NYT: Can my Children be friends with white people

[GMDino]

(11-14-2017, 11:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I’m not sure I have read a collection of more absurd notions in one post this side of a Dino Post.  

I’m not sure I have enough time or space in this forum to teach you how to not be a coward.   That was your father’s job.   If you don’t know the difference than I’m not sure what to say.   All I know is that you should t tell your child that people are out to get him and he should be afraid to the point he shouldn’t have any friends who are white.

Must not have been bullied enough as a kid.

Say, would it be cowardly to not tell someone what you think?  Like if someone thought all transgender people had a mental disorder but would not say it to some who knew someone that was transgender?

Sounds like a cowardly thing to me.  

[*michaelsean*]

(11-14-2017, 10:59 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't think the situation of white children in the US is simply the inverse of black. The US does not have a history of blacks enslaving whites, nor of blacks lynching whites, nor of blacks legally discriminating against whites in education, in the military, in housing, and in employment. The issue agitating so many Americans today is whether this past still marks the present in less violent, less visible ways. I can understand why some blacks might not like being told to "suck it up" if they complain of perceived racism. And I can see why they might be a little anxious if large numbers of whites indicate they voted for Trump because they are tired of "political correctness."

I'd be interested in hearing what you would tell your children about the color fault line if they were black. African-Americans are not all unified on these issues. I doubt that Allen West or Ben Carson would write op eds fearful of a "Trump effect" on minorities in America.  Would those children need to know anything about past racism? Would it be better if they don't learn much, or anything, about that past?

He’s prejudging people based on their race. Not people who have lynched people or discriminated against them for military service. He’s talking about the next door neighbor or a classmate or a kid on the baseball team.

[Vlad]

(11-14-2017, 10:59 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't think the situation of white children in the US is simply the inverse of black. The US does not have a history of blacks enslaving whites, nor of blacks lynching whites, nor of blacks legally discriminating against whites in education, in the military, in housing, and in employment. The issue agitating so many Americans today is whether this past still marks the present in less violent, less visible ways. I can understand why some blacks might not like being told to "suck it up" if they complain of perceived racism. And I can see why they might be a little anxious if large numbers of whites indicate they voted for Trump because they are tired of "political correctness."

I'd be interested in hearing what you would tell your children about the color fault line if they were black. African-Americans are not all unified on these issues. I doubt that Allen West or Ben Carson would write op eds fearful of a "Trump effect" on minorities in America.  Would those children need to know anything about past racism? Would it be better if they don't learn much, or anything, about that past?

Oh brother this again.

So who besides Sheila do you know that was a slave?

[Dill]

(11-14-2017, 10:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, he could have been doing a great many things; however, I can only go by his words and provide you with an example for which you asked.

I'll leave it to you to paint them with rationale and to try an infuse "coloreds" not getting served at restaurants about 60 years ago into the equation.  

He said this:

 . . . . these recent months have put in the starkest relief the contempt with which the country measures the value of racial minorities. America is transfixed on the opioid epidemic among white Americans (who often get hooked after being overprescribed painkillers — while studies show that doctors underprescribe pain medication for African-Americans). But when black lives were struck by addiction, we cordoned off minority communities with the police and threw away an entire generation of black and Hispanic men.

From which you got a claim that doctors were to "blame" for blacks NOT having a social problem they would not want.  If your interpretation were correct, then the author wants blacks to have their epidemic too, but doctors are discriminating against them. 

I was just suggesting he might have been making an altogether different point, regarding a difference in "America" responds to crises affecting mostly blacks.

So it's not as if I were "painting" his or your words with a rationale, and you were just telling folks what he said.

[Dill]

(11-14-2017, 11:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I’m not sure I have read a collection of more absurd notions in one post this side of a Dino Post.  

I’m not sure I have enough time or space in this forum to teach you how to not be a coward.   That was your father’s job.   If you don’t know the difference than I’m not sure what to say.   All I know is that you should t tell your child that people are out to get him and he should be afraid to the point he shouldn’t have any friends who are white.

First the writer is a coward who is not properly teaching his son.

For reasons that aren't clear, now I too am coward who was not properly taught by my father.  Perhaps for asking if someone like MLK was a coward?

Absurdity everywhere, but you cannot specify it.  While apparently arguing that fist-fighting will settle racial anxiety in children.

Who told a child that people are out to get him and that he should be afraid--to the point he shouldn't have any friends who are white?

People who risk life and health to take a stand on race issues while refusing to fight on the physical terms you deem appropriate are cowards? That is the message I am getting.

Looks like you have not really read the article you posted very carefully. You are just throwing out impressions with little care as to whether they match the author's statements.

[Dill]

(11-14-2017, 11:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: He’s prejudging people based on their race. Not people who have lynched people or discriminated against them for military service. He’s talking about the next door neighbor or a classmate or a kid on the baseball team.

Sure, he is talking about them. He is asking if they can be trusted. The white man who shovels the walk for a black neighbor, but doesn't see why voting for Trump is a big a deal. It was just "necessary" to achieve political goals.

Sounds like he trusted lots of white people before. No doubt he knows lots of white people have "liked" him.  Now something has happened to make him very unsure of trust.

And he makes the reasons plain. Obviously white people can "like" blacks. But friendship requires something more, like trust and putting your soul on the line. The willingness to overlook Trump's behavior suggests to him that the trust he assumed had developed since the years of segregation was never really there. Black people aren't really equals in the eyes of people who can set accept their public denigration in behaviors like birtherism.

He remembers a time when black children were taught to be careful what they say and how they behave around whites. And whites did not have to worry at all. Perhaps he is old enough to remember Emmet Till.  He remembers the minimal racism of his adolescence. Seemed like it was going away. 

And now here is having to explain to his child what all those people in Charlottesville were demonstrating about. Some of them, no doubt "good people." 

Lucie seems to think the child will be ok if he just learns how to fight.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-15-2017, 12:07 AM)Dill Wrote: Sure, he is talking about them. He is asking if they can be trusted. The white man who shovels the walk for a black neighbor, but doesn't see why voting for Trump is a big a deal. It was just "necessary" to achieve political goals.

Sounds like he trusted lots of white people before. No doubt he knows lots of white people have "liked" him.  Now something has happened to make him very unsure of trust.

And he makes the reasons plain. Obviously white people can "like" blacks. But friendship requires something more, like trust and putting your soul on the line. The willingness to overlook Trump's behavior suggests to him that the trust he assumed had developed since the years of segregation was never really there. Black people aren't really equals in the eyes of people who can set accept their public denigration in behaviors like birtherism.

He remembers a time when black children were taught to be careful what they say and how they behave around whites. And whites did not have to worry at all. Perhaps he is old enough to remember Emmet Till.  He remembers the minimal racism of his adolescence. Seemed like it was going away. 

And now here is having to explain to his child what all those people in Charlottesville were demonstrating about. Some of them, no doubt "good people." 

Lucie seems to think the child will be ok if he just learns how to fight.

Watching you tie yourself into knots defending blatant racism is endlessly entertaining.  Remember kids, it's ok to judge an entire ethnicity of people as long as you think you're justified in doing so.  I mean, you wouldn't have a problem with people viewing Middle Easterners as terrorists simply because they're responsible for the majority of terror attacks, right?  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-14-2017, 11:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I’m not sure I have read a collection of more absurd notions in one post this side of a Dino Post.

I’m not sure I have enough time or space in this forum to teach you how to not be a coward. That was your father’s job. If you don’t know the difference than I’m not sure what to say. All I know is that you should t tell your child that people are out to get him and he should be afraid to the point he shouldn’t have any friends who are white.

Oh, Jesus. Accusing others of cowardice again?

Here's your chance to teach us all how not to be a coward; what's your anniversary?

Mine is August 2nd.

[GMDino]

Are we still arguing about one person's opinion piece?

Because it seems like people are choosing a side based on...wait for it...their own opinion of the opinion.

We can all get along no matter the race, gender or sexual preference.  Some people won't.

Some people will actively try to get "them" out of "their" neighborhoods or demean an entire race based on the action of a small minority of them.

That will make some of "them" mad enough to treat the other side with the same standards.

And the cycle continues.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-15-2017, 08:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: Are we still arguing about one person's opinion piece?

Because it seems like people are choosing a side based on...wait for it...their own opinion of the opinion.

We can all get along no matter the race, gender or sexual preference.  Some people won't.

Some people will actively try to get "them" out of "their" neighborhoods or demean an entire race based on the action of a small minority of them.

That will make some of "them" mad enough to treat the other side with the same standards.

And the cycle continues.

The issue is that this is the type of article you would expect on salon. Not the NYT. Another reminder of how far this paper has fallen.

[GMDino]

(11-15-2017, 10:11 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The issue is that this is the type of article you would expect on salon.  Not the NYT.    Another reminder of how far this paper has fallen.

So you didn't have an issue with the content coming from an opinion piece but rather where the opinion piece was printed?

That might be an even worse reason and one that didn't get mentioned until now.

[Dill]

(11-15-2017, 12:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Watching you tie yourself into knots defending blatant racism is endlessly entertaining.  Remember kids, it's ok to judge an entire ethnicity of people as long as you think you're justified in doing so.  I mean, you wouldn't have a problem with people viewing Middle Easterners as terrorists simply because they're responsible for the majority of terror attacks, right?  

You and Vlad and Lucy love to react to "leftist" texts and then share your projections. Your impressions square with Vlad's which square with Lucy's and maybe Bfine's too, though he didn't finish reading.

Suddenly we have our own right wing echo chamber on a single thread. All ready to challenge the "blatant racism" of an author who judges an "entire ethnicity of people" by asserting that "we can stand beside one another against cheap attack and devaluation" and "live together and not simply beside one another."

Prediction: You will continue sharing your impressions of Yankah's text without ever demonstrating you can follow his argument. And you will continue sharing your impressions of my response without ever demonstrating you can follow that either.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-15-2017, 08:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: Are we still arguing about one person's opinion piece?

That is the point of the thread.  Sorry, you actually have to voice an opinion to participate in this thread, no news articles or gifs to help you here.  No wonder you're frustrated.

Quote:Because it seems like people are choosing a side based on...wait for it...their own opinion of the opinion.

In the exact same way we'd be opining on an op-ed written by a white supremacist or any other racist bigot.

Quote:We can all get along no matter the race, gender or sexual preference.  Some people won't.

So you disagree with the article in OP?  Finally an actual thought from you not copied from elsewhere.  Will wonders never cease!?!

Quote:Some people will actively try to get "them" out of "their" neighborhoods or demean an entire race based on the action of a small minority of them.

Yes, like the article in OP

Quote:That will make some of "them" mad enough to treat the other side with the same standards.

And the cycle continues.

Correct, the cycle will continue unless good people, who are not racists and bigots call out the racists and bigots regardless of their ethnicity.  

(11-15-2017, 12:11 PM)Dill Wrote: You and Vlad and Lucy love to react to "leftist" texts and then share your projections. Your impressions square with Vlad's which square with Lucy's and maybe Bfine's too, though he didn't finish reading.

Hahaha, I wonder if you know just how painfully transparent you are here.  This type of post is why, despite your attempts at erudition, you're largely considered a joke.

Quote:Suddenly we have our own right wing echo chamber on a single thread. All ready to challenge the "blatant racism" of an author who judges an "entire ethnicity of people" by asserting that "we can stand beside one another against cheap attack and devaluation" and "live together and not simply beside one another."

I believe people have articulated, quite well I might add, how this article is obviously racist.  Specific examples have been cited and dissected.  It's telling that rather than try to refute those argument you revert to claims of group think and "echo chamber".

Quote:Prediction: You will continue sharing your impressions of Yankah's text without ever demonstrating you can follow his argument. And you will continue sharing your impressions of my response without ever demonstrating you can follow that either.  

I'm sure not to your faux intellectual standards.  Arguments have been given.  Refute them with what passes for your intellect or kindly shut up with your condescending insults.  I'll reiterate, you're transparent and you'd be funny as well if you didn't actually believe all the tripe you spout.

[GMDino]

(11-15-2017, 12:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-15-2017, 12:39 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Surrender accepted.

[GMDino]

(11-15-2017, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Surrender accepted.

Best laugh I've had in awhile. A post filled with nothing but spin AND thinks he "won" something.

O...M...G...

That's adorable.

Thanks Joe!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-15-2017, 01:12 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Best laugh I've had in awhile.  A post filled with nothing but spin AND thinks he "won" something.

O...M...G...

That's adorable.

Thanks Joe!

Hmm, you'd think you'd be able to form an argument to easily destroy a post consisting of nothing but spin.  No one made a "nothing but spin" gif yet?  I guess there's no rule 34 for gifs, sad.

[GMDino]

(11-15-2017, 01:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hmm, you'd think you'd be able to form an argument to easily destroy a post consisting of nothing but spin.  No one made a "nothing but spin" gif yet?  I guess there's no rule 34 for gifs, sad.

Oh, Joe....

[Belsnickel]

(11-15-2017, 01:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hmm, you'd think you'd be able to form an argument to easily destroy a post consisting of nothing but spin.  No one made a "nothing but spin" gif yet?  I guess there's no rule 34 for gifs, sad.

Oh, I could think of a number of rule 34 gifs for "nothing but spin."

[Dill]

(11-15-2017, 01:17 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hmm, you'd think you'd be able to form an argument to easily destroy a post consisting of nothing but spin.  No one made a "nothing but spin" gif yet?  I guess there's no rule 34 for gifs, sad.

I have often done that. The reaction was more spin. 

Arguments take more work than spin, so after so many counter-spin arguments, the calculation becomes different.  There has to be some goal beyond simply unspining spin which will be respun in the next response, or it's not worthwhile.