McCarron wins grievance, will be UFA

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-16-2018, 03:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm calling it now...if the Bengals go to FA for a backup QB, it will be...
MATT MOORE!

Matt Moore is 33 years old, will be an UFA in March, and was the backup QB when Lazor and Coyle were in Miami.
He also should only command a contract in the realm of 2 years, $4-6 mill.

It just makes too much sense to not happen.

Wouldn't be against this, i like Matt Moore alright.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2018, 09:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Pretty much everyone here.

Got a link to where you claimed McCarron would win and become an UFA?  Because almost everyone else here and in the media thought the Bengals would win.

I wouldn't say people claimed it would happen, but there was a contingent here that was afraid it would happen.......knowing the Bengals.  Myself, I was unsure, but I sure didn't consider it out of the realm of possibility.  As I said, this is SO Bengals.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 02:34 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Wouldn’t that depend on what they got for him?

No.  Not at all.  No matter what we got for him some people would claim it was not as much as possible because everything Mike Brown does is a mistake.

[BenZoo2]

(02-16-2018, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Not at all.  No matter what we got for him some people would claim it was not as much as possible because everything Mike Brown does is a mistake.

You’re finally starting to see the light.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shake n Blake]

The best time to trade Macaroni was right after the 2015 season. Last I checked, a player's value doesn't go up as they age. Nor does it go up when they spend more and more time on the bench. We waited a full year and a half to attempt to trade him. Anyone spinning that as a positive deserves an honorary Geoff Hobson badge.

Now is this as big a deal as people are acting like? No. We'll still likely get a pick for him next year...assuming someone offers him a solid deal. A 2nd rounder this year vs a 3rd next year is the least of the franchise's issues. A 2nd rounder wasn't going to make or break us. A look at our history of 2nd round picks is all you need to know that.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2018, 05:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The best time to trade Macaroni was right after the 2015 season. Last I checked, a player's value doesn't go up as they age. Nor does it go up when they spend more and more time on the bench. We waited a full year and a half to attempt to trade him. Anyone spinning that as a positive deserves an honorary Geoff Hobson badge.

We did not have a viable option to replace McCarron.

Why in the world would you trade a back up QB immediately after you needed your back up QB in order to make the playoffs?  Bengals held onto Mccarron just like the Pats held on to Garraappoolloo.

[XenoMorph]

(02-16-2018, 05:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The best time to trade Macaroni was right after the 2015 season. Last I checked, a player's value doesn't go up as they age. Nor does it go up when they spend more and more time on the bench. We waited a full year and a half to attempt to trade him. Anyone spinning that as a positive deserves an honorary Geoff Hobson badge.

Now is this as big a deal as people are acting like? No. We'll still likely get a pick for him next year...assuming someone offers him a solid deal. A 2nd rounder this year vs a 3rd next year is the least of the franchise's issues. A 2nd rounder wasn't going to make or break us. A look at our history of 2nd round picks is all you need to know that.

True for his value not sure if we got any options on him back then.

And really it was more valuable to have a backup we know could step in for Dalton if he was hurt again or took longer to recover than expected. than a 2-4th draft pick...  decent backup QBs are very valuable and not in high supply (baring a cant refuse offer which it seems we never received)

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-16-2018, 02:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the Bengals had traded McCarron a week before the deadline the same people bashing Mike Brown here would be bashing him for "moving to quick instead of being patient and getting more value".

LOLOLOL
I think everyone on here was on board with a 2nd and a 5th, much less a 2nd and a 3rd.
We need help this year, and we all know that we are not going to get it thru Free Agency, it has to come from the draft, so now we might get between a 3rd and 7th round pick for him, I would say most likely a 5th. So we rented a 5th rounder for 3 years, big whoop.

[BengalsRocker]

(02-16-2018, 05:46 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: LOLOLOL
I think everyone on here was on board with a 2nd and a 5th, much less a 2nd and a 3rd.
We need help this year, and we all know that we are not going to get it thru Free Agency, it has to come from the draft, so now we might get between a 3rd and 7th round pick for him, I would say most likely a 5th. So we rented a 5th rounder for 3 years, big whoop.

It's kind of ridiculous when you think about it.

People cry that AJM didn't have a chance to start and the Bengals were just holding back his future.

Who is to say he ever would have been considered starter material on any other team that picked him?

4 whole frickin' rounds went by and not a single team snatched him.

People will laugh but perhaps the Bengals picking him up was what SAVED his career.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-16-2018, 06:36 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: It's kind of ridiculous when you think about it.

People cry that AJM didn't have a chance to start and the Bengals were just holding back his future.

Who is to say he ever would have been considered starter material on any other team that picked him?

4 whole frickin' rounds went by and not a single team snatched him.

People will laugh but perhaps the Bengals picking him up was what SAVED his career.

Did you read Stonyhands post on the previous page?

Seriously thinks AJM should of had a chance to beat out Dalton. AJM shouldn't of beat out Driskel from his play last year.

I wish AJM all the best and hope he does well but unless he has a great O-line i doubt he does anything but becomes another David Carr.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-16-2018, 05:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The best time to trade Macaroni was right after the 2015 season. Last I checked, a player's value doesn't go up as they age. Nor does it go up when they spend more and more time on the bench.

I'm far from an expert, and could be talking out my arse a bit, but always thought a younger player with years left on their deal was a much more desirable option from a trade-standpoint.

The players new team only takes on the salary and playing bonuses, NOT the signing bonus portion of the contract and cap hit (It's been paid, the cap stays on the trading teams books). So he'll come in cheaper cap wise than even his rookie deal. = PLUS.

Biggest reason though, the new team has a ridiculous amount of more leverage. When it's years (plural) on the deal, and not a single year, it opens up quite a bit. You have more time to evaluate the player if you like. And if you want to invest long-time earlier in his deal, you're going to get a better price for locking up early.

A big problem for a lot of teams, especially with QB's, is the idea that if you trade for a guy like him late in his deal you're often forced to immediately invest long-term, or you have to apply a Franchise Tag. Cuz as soon as the lone season starts, the clock is ticking.

IMHO, the perfect examples of this are guys like Kevin Kolb and Brock Osweiler.  Player has a limited resume, but is WAY overpaid. Urgency drives this as much as the market.  This is how Jimmy Garrapalo is now the highest paid player in NFL history. Guys started, what, 8 games. He was decent but not great.  Well, the Niner's had to turn around almost immediate and evaluate his future there.  And they paid for it. 

Long story short, we're in agreement on his value. Was highest after 2015. He had two years remaining (plenty of time to evaluate and plan) and he was coming off legitimate playing time, with proven, recent stats.  He just gets older, more expensive, and his game experience goes from recent and proven ti stale and dated.

[Luvnit2]

We will now now how teams value him. Let's see if there is a competition and anyone gives him big bucks or what I call 1st round tender money of 12 to 14 million plus per year. If not, maybe getting a second the Browns offer (pick #33) was a solid deal and Browns and not Bengals screwed it up.

I know we love to hate on the Bengals and MB, but reality is if we trade him after 2015, we have nothing behind him so have to go spend a pick or sign a free agent QB. Who nows how that would have played out? In the end we likely get the number 1 comp. picck in round 3 in 2019 for a guy we drafted in round 4 or 5 so still a win right???

[GodFather]

Why are you guys shocked, this is the Bengal way day in and day out. Lets let Whit and Z go....hey I have a great idea lets re-sign Marvin for 2 more years because these past two years were soooooooo promising because we knocked 2 potential playoff teams out of the playoffs.

Does any of that make sense? Does anything this organization do make any sense?

When Marvin says hes going to be active in the FA, we will see signings of mediocre players let go by other teams, and maybe MAYBE pick up one half way decent player. It will also by no means make a game changing difference.

AJ's just another classic flubber in a long list of Bengalisms...

[Shake n Blake]

(02-16-2018, 05:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We did not have a viable option to replace McCarron.

Why in the world would you trade a back up QB immediately after you needed your back up QB in order to make the playoffs?  Bengals held onto Mccarron just like the Pats held on to Garraappoolloo.

Yeah, but I believe the Pats held on to Jimmy G so long because they intended for him to take over when Brady fell off and retired. It just didn't go according to plan and Brady is obviously still playing at a high level...so they finally had to bail. I don't think having a high quality backup in case of injury was ever the priority for keeping him. 

If teams have a quality young backup, the value of the pick they could get in return usually trumps how much they value having that backup. They almost always get traded or take over the starting job.

(02-16-2018, 05:29 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: True for his value not sure if we got any options on him back then.

And really it was more valuable to have a backup we know could step in for Dalton if he was hurt again or took longer to recover than expected. than a 2-4th draft pick...  decent backup QBs are very valuable and not in high supply (baring a cant refuse offer which it seems we never received)

This is where we disagree. Good young backup QB's are rare and often hold trade value due to potential. There are plenty of good backup QB's that aren't young though. I preferred taking the pick and the good old backup over keeping Mac.

If Dalton suffers a major injury, we're pretty well boned anyway. McCarron wound up going 2-3 in games he appeared in, despite all the hype. He held his own pretty well, but we could've found another backup capable of going 2-3 over a stretch.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I like AJ McCarron a lot and he was a terrific Cincinnati Bengal. Think of how exciting that final playoff game was!

Some team will be very fortunate to have AJ. I wish he, Katherine, and their family well. Our community was blessed by their presence.

[t3r3e3]

(02-16-2018, 05:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We did not have a viable option to replace McCarron.

Why in the world would you trade a back up QB immediately after you needed your back up QB in order to make the playoffs?  Bengals held onto Mccarron just like the Pats held on to Garraappoolloo.

Several teams have traded high on backups recently after the backups played decently. Packers with Flynn, Pats with Cassel (and I think Hoyer), Bradford two times come to mind quickly. Those teams turned around and drafted, new, younger backups to fill in behind starters. The entire point is receiving good value for an asset you don’t plan on using. The Bengals did not do this. The Pats did with Jimmy only after Brady won the power struggle and ownership accepted that he is going to be there for another 4-5 seasons.

[*Nately120*]

(02-16-2018, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  Not at all.  No matter what we got for him some people would claim it was not as much as possible because everything Mike Brown does is a mistake.

Agreed.  It's a shame a man can't stink at his job for over a quarter of a century without people being all hard on him, and stuff.  

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2018, 10:29 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I like AJ McCarron a lot and he was a terrific Cincinnati Bengal.  Think of how exciting that final playoff game was!

Some team will be very fortunate to have AJ.  I wish he, Katherine, and their family well.  Our community was blessed by their presence.

I agree; dude was a class act from day 1 until the end. One of the most amazing things I have seen in my life following sports was the reaction of many on this board when we took him in the 5th. Folks in the draft day forum lost their minds talking about how terrible he is.

He had the reputation as the spoiled diva; yet never displayed that for one minute here. The dude had us moving on to the next round of the playoffs, I have not seen a Bengal QB do that since Boomer Esiason. 

Good luck to AJ and at the worst some team is going to get a professional back up. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2018, 03:08 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Several teams have traded high on backups recently after the backups played decently.  Packers with Flynn, Pats with Cassel (and I think Hoyer), Bradford two times come to mind quickly.  Those teams turned around and drafted, new, younger backups to fill in behind starters.  The entire point is receiving good value for an asset you don’t plan on using.  The Bengals did not do this.  The Pats did with Jimmy only after Brady won the power struggle and ownership accepted that he is going to be there for another 4-5 seasons.

Matt Flynn wasn't traded and Cassel was only after being tagged. We can still be like the Pats and  tag McCarron; do you think we should? 

[*Go Cards*]

(02-18-2018, 12:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Matt Flynn wasn't traded and Cassel was only after being tagged. We can still be like the Pats and  tag McCarron; do you think we should? 

It is not a bad idea at all. 

But think with so many QB options out there we could get left holding the bag.