Miscarriage of Justice

[*PhilHos*]

Tell me how this can happen.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-news-woman-hangs-toddler-avoids-prison-20180717-story.html

Quote:A former day care provider who hanged a toddler in her Minneapolis home was let off the hook by a judge who cited a "perfect storm" of events in sentencing her to probation.

Nataliia Karia avoided prison time despite pleading guilty to attempted murder, third-degree assault and criminal vehicular operation for hitting a pedestrian, a bicyclist and another driver as she fled from her home in November of 2016.

A father was dropping off his son at Karia's home when he found a toddler hanging from a noose in the basement. He released the child, and the 16-month-old boy survived.

Karia fled in her vehicle, striking a bicyclist and dragging another motorist 10 blocks after striking his car, according to the Star Tribune. The bicyclist needed a rod inserted in his leg to avoid amputation, according to the newspaper.

She would also hit a vehicle driven by a pregnant woman. Karia threatened to jump off an overpass before she was taken into custody.

Hennepin County District Judge Jay Quam sentenced her to 10-years probation on Monday after agreeing with doctors that she was a "low risk" to commit more crimes. Judge Quam said her actions were “the perfect storm of factors unlikely to ever be repeated," according to the Star Tribune.

Karia spent 20 months in jail and will get credit for her time already served. She was expected to leave jail no later than Tuesday.

“We came in here with our hearts in our throats," defense lawyer Brockton Hunter told the Star Tribune.

Karia recounted during the two-hour hearing how her husband repeatedly abused, assaulted and threatened to kill her after they came from Ukraine in 2006, according to the newspaper.

“I don’t want to push this terrible crime onto my husband," she said in Russian, according to the paper. "I just want to explain what happened. Your Honor, my children need me … Give me a chance to resume a normal life.”

Karia will be on electronic home monitoring for at least two months, according to the Star Tribune, and was ordered to undergo court-ordered mental health treatment. She is not allowed have unsupervised contact with her daughters or other minors.

Prosecutor Christina Warren asked for a 13-year prison sentence, expressing doubts that Karia can receive the supervision she needs.

"Instead of being the person most able and willing to protect [the boy] from harm, she ... left him hanging by a noose around his neck in her basement," Warren wrote in a court filing obtained by the Star Tribune.

I don't understand how someone can be caught hanging a 2 year-old and hitting 3 different people with her car -1 of which was dragged a significant distance - gets virtually no prison time. Can anyone make sense of this? I mean, even if she was found not guilty by insanity, wouldn't she still have to spend significant time "locked away" in a mental institution?

[Tiger Teeth]

This doesn't even make sense. That judge needs to be removed from the bench. Period.

[HarleyDog]

Fred will chime in soon with lawyer type stuff.

[*michaelsean*]

Yeah I can't even come up with a bad explanation. "We don't think she will do it again?" So you get a hanging a toddler freebie? I can't think of many more horrific crimes.

[XenoMorph]

(07-17-2018, 06:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Tell me how this can happen.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ny-news-woman-hangs-toddler-avoids-prison-20180717-story.html


I don't understand how someone can be caught hanging a 2 year-old and hitting 3 different people with her car -1 of which was dragged a significant distance - gets virtually no prison time. Can anyone make sense of this? I mean, even if she was found not guilty by insanity, wouldn't she still have to spend significant time "locked away" in a mental institution?

it said she did already serve 20 months...  But I wouldn't agree shes not a risk to commit more crimes... 


We don't have Mental insitutions anymore

[*PhilHos*]

(07-18-2018, 09:01 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: This doesn't even make sense.  That judge needs to be removed from the bench.  Period.

At the very least, the judge needs some kind of punishment for this.

(07-18-2018, 09:09 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Fred will chime in soon with lawyer type stuff.

I hope he does. I can't fathom how someone can nearly kill 3 people and their punishment is time served (which turns out to be less than 2 years) and probation. That's ridiculous and inexcusable. And I'd like the opinion of someone who works in the legal field.

(07-18-2018, 10:06 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah I can't even come up with a bad explanation.  "We don't think she will do it again?"  So you get a hanging a toddler freebie?  I can't think of many more horrific crimes.

Yep, the toddler is probably mentally scarred and will have to live with this for a long time, if not the rest of their life, but they should be comforted in knowhing that she PROBABLY won't do this to someone else.

(07-18-2018, 11:06 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: it said she did already serve 20 months..

True, but nearly killing 3 people - one of which was a toddler in her care - should be punished more severely than 1 and a half years in prison.

(07-18-2018, 11:06 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: We don't have Mental insitutions anymore

The point being that even people who commit more heinous crimes and are found not guilty by reason of insanity are still basically locked away for some time.

[Tiger Teeth]

(07-18-2018, 11:06 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: it said she did already serve 20 months...  But I wouldn't agree shes not a risk to commit more crimes... 


We don't have Mental insitutions anymore

My wife is a nurse at a State Hospital which is a mental institution.  

[XenoMorph]

(07-18-2018, 11:27 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: My wife is a nurse at a State Hospital which is a mental institution.  

doesn't mean there is one in that area.

[Benton]

(07-18-2018, 11:22 AM)PhilHos Wrote:  

True, but nearly killing 3 people - one of which was a toddler in her care - should be punished more severely than 1 and a half years in prison.

Possible, but not necessarily.

Depending on the laws of the state, sentences for third degree assault and attempted murder could be low. If there were no firearms or drug enhancements, there may be a low max sentence. And if it's a first time offender, and extenuating circumstances, a judge may be lenient in sentencing. It's not uncommon in some areas for simple assault or attempted murder to get pled and have a long probation sentence rather than a long court trial and also a long jail sentence... part of which would have been served during the long trial.

I know when cases like this gets coverage and stand out it's easy to say "hey, that judge is a moron, how could this happen!?" but if that judge has been on the bench more than a few years, this probably isn't so uncommon comparatively. 

[fredtoast]

If this behavior was a psychotic event that occurred due to unusual circumstances that are unlikely to happen again then this is an appropriate sentence.

[*michaelsean*]

She hung a three year old, and only the arrival of someone else saved that child. Not a child accidentally got hung due to her negligence. She tied a noose and hung him.

[Tiger Teeth]

(07-18-2018, 01:32 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: doesn't mean there is one in that area.

True.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-18-2018, 02:10 PM)Benton Wrote: Possible, but not necessarily.

Depending on the laws of the state, sentences for third degree assault and attempted murder could be low. If there were no firearms or drug enhancements, there may be a low max sentence. And if it's a first time offender, and extenuating circumstances, a judge may be lenient in sentencing. It's not uncommon in some areas for simple assault or attempted murder to get pled and have a long probation sentence rather than a long court trial and also a long jail sentence... part of which would have been served during the long trial.

I know when cases like this gets coverage and stand out it's easy to say "hey, that judge is a moron, how could this happen!?" but if that judge has been on the bench more than a few years, this probably isn't so uncommon comparatively. 

(07-18-2018, 02:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If this behavior was a psychotic event that occurred due to unusual circumstances that are unlikely to happen again then this is an appropriate sentence.

She actively tried to kill a TODDLER and in the process of escaping that situation nearly killed 2 others and hit someone else's vehicle. I don't see how whether or not she'd do it again should even be a factor to consider. Not to mention that's at least 4 different crimes right there and I'm sure you could add even more. It just seems that, unless this was part of a plea bargain, that there should have been more serious repercussions.

[Millhouse]

On the surface it looks like she should have gotten more time. But without knowing all the specifics involved, I dont know.

[Benton]

(07-19-2018, 10:50 AM)PhilHos Wrote: She actively tried to kill a TODDLER and in the process of escaping that situation nearly killed 2 others and hit someone else's vehicle. I don't see how whether or not she'd do it again should even be a factor to consider. Not to mention that's at least 4 different crimes right there and I'm sure you could add even more. It just seems that, unless this was part of a plea bargain, that there should have been more serious repercussions.

The stories I've read haven't mentioned a plea deal, which may not mean anything. Prosecutors (especially those who are elected) don't always like to publicize that they offered less time instead of going to a harsher sentence, especially in high profile cases.

I'm surprised it's 10 years probation instead of a deferred sentence. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-18-2018, 02:45 PM)michaelsean Wrote: She hung a three year old, and only the arrival of someone else saved that child.  Not a child accidentally got hung due to her negligence.  She tied a noose and hung him.

Right

She didn't backhand a small child out of the high chair knocking him over injuring him, in a fit of rage, which would have been bad enough.

She took a rope, tied it around a defenseless child's neck, hung it up and left it to die. 

Vastly different

[fredtoast]

This was not a plea bargain. The judge gave her the sentence.

Sentencing is a complicated issue. If additional jail time is not needed as a deterrent to future crime or to protect the public then this was the proper sentence.

Sentencing involves more than just what a person did. It involves "why" they did it. Two people can commit the same action but get very different sentences based on the context and motive.

[*PhilHos*]

(07-19-2018, 02:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sentencing is a complicated issue.  If additional jail time is not needed as a deterrent to future crime or to protect the public then this was the proper sentence.

But, why? She tried to kill a kid and nearly killed 2 more. How is 20 months in prison and probation a proper sentence?

(07-19-2018, 02:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sentencing involves more than just what a person did.  It involves "why" they did it.  Two people can commit the same action but get very different sentences based on the context and motive.

I get that, but I don't understand how trying to kill a kid and then nearly killing 2 more people when fleeing from that first crime doesn't warrant a harsher sentence without extenuating circumstances?

[masonbengals fan]

Her sentence should be for what she did not what she will do.

[HarleyDog]

(07-19-2018, 04:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I get that, but I don't understand how trying to kill a kid and then nearly killing 2 more people when fleeing from that first crime doesn't warrant a harsher sentence without extenuating circumstances?

That's a public opinion. In most if not all cases, if someone commits a crime, some want maximum judgement. However, if it was their spouse or child who did the same thing, they would want leniency. There are probably a lot of circumstances in this case we are not privy to. Although my first thought is to agree with you because I'm not privy as well, and based on what you posted in the OP I'm with you. However, I'm not sure I could confidently say either of us would feel the same if we were sitting on the bench and heard the whole story. That's what sucks about it all. We are not allowed the whole story. Just the thoughts and opinions of those reporting it.