Maybe Lucie is right?

[Belsnickel]

(03-30-2016, 02:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They still consider such afflictions to be processes that occur in the brain (hence why they still address it) they have simply changed their recommended treatment.

For instance the APA declassified it as a mental disorder in 1973 simply because the term was derogitory. They have went on to suggest that this orientation is "fluid' and can change. As recently as 2012 their ex-president stated it could be "cured". Nothing has changed but acceptance.

Are you referring to homosexuality, GID/GD, or gender nonconformity?

[*bfine32*]

(03-30-2016, 02:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Are you referring to homosexuality, GID/GD, or gender nonconformity?

Same sex attraction. I really haven't delvesd too deep in their stance on the T in LBGT. I actually think they catagorize it differently.

[Belsnickel]

(03-30-2016, 03:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Same sex attraction. I really haven't delvesd too deep in their stance on the T in LBGT. I actually think they catagorize it differently.

Well, neither same sex attraction nor gender nonconformity (the T in LGBT) are in the DSM anymore, to my understanding. Definitely not classified as disorders. GD maintains a place as it is the distress existent in some individuals with gender non-conformity.


As for the statement from Dr. Cummings, we should note that he never used the term "cure" in his op-ed in 2013 (if that is to what you are referring). He did state that he he believes he (or his staff) were successful with "hundreds" of those that came to them seeking a change in orientation while he was with Kaiser from 1959-1979. Though the APA did find that, overwhelmingly, the results of sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE) resulted in harmful effects more often than beneficial.

[*bfine32*]

(03-30-2016, 04:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, neither same sex attraction nor gender nonconformity (the T in LGBT) are in the DSM anymore, to my understanding. Definitely not classified as disorders. GD maintains a place as it is the distress existent in some individuals with gender non-conformity.


As for the statement from Dr. Cummings, we should note that he never used the term "cure" in his op-ed in 2013 (if that is to what you are referring). He did state that he he believes he (or his staff) were successful with "hundreds" of those that came to them seeking a change in orientation while he was with Kaiser from 1959-1979. Though the APA did find that, overwhelmingly, the results of sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE) resulted in harmful effects more often than beneficial.

I'm not sure this refutes anything I have suggested; it pretty much supports the fact that they just decided to reclassify to remove stigma, no discoveries where found as to the cause; simply how we should categorizes them and/or treat the illness.

As to the word cure; it is quite possibly why I wrote it as "cured".

[Belsnickel]

(03-30-2016, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure this refutes anything I have suggested; it pretty much supports the fact that they just decided to reclassify to remove stigma, no discoveries where found as to the cause; simply how we should categorizes them and/or treat the illness.

It wasn't so much a refutation as information on the topic as you said you had not looked much into it. Sexual orientation is seen as fluid to many people, including LGBT activists. As most things with behavior have to do with the brain, it would make sense to stem from there. So for both of those points in your post it is irrelevant. The reason same sex attraction was removed from being a disorder was because it was no longer seen as something that needed to be cured by society and so the APA followed society. So your statements were factually correct.

(03-30-2016, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the word cure; it is quite possibly why I wrote it as "cured".

I'm sorry, I assumed you were using punctuation correctly.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-30-2016, 02:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They still consider such afflictions to be processes that occur in the brain (hence why they still address it) they have simply changed their recommended treatment.

Your attraction to women is a 'process that occurs in the brain.'  Can you be cured of it?

Quote:For instance the APA declassified it as a mental disorder in 1973 simply because the term was derogitory. They have went on to suggest that this orientation is "fluid' and can change. As recently as 2012 their ex-president stated it could be "cured". Nothing has changed but acceptance.

I'm not buying your explanation. Do you have an APA statement explaining the change?  Are you referring to the APA or the other APA?

[Rotobeast]

(03-30-2016, 04:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Your attraction to women is a 'process that occurs in the brain.'  Can you be cured of it?

I think everyone can be "changed", providing prime circumstances.
Life in prison, stranded on a desert island, ect...
It is my opinion that the brain actually changes, given certain conditions.

[Belsnickel]

(03-30-2016, 05:00 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I think everyone can be "changed", providing prime circumstances.
Life in prison, stranded on a desert island, ect...
It is my opinion that the brain actually changes, given certain conditions.

Sexual orientation is, IMHO, absolutely fluid and falls on a continuum. There is not two (or three) sexual orientations, but rather three segments along this continuum into which someone could fall at any given time regarding their level of attraction to different genders and/or sexes. There is also a fourth grouping which often gets overlooked called asexual.

I know people that have dated men and women, but at one time or another could tell you they feel no attraction to one or the other. Honestly, to me, it is more about how our body chemistry reacts to an individual, and that can change depending on circumstances.

[*bfine32*]

(03-30-2016, 04:54 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Your attraction to women is a 'process that occurs in the brain.'  Can you be cured of it?


I'm not buying your explanation. Do you have an APA statement explaining the change?  Are you referring to the APA or the other APA?

I don'see any reason to try as over 97% of the population shares my trait; but, I am pretty sure the attraction could be suppressed or replaced with something I valued more. Kinda like a Nun does.

Can a schzophrinic be cured?

Are you talking about the change of category in 1973ish? I thought it was common knowledge. Or are you talking a change in what they consider the cause?

WTS, it's the same old round and round. My stance is same-sex attraction and most likely gender confusion are processes that occur in the brain and the fact that it occurs in less than 3% makes it an abnormality. What is you view? (Besides a bumper sticker)

[Vas Deferens]

(03-30-2016, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don'see any reason to try as over 97% of the population shares my trait; but, I am pretty sure the attraction could be suppressed or replaced with something I valued more. Kinda like a Nun does.

Can a schzophrinic be cured?

Are you talking about the change of category in 1973ish? I thought it was common knowledge. Or are you talking a change in what they consider the cause?

WTS, it's the same old round and round. My stance is same-sex attraction and most likely gender confusion are processes that occur in the brain and the fact that it occurs in less than 3% makes it an abnormality. What is you view? (Besides a bumper sticker)

And like Priests do so well.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-30-2016, 05:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don'see any reason to try as over 97% of the population shares my trait;

Approximately 2% of the world's population has green eyes.  Green eyes aren't considered a disorder or an abnormality.

Quote:but, I am pretty sure the attraction could be suppressed or replaced with something I valued more. Kinda like a Nun does.

How come priests aren't as successful as nuns at suppressing or replacing their attraction with something of greater value?

Quote:Can a schzophrinic be cured?

I'm unaware of a cure for schizophrenia.

Quote:Are you talking about the change of category in 1973ish? I thought it was common knowledge. Or are you talking a change in what they consider the cause?

Are you referring to the American Psychiatric Association or the American Psychological Association?

Quote:WTS, it's the same old round and round. My stance is same-sex attraction and most likely gender confusion are processes that occur in the brain and the fact that it occurs in less than 3% makes it an abnormality. What is you view? (Besides a bumper sticker)

Some Christian chick in Texas claimed she controlled a tornado.  Some Muslims claimed the 9/11 attacks were the same god's punishment against America.  You believed the Christian because she is Christian.  So I don't put any stock in your beliefs.  

Intelligence occurs in the brain, genius occurs in less than 3%, but it doesn't make it an abnormality.  Your view that different is abnormal regarding sexual attraction and gender identity is based upon your religion.  It is stereotypical and bigoted.  As far as my beliefs as to the etiology of these "abnormalities", I don't know.  No one does.  Except you.  Regardless, I'm pretty sure god is their co-pilot, too.  How's that for a bumper sticker?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-30-2016, 05:00 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I think everyone can be "changed",  providing prime circumstances.
Life in prison, stranded on a desert island, ect...
It is my opinion that the brain actually changes, given certain conditions.

So while you aren't attracted to men, you're willing to learn?  I like your attitude.  Attitudes like yours are why Alexander the Great was able to conquer so much of the Ancient World.

[*bfine32*]

(03-30-2016, 05:55 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: And like Priests do so well.

They sure do. Although they probably don't have a 100% success rate

(03-30-2016, 06:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Approximately 2% of the world's population has green eyes.  Green eyes aren't considered a disorder or an abnormality.

How to get someone to stop reading the rest in hopes of discovering a point.

[Rotobeast]

(03-30-2016, 06:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So while you aren't attracted to men, you're willing to learn?  I like your attitude.  Attitudes like yours are why Alexander the Great was able to conquer so much of the Ancient World.

LOL
I suppose when I was younger with more hormones and given the one of the extreme circumstances, I think it possible.
I don't think it a willingness to learn, but attribute the possibility to the necessity of companionship.
As we are aging though, we are getting much closer to asexual.

[fredtoast]

Bfine, if your child is measured to have an IQ in the top 3% of the population what are you going to do to get him/her "cured"?

The ability to do complex math in one's head is clearly an "abnormality", right?

[Bengalzona]

(03-30-2016, 06:23 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So while you aren't attracted to men, you're willing to learn?  I like your attitude.  Attitudes like yours are why Alexander the Great was able to conquer so much of the Ancient World.

Apparently Alexander was willing to learn to be attracted to men.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-31-2016, 02:18 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Apparently Alexander was willing to learn to be attracted to men.

Exactly.

It was an accepted practice in ancient Greek society.  So what is the difference between Alexander's view that same sex attraction was a societal norm and bfine's view it is a disease which can be cured?  Theology.  Who here among us worships Zues?  No one.  Theology without reason is dangerous.  Exhibit A: the Middle East.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-30-2016, 01:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No doubt. I see it getting a lot of support on here.

As I have mentioned numerous times. IMO same sex attraction, Gender Confusion, ect.. are mental disorders (insert kinder term if you must).

it is just we are not interested in finding the cause and/or treatment for these particular disorders, you just must accept they are. To suggest their is anoother cure besides accepting them is just labeled bigoted by many who could care less.

The American College of Pediatricians cited in the OP's article was founded because they disagree with the American Academy of Pediatrician's statment supporting adoption by same sex couples.  Out of the millions of pediatricians in America, the American College of Pediatricians membership is < 200 which is well below 2% so that right there should tell bfine their opinion is "abnormal."

Furthermore, the American College of Pediatricians knows nothing about these prospective parents except for one thing; they are a member of a same sex couple hoping to adopt.  Based upon that one piece of information, the members of the American College of Pediatricians has determined they are unfit to be parents.  Yes, that is a bigoted stereotype.  Not only that, but they are advocated legislation be adopted to enforce their ethical and religious beliefs upon others.  That's one wrong on top of another pre-existing wrong.  As medical providers, their job isn't to force their ethics upon others, but rather provide the medical information/options so others can make an informed decision based upon their ethics.

[*bfine32*]

(03-31-2016, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1) Bfine, if your child is measured to have an IQ in the top 3% of the population what are you going to do to get him/her "cured"?

2) The ability to do complex math in one's head is clearly an "abnormality", right?

1) no need for "cure" his brain works the same as the vast population, just better

2) Yes, it is;especially in this day and age. Was there a point?


You forgot eye color.

[*bfine32*]

(03-31-2016, 03:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The American College of Pediatricians cited in the OP's article was founded because they disagree with the American Academy of Pediatrician's statment supporting adoption by same sex couples.  Out of the millions of pediatricians in America, the American College of Pediatricians membership is < 200 which is well below 2% so that right there should tell bfine their opinion is "abnormal."

Furthermore, the American College of Pediatricians knows nothing about these prospective parents except for one thing; they are a member of a same sex couple hoping to adopt.  Based upon that one piece of information, the members of the American College of Pediatricians has determined they are unfit to be parents.  Yes, that is a bigoted stereotype.  Not only that, but they are advocated legislation be adopted to enforce their ethical and religious beliefs upon others.  That's one wrong on top of another pre-existing wrong.  As medical providers, their job isn't to force their ethics upon others, but rather provide the medical information/options so others can make an informed decision based upon their ethics.

Thanks for sharing; however, I am unsure how this addresses my stance. I merely stated I feel same sex attraction is an abnormality in the brain. I have no weighed in on their ability to adopt or rear children.

I am sure, just like heteresexual parents, their sexual orientation should have little bearing on their ability to love, care for and rear a child.

See this is what makes the liberal so closed minded. Simply state you feel Same-sex attraction is a "mis-wiring' in the brain and suddenly you because a bigoted, religous freak, zealot, racist, sexist, homophobe,...

Hell you've even indicated you don't know what causes same-sex attraction, you just know I'm wrong.