NFL Protest

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-01-2017, 10:29 AM)GMDino Wrote: CAn I say the same about "alternative facts" being bandied about? Please?

You can say whatever you like, getting people to actually believe you is going to be your problem.

[JustWinBaby]

(10-01-2017, 07:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You can say whatever you like, getting people to actually believe you is going to be your problem.

Never stopped him before....why start now?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

LOL at everyone who cheered for Joe Mixon, but NFL players and owners locking arms after Trump spoke out was your last straw.

[GMDino]

Read that some of the 49ers still knelt and the Cardinals locked arms.

Any other teams do anything out of the ordinary?  I figured most of this would blow over in a week.  

As an aside none of the people who said they were giving up on the NFL have offered up the memorabilia or tickets yet. 

[GMDino]

(10-01-2017, 10:52 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: LOL at everyone who cheered for Joe Mixon, but NFL players and owners locking arms after Trump spoke out was your last straw.

Well of course!

They overlooked all the failing of the players, the taxpayer built stadiums and all the other warts but complained about TD celebrations and who stood for the anthem.

They're sports fans...

[GMDino]

So now I hear the Ravens asked for a moment of silence/prayer for unity BEFORE the anthem and the fans booed them while they kneeled...praying.

The team stood for the anthem.

Yep.  It's all about respect for the flag and veterans.  Got it.

[Luvnit2]

(10-02-2017, 10:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: So now I hear the Ravens asked for a moment of silence/prayer for unity BEFORE the anthem and the fans booed them while they kneeled...praying.

The team stood for the anthem.

Yep.  It's all about respect for the flag and veterans.  Got it.

It is about not bringing politics into the NFL. You know just like when you cheered when the NFL shut down Tebo praying. So now you agree, Tebo and the NFL players should be allowed to pray prior to every game on the field??

[GMDino]

(10-02-2017, 10:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is about not bringing politics into the NFL. You know just like when you cheered when the NFL shut down Tebo praying. So now you agree, Tebo and the NFL players should be allowed to pray prior to every game on the field??

Couple points:

1) I didn't care if Tebow kneeled.  I cared that he always made sure he was isolated in a spot where the cameras could see him kneel.

2) The NFL never "shut down" his kneeling.  He just wasn't a good enough QB to be in the league.

3) Players pray on the field all the time. Take a knee after a score, point to the sky, etc.  My take is that I don't believe any god cares about sports and who wins or loses.

4) All the talk was about disrespecting the troops and the flag.  Clearly it wasn't about that.

[*bfine32*]

I'll say it again:

These players are disrespecting the flag and the Nation it stands for.

Folks will say they are kneeling to bring attention to their cause and this is true; however, what causes this attention? A act of disrespecting the flag and the Nation it stands for.

I have also seen folks say the flag is nothing more than a "cloth"; is your wedding ring nothing more than a piece of jewelry? They will also try to trot out the one of 2 vets that "support" this disrespect and say "see, he gets it". But do a little experiment go down to your local American Legion of VFW and take your own survey.

They have the right; similar to the right one has to burn the flag. Just don't expect me to applaud your decision to exercise this right. I have read where FOX will no longer broadcast the Anthems prior to the game. So at least they are trying to take the light away from the forum.

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2017, 10:52 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: LOL at everyone who cheered for Joe Mixon, but NFL players and owners locking arms after Trump spoke out was your last straw.

Yesterday one of my "related by marriage" family members and his uncle were plainly stating how they were done with the NFL.  They did this while wearing Penn State attire and after spending the whole day at the Penn State game.  Meh, to each his own!

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-02-2017, 10:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is about not bringing politics into the NFL. You know just like when you cheered when the NFL shut down Tebo praying. So now you agree, Tebo and the NFL players should be allowed to pray prior to every game on the field??

If you're from Hamilton County, you're a thousandaire who paid to purchase a seat "license" for the privilege to buy tickets in a stadium you paid to build for a billionaire because of . . . politics.

[Luvnit2]

(10-02-2017, 02:14 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If you're from Hamilton County, you're a thousandaire who paid to purchase a seat "license" for the privilege to buy tickets in a stadium you paid to build for a billionaire because of . . . politics.

I am not from Hamilton County and your arguments only add to reasons I made a great decision to boycott the NFL yesterday. The NFL does not deserve an anti trust exemption which would hurt the owners. The players need to understand exercising their right to free speech doe not come without consequences for those who disagree with using the flag and the anthem as their platform to launch protests.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-02-2017, 02:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not from Hamilton County and your arguments only add to reasons I made a great decision to boycott the NFL yesterday. The NFL does not deserve an anti trust exemption which would hurt the owners. The players need to understand exercising their right to free speech doe not come without consequences for those who disagree with using the flag and the anthem as their platform to launch protests.

If you're not from Hamilton County, then you paid for a license to buy tickets in a stadium someone else paid for. The national anthem and the flag are forms of patriotism and in some cases nationalism which is inherently political. You're perfectly within your rights to protest the protests, I just don't understand why people make the keep politics out of football argument.

[*jason*]

(10-02-2017, 02:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not from Hamilton County and your arguments only add to reasons I made a great decision to boycott the NFL yesterday. The NFL does not deserve an anti trust exemption which would hurt the owners. The players need to understand exercising their right to free speech doe not come without consequences for those who disagree with using the flag and the anthem as their platform to launch protests.

You boycotting for 1 day, or are you gonna keep it up? Just curious.

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2017, 03:07 PM)jason Wrote: You boycotting for 1 day, or are you gonna keep it up? Just curious.

Yesterday he made a thread saying we should have kept Elliot instead of Bullock because of his upside, so I can't square that action with  a man who is done with the NFL.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-02-2017, 03:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yesterday he made a thread saying we should have kept Elliot instead of Bullock because of his upside, so I can't square that action with  a man who is done with the NFL.

If you're a fan of your team to the extent that you post on an internet forum related to your team then you're in the top 1% of hard core NFL fans.  Such fans are likely to stay fans.  What they could, and likely will, do is spend less money on peripheral NFL product, which is a not insubstantial amount of the NFL's income.  Bottom line, this will hurt the NFL's bottom line. (pun!)  IMO it's never a good idea to take a political stand as a business, as Jordan said, Republicans buy shoes too.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-02-2017, 03:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you're a fan of your team to the extent that you post on an internet forum related to your team then you're in the top 1% of hard core NFL fans.  Such fans are likely to stay fans.  What they could, and likely will, do is spend less money on peripheral NFL product, which is a not insubstantial amount of the NFL's income.  Bottom line, this will hurt the NFL's bottom line. (pun!)  IMO it's never a good idea to take a political stand as a business, as Jordan said, Republicans buy shoes too.

Agreed, unless it is to call your fries American Fries instead of French Fries. I wish they would keep politics out of fast food.

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2017, 03:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you're a fan of your team to the extent that you post on an internet forum related to your team then you're in the top 1% of hard core NFL fans.  Such fans are likely to stay fans.  What they could, and likely will, do is spend less money on peripheral NFL product, which is a not insubstantial amount of the NFL's income.  Bottom line, this will hurt the NFL's bottom line. (pun!)  IMO it's never a good idea to take a political stand as a business, as Jordan said, Republicans buy shoes too.

So how does the NFL not lose money on this one?  Remove the anthem?  Not televise it?  Not have the players on the field when its playing?  Force players to stand during it?  Fire those who don't?  I don't see what the NFL is doing or not doing as a political statement anymore than I'm making a political statement because my neighbors on both sides have the flag hanging off their porch and I don't.

What is the solution here?  Or the NFL could just take this lump and still rake in billions.  I just don't see the NFL making a political statement here because they won't adhere to the demands of a specific political party. All I'm saying is if you are DONE with the NFL, then be done with it. Or watch the games and write down all the sponsors you see and stop buying their products. If Miller Lite runs 10000 ads during NFL Sunday tell everyone that Miller Lite hates veterans because they subsidize hateful speech and expression towards this country and stop buying it.

That's how you boycott. Not by saying you are done with something and then talking about who we play next week. Then again, that's just my opinion. From what I've seen so far the people who are "done" with the NFL complain the most about how much money the players make. Complaining about how much money athletes make has been going on for decades, so this doesn't seem too terrible new to me.

[Benton]

(10-02-2017, 03:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So how does the NFL not lose money on this one?  Remove the anthem?  Not televise it?  Not have the players on the field when its playing?  Force players to stand during it?  Fire those who don't?  I don't see what the NFL is doing or not doing as a political statement anymore than I'm making a political statement because my neighbors on both sides have the flag hanging off their porch and I don't.

What is the solution here?  Or the NFL could just take this lump and still rake in billions.  I just don't see the NFL making a political statement here because they won't adhere to the demands of a specific political party.  All I'm saying is if you are DONE with the NFL, then be done with it.  Or watch the games and write down all the sponsors you see and stop buying their products.  If Miller Lite runs 10000 ads during NFL Sunday tell everyone that Miller Lite hates veterans because they subsidize hateful speech and expression towards this country and stop buying it.

That's how you boycott.  Not by saying you are done with something and then talking about who we play next week.  Then again, that's just my opinion.  From what I've seen so far the people who are "done" with the NFL complain the most about how much money the players make.  Complaining about how much money athletes make has been going on for decades, so this doesn't seem too terrible new to me.

To the bold, pretty much. 

There have been bigger bumps. At least this way you've still got games going on, which beats the idea of telling players they have to stand and risking a strike.

The NFL doesn't have to make any statement they don't want to. A politician made opinionated, derisive comments about a football player and First Amendment rights. Fellow players responded. But the NFL — or owners — don't have to do much if they don't want to, outside of saying it's between employees and a guy with a microphone who needs to vilify someone. This week, it's the NFL (check that one off the old grudge list). 

It's like the poem written about this specific period in time:

Quote:First they came for the Immigrants, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not an Immigrant.

Then they came for the Journalists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Journalist.
Then they came for the Football Players, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Football Player.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-02-2017, 03:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So how does the NFL not lose money on this one?  Remove the anthem?  Not televise it?  Not have the players on the field when its playing?  Force players to stand during it?  Fire those who don't?  I don't see what the NFL is doing or not doing as a political statement anymore than I'm making a political statement because my neighbors on both sides have the flag hanging off their porch and I don't.

The chance to address this was when it first started.  However, a prompt resolution would require actual leadership and decision making, both things that Goodell has shown he utterly lacks in all possible ways.  Any employer is completely within their right to prohibit protest or political actions/speech at their place of business.  The players aren't what's important in this regard, the fans are.  What I mean by this is that you may alienate players, but they're not going to find another employer who will pay them millions of dollars to play football.  This being the case then placating your fan base is the paramount concern.  Forcing the NFL to be apolitical by banning all forms of protest or political speech while you are representing the NFL (i.e. in uniform, at the stadium etc.) would be the smart business decision.  If you can fine William Gay for wearing purple cleats to raise domestic violence awareness in honor of his murdered mother you can fine players for engaging in political protest at their place of employment.

Quote:What is the solution here?  Or the NFL could just take this lump and still rake in billions.  I just don't see the NFL making a political statement here because they won't adhere to the demands of a specific political party.  All I'm saying is if you are DONE with the NFL, then be done with it.  Or watch the games and write down all the sponsors you see and stop buying their products.  If Miller Lite runs 10000 ads during NFL Sunday tell everyone that Miller Lite hates veterans because they subsidize hateful speech and expression towards this country and stop buying it.

I think the biggest impact will be, as I said, people no longer buying the merchandise and no longer watching games in which their team isn't playing.  Not related to these protests, but over the years I've pretty much stopped watching football unless it's a Steelers game.  I used to watch football all Sunday, plus NFL Primetime before it turned to crap, as well as MNF.  Now on bye weeks I take a bye as well.

Quote:That's how you boycott.  Not by saying you are done with something and then talking about who we play next week.  Then again, that's just my opinion.  From what I've seen so far the people who are "done" with the NFL complain the most about how much money the players make.  Complaining about how much money athletes make has been going on for decades, so this doesn't seem too terrible new to me.

You are correct, a hard boycott is not likely.  For real fans it's not that easy to turn off.  I'm not talking crap here, but you guys are perfect examples.  Being a Bengals fan has to be endlessly frustrating, yet you still watch/attend the games.  A soft boycott, as I described above, will likely happen though, people will care enough about this issue to stick with that.