Obama: Calling ISIL 'Islamic extremists' would accomplish nothing

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-15-2016, 06:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Muslims not speaking out and not pushing for reformation is why there is A negative opinion about Islam.  When a christian does something dumb and violent Christians are right there to condemn them.   Ofc they have had a reformation.  

I think you and I agree on this point.  In fact, I posted more or less the same thing prior to Pat's post, but probably not in so much detail. Maybe I wouldn't go so far as calling for a reformation, but atleast a global callout of the nutcases who have hijacked Islam.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-15-2016, 06:21 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I think you and I agree on this point.  In fact, I posted more or less the same thing prior to Pat's post, but probably not in so much detail.  Maybe I wouldn't go so far as calling for a reformation, but atleast a global callout of the nutcases who have hijacked Islam.

Glad we could find some common ground.  

I believe a Global call out is the precursor to a reformation.  That religion is living in the real old days.   

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-15-2016, 07:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Glad we could find some common ground.  

I believe a Global call out is the precursor to a reformation.  That religion is living in the real old days.   

Enough with the reformation stuff.  Radical Islamic groups are the reformation.  You think of a reformation as becoming more New Testament.  They are going more Old Testament.  If anything, you want their reformation to fail.

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-15-2016, 08:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Enough with the reformation stuff.  Radical Islamic groups are the reformation.  You think of a reformation as becoming more New Testament.  They are going more Old Testament.  If anything, you want their reformation to fail.

Yes, a reformation is simply unrealistic and infeasible. There is no central moral authority in terms of organization in Islam. Therefore, who will reform whom? The best that we can hope for would be some covert operation to rail against Wahhabism and to undo its actions and effects in places that are far away from its root, Saudi Arabia. However, with our government so tightly bound with the Saudi monarchy, this is simply not achievable at the moment, IMO.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-15-2016, 08:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Enough with the reformation stuff.  Radical Islamic groups are the reformation.  You think of a reformation as becoming more New Testament.  They are going more Old Testament.  If anything, you want their reformation to fail.

They have always been more Old Testament.  That's the problem.   Even the good Muslims believe all the dark stuff.    Sharia law, genitle mutiliation, child rape, etc. 

[StLucieBengal]

(06-15-2016, 08:42 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Yes, a reformation is simply unrealistic and infeasible.  There is no central moral authority in terms of organization in Islam.  Therefore, who will reform whom?  The best that we can hope for would be some covert operation to rail against Wahhabism and to undo its actions and effects in places that are far away from its root, Saudi Arabia.  However, with our government so tightly bound with the Saudi monarchy, this is simply not achievable at the moment, IMO.

The central moral authority needs to be the uprise of moderate Islam.   These so called good Muslims need to stand for something.... The longer they stay seated the more they just become complicit.     

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-16-2016, 12:47 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They have always been more Old Testament.  That's the problem.   Even the good Muslims believe all the dark stuff.    Sharia law, genitle mutiliation, child rape, etc. 

Too many broad generalizations and inaccuracies thrown out here. Giving you the benefit of doubt with the assumption that you made some of these statements in good faith in interest of the truth, I will say this: Genital mutilation is a cultural phenomenon that is part of the culture in certain parts of Africa, and the Middle East and existed prior to these populations converting to their religion. This includes Muslims, Christians and Jews. I seriously doubt you will find many Muslims, let alone "good" ones who believe in child rape. If you want to discuss their penchant for holding Mohammed in high esteem even in the midst of the knowledge that he married a nine year old, that is a fair but different discussion. However, this would be like saying Christians are ok with child rape, since many states in the U.S allow consent for marriage under the age of 18, or because some Catholic priests were pedophiles. Obviously this would be a ridiculous statement. As for sharia Law, I'm neither a scholar, nor a fan of Islam, but sharia in my opinion is more complex than what it is generalized to be. This in particular, would require discussion from someone who is much more well versed in the nuances of sharia law, preferably a scholar on Islam. As far as I understand different populations find different aspects of sharia to be pertinent to them, but, as I said, I profess no expertise on sharia.

(06-16-2016, 12:49 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The central moral authority needs to be the uprise of moderate Islam.   These so called good Muslims need to stand for something.... The longer they stay seated the more they just become complicit.     

This is at best a fantasy. First of all, a small message board here has trouble agreeing on most topics, yet we want a group of more than a billion (even assuming we only require a majority, the number shrinks to let's say 500 million) to not only unify, but start an uprising? Some of these populations can't even protest their own governments, but we want them to somehow, unify with populations in other countries and start an uprising? Over a perceived complicity? I say perceived because, there is no consensus on this message board, let alone a global one, that muslims in general are complicit because nutcases decided to use "Islam" for political gain. Just like catholic priests' atrocities don't make christians in general complicit, so are muslims in general not complicit for what a few mentally deranged individuals do in the name of a religion.
If you think this uprising is feasible, then I suggest that Americans write to their Congressmen to start decrying our relationship with the Saudis explicitly for the world to hear, and to denounce the Wahhabi influence on all these terrorist activities. But we know that this is neither feasible nor practical for Americans to do, until we reach energy independence. If we can take this first step, then, maybe I can believe that this uprising could even approach feasibility.

[jmccracky]

Jews have always been "Old Testament".

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-16-2016, 07:35 PM)CharvelPlaya Wrote: Jews have always been "Old Testament".

Doesn't that mean it is okay to beat their slave to death as long as the slave dies after the 3rd day?

[GMDino]

(06-16-2016, 07:35 PM)CharvelPlaya Wrote: Jews have always been "Old Testament".

I was waiting for that!  

[BigPapaKain]

(06-17-2016, 09:29 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Doesn't that mean it is okay to beat their slave to death as long as the slave dies after the 3rd day?

Among other things (marrying their wife's sister if their a widower, stoning women who learn things other than cooking, cleaning, and birthing, and oh so much rape).

[SunsetBengal]

..

http://powderedwigsociety.com/hitlerys-saudi-cash/#

Not just Obama, Hitlary has her coffers filled with Saudi money..

[BigPapaKain]

(06-17-2016, 08:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: ..

http://powderedwigsociety.com/hitlerys-saudi-cash/#

Not just Obama, Hitlary has her coffers filled with Saudi money..

Don't they all.

[jmccracky]

(06-17-2016, 09:29 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Doesn't that mean it is okay to beat their slave to death as long as the slave dies after the 3rd day?

Chabad.org bruh.

[tigerseye]

Read where the FBI wants to redact the mass murderers statements about ISIS.

So now we are going to start editing what was said so it matches up better with what the powers that be want out there.

The only politicing going on should be centered around Sharia (evil)/ Ratical Islam (evil)/ ISIS (evil).

Did I miss something here, didn't 49 people just get executed or was that make believe?

Are they afraid to offend someone? If anything this is a good opportunity to show everyone that this is what these people are all about and that we don't want anything to do with any of it here in the USA.

God Bless the USA.

and

Who Dey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StLucieBengal]

(06-16-2016, 02:15 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Too many broad generalizations and inaccuracies thrown out here.  Giving you the benefit of doubt with the assumption that you made some of these statements in good faith in interest of the truth, I will say this:  Genital mutilation is a cultural phenomenon that is part of the culture in certain parts of Africa, and the Middle East and existed prior to these populations converting to their religion.  This includes Muslims, Christians and Jews. I seriously doubt you will find many Muslims, let alone "good" ones who believe in child rape.  If you want to discuss their penchant for holding Mohammed in high esteem even in the midst of the knowledge that he married a nine year old, that is a fair but different discussion.  However, this would be like saying Christians are ok with child rape, since many states in the U.S allow consent for marriage under the age of 18, or because some Catholic priests were pedophiles.  Obviously this would be a ridiculous statement.  As for sharia Law, I'm neither a scholar, nor a fan of Islam, but sharia in my opinion is more complex than what it is generalized to be.  This in particular, would require discussion from someone who is much more well versed in the nuances of sharia law, preferably a scholar on Islam.  As far as I understand different populations find different aspects of sharia to be pertinent to them, but, as I said, I profess no expertise on sharia.

This is at best a fantasy.  First of all, a small message board here has trouble agreeing on most topics, yet we want a group of more than a billion (even assuming we only require a majority, the number shrinks to let's say 500 million) to not only unify, but start an uprising?  Some of these populations can't even protest their own governments, but we want them to somehow, unify with populations in other countries and start an uprising?  Over a perceived complicity?  I say perceived because, there is no consensus on this message board, let alone a global one, that muslims in general are complicit because nutcases decided to use "Islam" for political gain.  Just like catholic priests' atrocities don't make christians in general complicit, so are muslims in general not complicit for what a few mentally deranged individuals do in the name of a religion.  
If you think this uprising is feasible, then I suggest that Americans write to their Congressmen to start decrying our relationship with the Saudis explicitly for the world to hear, and to denounce the Wahhabi influence on all these terrorist activities.  But we know that this is neither feasible nor practical for Americans to do, until we reach energy independence.  If we can take this first step, then, maybe I can believe that this uprising could even approach feasibility.

They do support child rape if they promote marrying children to adults.   Let's also not forget the countless stories in Egypt, Great Britain, etc where they raped children 

The largest threat to the world right now is Islam.   Radical Islam is actually killing people.... And moderate Islam is a human rights disaster.   

If they don't have a reformation then the only options are live with their brutality and violence  or kill them all.   These are crimes against humanity they are committing and can not go unchecked.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-20-2016, 03:55 PM)tigerseye Wrote: Read where the FBI wants to redact the mass murderers statements about ISIS.

So now we are going to start editing what was said so it matches up better with what the powers that be want out there.

The only politicing going on should be centered around Sharia (evil)/ Ratical Islam (evil)/ ISIS (evil).

Did I miss something here, didn't 49 people just get executed or was that make believe?

Are they afraid to offend someone? If anything this is a good opportunity to show everyone that this is what these people are all about and that we don't want anything to do with any of it here in the USA.

God Bless the USA.

and

Who Dey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you see what they did to the 911 calls?  

The Obama administration are a bunch morons.  

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-20-2016, 04:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They do support child rape if they promote marrying children to adults.   Let's also not forget the countless stories in Egypt, Great Britain, etc where they raped children 

The largest threat to the world right now is Islam.   Radical Islam is actually killing people.... And moderate Islam is a human rights disaster.   

If they don't have a reformation then the only options are live with their brutality and violence  or kill them all.   These are crimes against humanity they are committing and can not go unchecked.

If a small culture within a religion allows children to marry adults, you cannot ascribe it to the whole religion.  This was addressed in my previous post (I wouldn't hold all Christians responsible for a small percentage of their population.  I also wouldn't say that the U.S. legal system in many states supports rape, because they "promote" marrying children (under the age of 18 to adults).  This is the kind of broad brush generalization that is not particularly useful.  The part of "Islam" or a radical perversion of it that is hijacked by some organizations (ISIS, Al Qaeda etc.) is being dealt with.  Nobody in the coalition against ISIS has decided to "live with their brutality", the choice has already been made to eradicate them.  None of it is going unchecked.  

Moderate Islam is not the issue.  The issue was already addressed in my previous post.  The Wahhabi ideology and its export to different parts of the world.  There are smaller groups in different parts of the world that are also violent, but, Wahhabism is the significant threat.  And since it's funding comes from Saudi Arabia, I've already discussed what Americans would have to do about this (and none of it is feasible at the moment).

[Nebuchadnezzar]

And calling ISIS the Junior Varsity Team really took the wind of their sails and they were defeated within a matter of...wait.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-20-2016, 08:09 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: If a small culture within a religion allows children to marry adults, you cannot ascribe it to the whole religion.  This was addressed in my previous post (I wouldn't hold all Christians responsible for a small percentage of their population.  I also wouldn't say that the U.S. legal system in many states supports rape, because they "promote" marrying children (under the age of 18 to adults).  This is the kind of broad brush generalization that is not particularly useful.  The part of "Islam" or a radical perversion of it that is hijacked by some organizations (ISIS, Al Qaeda etc.) is being dealt with.  Nobody in the coalition against ISIS has decided to "live with their brutality", the choice has already been made to eradicate them.  None of it is going unchecked.  

Moderate Islam is not the issue.  The issue was already addressed in my previous post.  The Wahhabi ideology and its export to different parts of the world.  There are smaller groups in different parts of the world that are also violent, but, Wahhabism is the significant threat.  And since it's funding comes from Saudi Arabia, I've already discussed what Americans would have to do about this (and none of it is feasible at the moment).

Look at all the human rights violations by moderate Islam.     

http://louderwithcrowder.com/moderate-muslims-in-their-own-words-and-laws/#.V2iEjvT3bCQ