to be preserved think US leadership is critical to preserving this order, and that means, among other things, distinguishing the friends of that order from its enemies.