Media being inappropriate when it comes to immigration

[Benton]

(02-12-2018, 06:04 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: He will never get back in....  violated his green card and had a fraud allegation.    No reason why USCIS will do him any favors moving forward.   Not when there are actually people waiting who follow the laws exactly.

Lemme edit this to say it’s highly unlikely he will ever get back here.    He could do a cr-1 now but wth the fraud allegation and failed GC it will probably take a lot longer.

If both this and what Pat are saying, then it shows problems inherent in the system.

A person who comes here, maintains businesses and provides jobs, pays taxes... that's who we should be keeping. That's a productive member of society. If his only crime is breaking broken immigration laws, meh. I'd take him over someone from [Insertnameistan] because we have a quota.

[Benton]

(02-12-2018, 10:14 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: There is no legitimate argument for keeping him or anyone who messes up paperwork here.  You either follow the laws or you do not.  
 

We're bloated with laws. We've got waaaaay too much bureaucracy. I'm not going to fault anyone for not being able to keep up with it.

Simpler government is better government. 

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 01:23 AM)Benton Wrote: If both this and what Pat are saying, then it shows problems inherent in the system.

A person who comes here, maintains businesses and provides jobs, pays taxes... that's who we should be keeping. That's a productive member of society. If his only crime is breaking broken immigration laws, meh. I'd take him over someone from [Insertnameistan] because we have a quota.

Well it’s good to see you are against the diversity lottery.

All this guy had to do was not leave the country between green card to remove conditions. 2-3 years in some cases. If he was going to leave then file the N-470. Or just come back every 11 months for 2-3 months. Until he can at least remove conditions.

If being a legal USC was important to him he would have taken care of these small things.

They can’t make this any more straight forward.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 01:28 AM)Benton Wrote: We're bloated with laws. We've got waaaaay too much bureaucracy. I'm not going to fault anyone for not being able to keep up with it.

Simpler government is better government. 

USCIS is pretty simple. It’s backed up because of all these DACA illegals so everything runs slowly but had this guy not decided to run off to Brazil he would be a USC.

It might make sense if he ran back to Jordan because his mom was dying.... but he decided to go to Brazil. It’s blantant irresponsibility.

[BmorePat87]

(02-13-2018, 01:59 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well it’s good to see you are against the diversity lottery.  

All this guy had to do was not leave the country between green card to remove conditions.  2-3 years in some cases.   If he was going to leave then file the N-470.  Or just come back every 11 months for 2-3 months.   Until he can at least remove conditions.  

If being a legal USC was important to him he would have taken care of these small things.    

They can’t make this any more straight forward.

Requiring a business owner and father to leave the country for 3 years after living here for decades because of a lapse in paperwork is actually the opposite of straight forward. 

[Benton]

(02-13-2018, 02:03 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: USCIS is pretty simple.   It’s backed up because of all these DACA illegals...

Well, no.

Immigration started backing up in the 70s-80s, which led to the the amnesty act of 1986. Reforms from the act cleaned up a few problems, but didn't address all the issues. Nobody bothered fixing those problems through the 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s. The backlog has nothing to do with DACA, DACA is just a result of nobody wanting to fix things.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 01:30 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, no.

Immigration started backing up in the 70s-80s, which led to the the amnesty act of 1986. Reforms from the act cleaned up a few problems, but didn't address all the issues. Nobody bothered fixing those problems through the 80s, 90s, 00s or 10s. The backlog has nothing to do with DACA, DACA is just a result of nobody wanting to fix things.

Your right we should have been deporting illegals all along. Maybe then congress would have done something. As I have said over and over.... Trump is the best thing to happen for illegals. Now he forces immigration. To be dealt with, and they would most likely get at least TPS. That is ofc if the democrats are willing to come over and put some real restrictions going forward.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 09:32 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Requiring a business owner and father to leave the country for 3 years after living here for decades because of a lapse in paperwork is actually the opposite of straight forward. 

Lapse in paperwork? That’s Rich.

No idea why you keep making an emotional argument for this guy..... yeah it sucks but in the end it’s his own fault. As I have said ..... either he was incompetent or just didn’t care. Whichever is the case is reason enough to see him deported.

And btw they don’t just swarm in and deport you. They send you letter after letter letting you know you are out of status.

[BmorePat87]

(02-13-2018, 02:50 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lapse in paperwork?  That’s Rich.  

No idea why you keep making an emotional argument for this guy..... yeah it sucks but in the end it’s his own fault.  As I have said ..... either he was incompetent or just didn’t care.   Whichever is the case is reason enough to see him deported.  

And btw they don’t just swarm in and deport you.   They send you letter after letter letting you know you are out of status.

I'm making an economic argument for him: "He contributes to his local economy as the owner of many businesses". Your argument is the emotional one: "he didn't file the proper paperwork so deport him because that's bad and incompetent". 

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 03:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm making an economic argument for him. Your argument is the emotional one: "he didn't file the proper paperwork so deport him because that's bad and incompetent". 

My position is not emotional. He didn’t do what was required to stay. When you do not meet the conditions you agreed to meet then you do not get to stay.

It is that simple. As I said I feel bad for the guy but in the end this happened because of his own doing.

[Belsnickel]

(02-13-2018, 02:03 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: USCIS is pretty simple. It’s backed up because of all these DACA illegals so everything runs slowly but had this guy not decided to run off to Brazil he would be a USC.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on this. I know people that have done it all above board and have navigated the complexities of the system. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of money, to make it all work. For example, the husband of a professor here. He is Swedish and was here at U Penn working on his doctorate with a student visa. He went to renew, and was denied. He was the right kind of immigrant, but that didn't matter. Because of this, he and the professor I know moved up their wedding so that he could then be classified differently. It still took a lot of time and money and they had to work with someone to help them navigate this all.

And let me be clear, these are two people that are anthropologists. They travel the world for their research. If they aren't here teaching, they are in China or Mongolia doing research. So they are not unfamiliar with immigration and customs, yet they still had to hire someone to help them navigate the system that took a ton of time and money to work through.

This was all before DACA existed.

[BmorePat87]

(02-13-2018, 03:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: My position is not emotional.   He didn’t do what was required to stay.  When you do not meet the conditions you agreed to meet then you do not get to stay.  

It is that simple.   As I said I feel bad for the guy but in the end this happened because of his own doing.

Arguing that the government should spend money to deport a business owner based only on principle for not filling out the right paperwork rather than just fixing the situation is an emotional argument. 

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 03:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm going to have to call bullshit on this. I know people that have done it all above board and have navigated the complexities of the system. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of money, to make it all work. For example, the husband of a professor here. He is Swedish and was here at U Penn working on his doctorate with a student visa. He went to renew, and was denied. He was the right kind of immigrant, but that didn't matter. Because of this, he and the professor I know moved up their wedding so that he could then be classified differently. It still took a lot of time and money and they had to work with someone to help them navigate this all.

And let me be clear, these are two people that are anthropologists. They travel the world for their research. If they aren't here teaching, they are in China or Mongolia doing research. So they are not unfamiliar with immigration and customs, yet they still had to hire someone to help them navigate the system that took a ton of time and money to work through.

This was all before DACA existed.

You do not need anyone to file these papers.

Why was he denied?

Looks like he either went for the k-1 or cr-1. Either way when he got his green card I’m sure he didn’t leave the country and violate the terms of his LPR.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 03:29 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Arguing that the government should spend money to deport a business owner based only on principle for not filling out the right paperwork rather than just fixing the situation is an emotional argument. 

If you don’t like the law then call your rep to change it. I would love to change the immigration law of this country.

And as I said before if you really wanna help someone then educate yourself and help people file. They can’t be deported if they are in status.

[BmorePat87]

(02-13-2018, 03:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If you don’t like the law then call your rep to change it.   I would love to change the immigration law of this country.  

And as I said before if you really wanna help someone then educate yourself and help people file.   They can’t be deported if they are in status.

If a congressman couldn't help this guy from a broken system that penalized a business owner for not filling out a form 30 years ago, I doubt I can.

But, common sense, fiscal conservatism says we spend the money to harass, arrest, and deport this guy rather than just fixing his status and keeping his many businesses open.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 03:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If a congressman couldn't help this guy from a broken system that penalized a business owner for not filling out a form 30 years ago, I doubt I can.

But, common sense, fiscal conservatism says we spend the money to harass, arrest, and deport this guy rather than just fixing his status and keeping his many businesses open.

His wife and daughters are USC’s. The businesses will stay open. I am sure his wife will go to Jordan and his daughters will be here to run the businesses.

You can’t help this guy but maybe you can go out and mother hen other people to get their paperwork right.

Or you could just support the raise act and make the process simpler.

[BmorePat87]

(02-13-2018, 07:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: His wife and daughters are USC’s.   The businesses will stay open.  I am sure his wife will go to Jordan and his daughters will be here to run the businesses.

You can’t help this guy but maybe you can go out and mother hen other people to get their paperwork right.  

Or you could just support the raise act and make the process simpler.

I'll just keep providing a high quality and rigorous education to all students in my district. 

[StLucieBengal]

(02-13-2018, 07:41 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'll just keep providing a high quality and rigorous education to all students in my district. 

Make sure your illegals know how to fill out immigration forms. We don’t want one of them to be a news story on the forum.

[BmorePat87]

(02-13-2018, 08:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Make sure your illegals know how to fill out immigration forms.  We don’t want one of them to be a news story on the forum.

I don't know if any of my students are here illegally, but I'm teaching my kids to critically read, analyze texts, and evaluate sources. If you're curious, here's a rubric we use for these historical thinking skills. 

https://www.umbc.edu/che/arch/images/ARCH_Historical_Thinking%20Skills_Rubric_Secondary_rev_2-17-14.pdf

More information can be found here

https://sheg.stanford.edu/


With this, they should be able to handle some paper work. But if they make a mistake, hopefully the government will be as lenient as they are with nearly everything else when it comes to human error.

[GMDino]

(02-13-2018, 09:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't know if any of my students are here illegally, but I'm teaching my kids to critically read, analyze texts, and evaluate sources. If you're curious, here's a rubric we use for these historical thinking skills. 

https://www.umbc.edu/che/arch/images/ARCH_Historical_Thinking%20Skills_Rubric_Secondary_rev_2-17-14.pdf

More information can be found here

https://sheg.stanford.edu/


With this, they should be able to handle some paper work. But if they make a mistake, hopefully the government will be as lenient as they are with nearly everything else when it comes to human error.

You mean like Jared's paperwork to get the clearances he still doesn't have?