O-Line Yesterday

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 06:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Winston was not in the game on the first drive when Heyward hit Dalton and then flushed him out of the pocket on the next play.

Is that the clip you posted?

If so then why were you talking about Dupree getting a sack on that play?

Three different plays.

[RoyleRedlegs]

Have you decided if you want to discuss Bodine fred? Or are you just going to run more circles around your crap posts?

Given this is about the 4th time, I've asked I take it as a hard no. I'll be going now. No more time to waste on you

[fredtoast]

So I had to go back and look at the game. I really didn't understand that you were posting three different plays.

Upon further review Heyward was lined up over Bodine when he hit Dalton. So I will admit I was wrong on that one.

On the blitz wher Dalton was flushed Bodine clears Heywrd out of the play. It is hard to see the number, but whoever Bodine was engaged on was taken to the ground.

The sack by Dupree was still a lame play by Dre.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So I had to go back and look at the game.  I really didn't understand that you were posting three different plays.

Upon further review Heyward was lined up over Bodine when he hit Dalton.  So I will admit I was wrong on that one.

On the blitz wher Dalton was flushed Bodine clears Heywrd out of the play.  It is hard to see the number, but whoever Bodine was engaged on was taken to the ground.

The sack by Dupree was still a lame play by Dre.

Bodine doesn't clear Heyward. Heyward beats him on the stunt and forces the rush. It's a basic stunt pickup based on pre-snap alignment. He dropped his head. Didn't see Heyward until it was too late. 

The sack by Dupree is nothing against Dre. Dre did everything right. Dalton scrambled. Dre didn't see him leave the pocket. Dupree is too athletic for 99% of RTs to recover on that. 
You accuse all my posts on the OL of being worthless, if you honestly think that was a lame play by Dre or in anyway actually his fault, well you have zero understanding of the OL.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 06:27 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Bodine doesn't clear Heyward. Heyward beats him on the stunt and forces the rush. It's a basic stunt pickup based on pre-snap alignment. He dropped his head. Didn't see Heyward until it was too late. 

Bodine pushed his man to the ground on that play.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 06:27 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The sack by Dupree is nothing against Dre. Dre did everything right. Dalton scrambled. Dre didn't see him leave the pocket. Dupree is too athletic for 99% of RTs to recover on that. 

An OT does not justt give up on a block when he can not see where his QB is.  That is not the way it works.  If Dre didn't know where Dalton was then he should have kept blocking Dupree.

[RoyleRedlegs]

After the fact:

Steelers show a 6 man front. Protection is heads up with the RB taking the free rusher. The NT slams down into the C/LG gap. 
The OLB rush wide. The deep LB blitzes and the LB on the line drops.


Heyward stunts around the crashing NT, around Bodine before Zeitler gets back over after checking his guy. Heyward gets past Bodine enough to disrupt the passing lane forcing Dalton to scramble. After this Bodine gets Heyward down, but too little too late. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 06:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: An OT does not justt give up on a block when he can not see where his QB is.  That is not the way it works.  If Dre didn't know where Dalton was then he should have kept blocking Dupree.

He didn't give up on it. Again, showing your lack of knowledge. 
Dupree ran himself wide and out of the play. Smith just glided him along and stayed in position. 

Everything about this is right by Smith.
What is wrong here? He's got Dupree boxed out of the pocket. 
Dalton scrambles right and out of the pocket. 
..

Look at the route Dupree is taking. As far as Andre is concerned, he poses no threat to the pocket. He doesn't know Dalton is moving that way and by the time he does, Dupree is gone. He's too athletic. 

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 06:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Everything about this is right by Smith.
What is wrong

No everything is not right by Smith.  If he could not see where his QB was then he at least needs to attempt to continue to block Dupree instead of just stopping and watching.

Notice how Dre is standing in the exact same place in both clips you posted?  That is because he gave up and watched instead of continuing to block.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 07:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No everything is not right by Smith.  If he could not see where his QB was then he at least needs to attempt to continue to block Dupree instead of just stopping and watching.

Notice how Dre is standing in the exact same place in both clips you posted?  That is because he gave up and watched instead of continuing to block.

False.
Again failing to understand the basic concepts of pass protection.

He's should NOT go out seeking to make contact with a player like Dupree. He's square to the defender. His hands are ready for an upward strike and his weight on the inside foot. 
That's text book. Dupree is NOT GETTING INTO THAT POCKET. That's Smith's job. 
He doesn't move because he doesn't need to. Being overly aggressive vs a rusher like Dupree is how you get out of position and get your QB walloped. Dupree ran himself out of the play. Dre shadowed him there. Andy started to move. Dupree reacts first by moving AWAY from Dre. 
Dupree runs away from the pocket. Smith has no chance catching Dupree. None. 

That's just Dupree's athleticism winning out. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

This is the burden of the OL. You can do everything the correct, by the book way....but still get blasted for "giving up a sack" when it's well beyond reasonable blocking times, QB leaves the pocket and the guy runs away from you.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 07:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote:  Smith has no chance catching Dupree. None. 

Because he does not even move.  

When you are pass blocking you read the defender.  When you have your back to the QB that is how you know which direction he is moving.  QBs often scramble out of the pocket.  A blocker can't just stand flatfooted and let a defender move wherever he wants to when the QB leaves the pocket because many times a QB continues to scramble to find a receiver instead of taking off running.

Dre did not even try.  His feet are planted in one spot and he doesn't even move.  

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 07:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because he does not even move.  

When you are pass blocking you read the defender.  When you have your back to the QB that is how you know which direction he is moving.  QBs often scramble out of the pocket.  A blocker can't just stand flatfooted and let a defender move wherever he wants to when the QB leaves the pocket because many times a QB continues to scramble to find a receiver instead of taking off running.

Dre did not even try.  His feet are planted in one spot and he doesn't even move.  

Sigh.
This is useless. You accuse me of being biased but holy shit dude. At least I back mine up. 

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 07:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Sigh.
This is useless. You accuse me of being biased but holy shit dude. At least I back mine up. 

I back mine up also.

No O-line coach would tell Dre to stand flat footed and not move in that situation.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 07:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I back mine up also.

No O-line coach would tell Dre to stand flat footed and not move in that situation.

Wasn't flatfooted. Didn't need to move.
But thanks for playing. 

[PDub80]

This was the kind of game where most things get thrown out the window. There isn't going to be a pretty win, people are going to get hurt, and the other guys want it ALMOST as bad (if it was more, they would have won). The Steelers will make plays. The Bengals will make plays. It came down to will. When the will was needed, the Bengals found it to protect enough to score what they needed.

Blood bath, old school NFL game. Looking back at it, I don't think the Patriots can go into a place like that and win a nasty game like what was played yesterday. I just don't. I don't think the Broncos can, either. Not on the road and not as viscous as that. I hope the Bengals look at it the same way and keep it nasty!

[SunsetBengal]

(11-02-2015, 07:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I back mine up also.

No O-line coach would tell Dre to stand flat footed and not move in that situation.

Speaking of OL coaches, I would have thought that PA would have lobbied harder to HJ to go unbalanced.  Fisher is not only a developing T, but he was a former TE, who better to put in the role of 6th OL?

Particularly after it became evident that Bodine was in over his head.  Going unbalanced would have allowed Zeitler to double down with Bodine, and Andre to pinch in with outside help from Fisher.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-02-2015, 05:44 PM)Wyche Wrote: Meh....shouldn't have much to do with Gio only seeing one touch.  Hue is cetainly no idiot.....but yesterday wasn't one of his better efforts.  It happens, no one is perfect.

I don't think that it was by design, for Gio to only have one touch.  I seem to remember a nice gain, on a swing pass, to the Left flats, that was called back, due to a holding penalty.  It just turned into one of those brutal kind of games, and finesse was thrown out the window.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2015, 07:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Wasn't flatfooted. Didn't need to move.
But thanks for playing. 

You are wrong.  No O-line coach would have told Dre to just stand there and not move when the defender was obviously making a move to get the QB.

Coach Redlegs, "Yep.  Just stand there.  No need for you to move or try and block anyone just because the QB starts to scramble.  If the pass rusher suddenly moves to your left he is probably just going to get a drink of water."

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-02-2015, 08:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are wrong.  No O-line coach would have told Dre to just stand there and not move when the defender was obviously making a move to get the QB.

Coach Redlegs, "Yep.  Just stand there.  No need for you to move or try and block anyone just because the QB starts to scramble.  If the pass rusher suddenly moves to your left he is probably just going to get a drink of water."

Nice hyperbole and strawman fred. Good job. You're a winner buddy.

Coach fred: "Hey go try and attack a much better athlete than you in space when he has the advantage of seeing the ball carrier behind you. Good luck, you're on your own"

Andre did it right. You are completely illiterate on the nuance of the block and disregarding the context of the play, not surprising since for a solid hour you couldn't differentiate between that play and 2 others.