Obama colluded with Putin to release Lebanese terrorist that targeted Americans

[Dill]

(12-18-2017, 05:35 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is why we should be sealing off the whole lot of them.  I’m tired of their shenanigans

Seal off the world? or whom? 

Except our good friend Russia?

[StLucieBengal]

(12-18-2017, 05:47 PM)Dill Wrote: Seal off the world? or whom? 

Except our good friend Russia?

I do not want to seal off the world. Just the areas where it’s overrun with terrorism and disregard for the law.

I would seal off several parts of the Middle East and Africa until they can sort themselves out.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-18-2017, 05:46 PM)Dill Wrote: Obama = Trump then?

Trump isn’t a coward. He can at least say what’s on his mind withou vetting it through numerous polling.

[BmorePat87]

When you're the sitting President, I believe we call that diplomacy.

[Dill]

(12-18-2017, 05:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. Yes he killed osama but agonized for weeks over it when he found out where he was......  yet another cowardly action.... he doesn’t get kudos for finally coming to his senses.    

2.  I don’t set my opinions based off what Hannity says or thinks.   Honestly I don’t even watch him or listen to his radio show.  It’s funny you Post hat like it is some sort of notch in your corner to support your position lol

3. When I go to Russia I don’t feel threatened.   I also dont feel threatened by people in a country that is made up the same as ours.   We have more In common than anyone else.     Not sure what the Islam jab is about....  that has zero to do with Russia, they also have Muslims.   Just like us.  

4. Yes we won a war with Germany but have allowed them to gain power back via the EU by manipulating the euro currency to favor themselves while making Europe poor.   They are one of the biggest threats to Europe moving forward.  The other being unchecked Muslim migration.  

5. Iran now has the money to fund terrorism for the next decade while they wait out these nuke sanctions and then they can have at it.    Thanks obama.  

6. China is a threat and we will need Russia to face down China and German led EU.    Some of the EU is fracturing because they see the Germans coming....

Thanks for the answers, Lucy. And for answering systematically.

1.  By "agonized" you may mean that Obama considered the very considerable risks before deciding when to go in. There was no hesitation about killing bin Laden.  But thinking before acting does not make one cowardly, any more than acting without thinking makes one brave.  Kudos or not, he was not "supporting" Islamic terrorism when he killed bin Laden--or the thousands of like-minded Islamists afterwards.

2. Hannity is an opinion-shaper on the far right and defends Trump with your talking points. For all I know, Hannity might be listening to you, or you are both following a similar logic based upon similar sources.

3. I don't feel threatened when I go to Germany. And I don't feel threatened by their government when I am in the US. I do, however, feel threatened by the Russian government. I don't know what you mean when you say Russia is a country "made up the same as ours," or that we have more in common with them than anyone else.  Is the US a Plutocracy too? One which has lost its free press? You might be right, but that would hardly be comforting, and it would hardly make Russia less of a danger than Germany. We have an autocratic leader now too. But he is hemmed in by Congress and the Courts in a way that Putin is not. So far, journalists critical of Trump have not been murdered. He cannot use the FBI, courts, and DJ to lock up politic opponents. Yet. There are maybe some important differences still between our countries.

Regarding the Islam jab, you constantly characterize Muslim nations as a threat, even friendly ones, while ignoring the threat posed by authoritarian "friends" that have attacked us. So the "jab" is a jab at what I take to be a poor criterion for guiding foreign policy.

4. Europe is not "poor." (Russia is, comparatively, because of its corruption.) And we "allowed" Germany to gain power back because the US is a liberal democracy that, as a matter of principle, does not make war for booty, as the Nazis and Japanese did.  Rather than keep them conquered enemies, a very expensive proposition, the US gave them back their freedom. In return we now have a strong, liberal democratic ally.  Is there "unchecked" Muslim migration to Europe?  I was not aware of that.

5. Iran already had the money to "fund terrorism" if that were a goal. In January of 2013, our CIA estimated Iran's break out time was 8-12 weeks. If today, four years later, they decided they wanted a Nuke, break out time would be a year at minimum. But it appears they never wanted one very badly. Getting plugged back into the world market and remaining there is much more important to their goals. And lifting the sanctions has greatly strengthened the moderates in Iran and weakened their right wing.   Now critics of the Treaty complain they could get a Nuke in 10 years, when Iran may be a more moderate country. Thanks Obama.

6. I agree with you that China is a threat, or a potential one, not actual, as Russia currently is. But you are thinking that Russia, the country which attacked our election, might help us manage China, which did not attack our election? No doubt they would love to "work with us" to face down a country which checks their military and our allies in Western Europe who check their economy.  But getting that result would require a "useful idiot" leading the US and an effective disinformation campaign aimed at the US electorate.

[Dill]

(12-18-2017, 06:59 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Trump isn’t a coward.   He can at least say what’s on his mind withou vetting it through numerous polling.

I'm pretty sure Trump follows Fox polling very closely.

He says what is on his mind in the afternoon without considering whether it contradicts what he said that morning. And he also says it without any care as to whether what's on his mind has any factual basis.  I don't know why that makes him brave or a good leader.

Why can't Trump call out Russia?  Obama did.  Trump attacks women and the disabled, and "out groups"--I don't see the bravery in that.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-18-2017, 07:38 PM)Dill Wrote: I'm pretty sure Trump follows Fox polling very closely.

He says what is on his mind in the afternoon without considering whether it contradicts what he said that morning. And he also says it without any care as to whether what's on his mind has any factual basis.  I don't know why that makes him brave or a good leader.

Why can't Trump call out Russia?  Obama did.  Trump attacks women and the disabled, and "out groups"--I don't see the bravery in that.

If you think trump polls and tests out what he says before he says it then you really have lost the plot.

Trump did call out Russia. Obama never called out Islam and could never bring himself to even mention Islamic terrorism. It was always work place violence, or some sort of cowardly bs.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-18-2017, 07:32 PM)Dill Wrote: Thanks for the answers, Lucy. And for answering systematically.

1.  By "agonized" you may mean that Obama considered the very considerable risks before deciding when to go in. There was no hesitation about killing bin Laden.  But thinking before acting does not make one cowardly, any more than acting without thinking makes one brave.  Kudos or not, he was not "supporting" Islamic terrorism when he killed bin Laden--or the thousands of like-minded Islamists afterwards.

2. Hannity is an opinion-shaper on the far right and defends Trump with your talking points. For all I know, Hannity might be listening to you, or you are both following a similar logic based upon similar sources.

3. I don't feel threatened when I go to Germany. And I don't feel threatened by their government when I am in the US. I do, however, feel threatened by the Russian government. I don't know what you mean when you say Russia is a country "made up the same as ours," or that we have more in common with them than anyone else.  Is the US a Plutocracy too? One which has lost its free press? You might be right, but that would hardly be comforting, and it would hardly make Russia less of a danger than Germany. We have an autocratic leader now too. But he is hemmed in by Congress and the Courts in a way that Putin is not. So far, journalists critical of Trump have not been murdered. He cannot use the FBI, courts, and DJ to lock up politic opponents. Yet. There are maybe some important differences still between our countries.

Regarding the Islam jab, you constantly characterize Muslim nations as a threat, even friendly ones, while ignoring the threat posed by authoritarian "friends" that have attacked us. So the "jab" is a jab at what I take to be a poor criterion for guiding foreign policy.

4. Europe is not "poor." (Russia is, comparatively, because of its corruption.) And we "allowed" Germany to gain power back because the US is a liberal democracy that, as a matter of principle, does not make war for booty, as the Nazis and Japanese did.  Rather than keep them conquered enemies, a very expensive proposition, the US gave them back their freedom. In return we now have a strong, liberal democratic ally.  Is there "unchecked" Muslim migration to Europe?  I was not aware of that.

5. Iran already had the money to "fund terrorism" if that were a goal. In January of 2013, our CIA estimated Iran's break out time was 8-12 weeks. If today, four years later, they decided they wanted a Nuke, break out time would be a year at minimum. But it appears they never wanted one very badly. Getting plugged back into the world market and remaining there is much more important to their goals. And lifting the sanctions has greatly strengthened the moderates in Iran and weakened their right wing.   Now critics of the Treaty complain they could get a Nuke in 10 years, when Iran may be a more moderate country. Thanks Obama.

6. I agree with you that China is a threat, or a potential one, not actual, as Russia currently is. But you are thinking that Russia, the country which attacked our election, might help us manage China, which did not attack our election? No doubt they would love to "work with us" to face down a country which checks their military and our allies in Western Europe who check their economy.  But getting that result would require a "useful idiot" leading the US and an effective disinformation campaign aimed at the US electorate.

1. Yeah considered the risks for weeks...... what exactly were the oaks? Making his Islamic buddies mad for killing their Jihad general.

2. I will let you stick to Hannity. As I said I am not a viewer.

3. You should go to Russia. The people are exactly the same as here.... I have been to both Germany and Russia and feel less hassled in Russia. Outside of border security ofc. Which shouldn’t be a problem if we had better relations. Germany has more violence of late anyway.... until they sort out their Muslim migrant problem and actually form a functioning coalition government they are really a place we should be avoid .

4. Why don’t you ask Greece what Germany did to them and he rest of the mediterrainian nations could chime in as well. The EU and Germany have ensured those countries were poor.

5. Yes Iran has money to find terror.... obama just game them pallets more of cash..... thanks for clearing that up.

6. Russia works with China because it doesn’t want to fight a two front war. They would turn on China if we had their backs on he west. Russia is the key to stopping China.

[Benton]

(12-18-2017, 05:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Russia works with them because they have no other option.

How do you figure I want to ally with 2/3 of the worlds enemies?

For the first sentence, if you have to team up with Magneto, Dr. Doom and the Green Goblin... you're probably a villain. You're not going to get a lot of sympathy just because they're the only ones who would let you sit on their buddy bench. Instead, change your role.

For the second sentence, you listed three countries, two of which are allies with Russia. You're encouraging us to ally with Russia, which would move us into alignment with Iran and China, which you state were world enemies. So, 2-out-of-3 is 2/3rds.

[*Nately120*]

(12-18-2017, 06:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I would seal off several parts of the Middle East and Africa until they can sort themselves out.

Didn't that plan sort of go out the window when we started preemptive striking, invading, and occupying?

[GMDino]

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. Yeah considered the risks for weeks......  what exactly were the oaks?   Making his Islamic buddies mad for killing their Jihad general.  

Just spit-balling here: Maybe he was weighing the risk to OUR people he would be sending in on the mission?

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 2. I will let you stick to Hannity.  As I said I am not a viewer.  

Fewer and fewer people are.

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 3. You should go to Russia.  The people are exactly the same as here....

Mostly white?

 

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have been to both Germany and Russia and feel less hassled in Russia.   Outside of border security ofc.   Which shouldn’t be a problem if we had better relations.

Well you wife is Russian. Probably easier to mix in.

   

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Germany has more violence of late anyway....   until they sort out their Muslim migrant problem and actually form a functioning coalition government they are really a place we should be avoid .  

Does that have anything to do with having more freedom than in Russia? A strong police state would probably clamp down on violence.

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 4.  Why don’t you ask Greece what Germany did to them and he rest of the mediterrainian nations could chime in as well.   The EU and Germany have ensured those countries were poor.  

Germany is part of the EU. That answer makes no sense.

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 5. Yes Iran has money to find terror.... obama just game them pallets more of cash.....   thanks for clearing that up.  

I just wonder how the country stayed afloat until then...poor guys must have been selling sand to fund the place until that sweet, sweet Obama money came in.

Wonder if they got an Obama phone too?

(12-18-2017, 10:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 6. Russia works with China because it doesn’t want to fight a two front war.    They would turn on China if we had their backs on he west.  Russia is the key to stopping China.

Stopping China from what?

Also they have been allies a long time. You're thinking might be a stretch here to try and fit into a narrative that doesn't exist.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-19-2017, 12:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Didn't that plan sort of go out the window when we started preemptive striking, invading, and occupying?

That’s what progressives do. I would leave the areas and seal them off.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-18-2017, 11:56 PM)Benton Wrote: For the first sentence, if you have to team up with Magneto, Dr. Doom and the Green Goblin... you're probably a villain. You're not going to get a lot of sympathy just because they're the only ones who would let you sit on their buddy bench. Instead, change your role.

For the second sentence, you listed three countries, two of which are allies with Russia. You're encouraging us to ally with Russia, which would move us into alignment with Iran and China, which you state were world enemies. So, 2-out-of-3 is 2/3rds.

I don’t know super heroes so I can’t comment on all that stuff.

We could pull Russia out of ally with China and Iran. Being an ally with us outweighs what they have now. Russia doesn’t have a reason to walk away from China and Iran. Yet

[Benton]

(12-19-2017, 11:56 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don’t know super heroes so I can’t comment on all that stuff.  

We could pull Russia out of ally with China and Iran.   Being an ally with us outweighs what they have now.    Russia doesn’t have a reason to walk away from China and Iran. Yet

Magneto is probably the greatest, most layered character of all time. You should check him out. Way beyond super hero/super villain stuff. 

As far as seducing Russia to leave China and Iran, I don't see how. If their interests were no longer parallel, China would be a  significant threat to Russia if for no other reason than logistics. And Iran — much like our odd backing of Israel and the Saudis both — gives them access to the Middle East both physically and in terms of information.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-19-2017, 12:45 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just spit-balling here: Maybe he was weighing the risk to OUR people he would be sending in on the mission?


Fewer and fewer people are.


Mostly white?

 
Well you wife is Russian. Probably easier to mix in.

   
Does that have anything to do with having more freedom than in Russia? A strong police state would probably clamp down on violence.


Germany is part of the EU. That answer makes no sense.


I just wonder how the country stayed afloat until then...poor guys must have been selling sand to fund the place until that sweet, sweet Obama money came in.

Wonder if they got an Obama phone too?


Stopping China from what?

Also they have been allies a long time. You're thinking might be a stretch here to try and fit into a narrative that doesn't exist.

1. No he wasn’t. The seals are bad mofo’s. It was him just being a coward which is obama’s MO

2. He is still crushing everyone in the ratings.

3. I’m glad I don’t live in your world where everything is based off skin color.

4. My wife is not Russian. And whether we are together or it’s just me I have zero problems.

5. Where did I say anything about more freedom than Russia or any country? I said there is more shenanagians with Muslim migrants Cairo g problems. This has zero to do with a “police state”. The reason a place like Belarus or Russia doesn’t have this stuff is because they just don’t let any Tom Dick or harry into the country. This is what germany should be doug. You can have safety and still have a normal police. Just toughen up the border.

6. Germany lent Greece money and then forced them into repayment schedule that kept them in the euro. It was obvious they would have been better to leave the euro and go back to their currency. The Germans didn’t allow this.

7. Obama could have changed Iran back to what it once was.... but he decided to support he oppressive regime over the rebels. Why did he do this???? Because he wanted the Middle East to swing towards the Muslims and had they lost Iran the gains From. The arbab spring would have been lessened. He carried he muslims water.

8. China has been responsible for the spread of communism throughout Asia. They keep North Korea alive. We should have let the Japanese go into china. FDR was trying to protect his families investments.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-19-2017, 12:10 PM)Benton Wrote: Magneto is probably the greatest, most layered character of all time. You should check him out. Way beyond super hero/super villain stuff. 

As far as seducing Russia to leave China and Iran, I don't see how. If their interests were no longer parallel, China would be a  significant threat to Russia if for no other reason than logistics. And Iran — much like our odd backing of Israel and the Saudis both — gives them access to the Middle East both physically and in terms of information.

Thanks will look that stuff up.

Russia ally’s with China to protect them on one side given the threat from the west. If they were to ally with us they would have no need to need china for the defense of their country. Once their western border was safe they could get tougher on China and we could work together to tone that region down. Same with the ME.

[GMDino]

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 1. No he wasn’t.  The seals are bad mofo’s.   It was him just being a coward which is obama’s MO

And they are human.  And he was in charge of doing all he could to keep them alive when deciding on missions.

Maybe a course in military strategy would help you.

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 2. He is still crushing everyone in the ratings.  

Good for him!  

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 3. I’m glad I don’t live in your world where everything is based off skin color.  

Well, I did add the " " But maybe you could elaborate on how it is "just like here"? 

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 4. My wife is not Russian.   And whether we are together or it’s just me I have zero problems.  

She's not from that general area?  My mistake I guess.

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 5. Where did I say anything about more freedom than Russia or any country?   I said there is more shenanagians with Muslim migrants Cairo g problems.   This has zero to do with a “police state”.  The reason a place like Belarus or Russia doesn’t have this stuff is because they just don’t let any Tom Dick or harry into the country.    This is what germany should be doug.    You can have safety and still have a normal police.   Just toughen up the border.  

Well you didn't...but they are.

And their immigration policy is part of that.

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 6. Germany lent Greece money and then forced them into repayment schedule that kept them in the euro.   It was obvious they would have been better to leave the euro and go back to their currency.  The Germans didn’t allow this.

Have you thought of running for office somewhere in Europe? It seems you have a better grasp of what should do than they do.    

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 7.  Obama could have changed Iran back to what it once was....  but he decided to support he oppressive regime over the rebels.   Why did he do this????   Because he wanted the Middle East to swing towards the Muslims and had they lost Iran the gains From. The arbab spring would have been lessened.       He carried he muslims water.  

What is was wehn? Pre-1979?

Perhaps, again just spit-balling, perhaps regime change isn't what Obama wanted to do. 

(12-19-2017, 12:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: 8. China has been responsible for the spread of communism throughout Asia.   They keep North Korea alive.  We should have let the Japanese go into china.  FDR was trying to protect his families investments.

This is probably the most conspiracy laden post outside of the ACTUAL conspiracy theory post.

It's just fascinating to see such things spun as absolute truth and how that then reinforces the conspiracies.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-19-2017, 12:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: And they are human.  And he was in charge of doing all he could to keep them alive when deciding on missions.

Maybe a course in military strategy would help you.


Good for him!  


Well, I did add the " " But maybe you could elaborate on how it is "just like here"? 


She's not from that general area?  My mistake I guess.


Well you didn't...but they are.

And their immigration policy is part of that.


Have you thought of running for office somewhere in Europe? It seems you have a better grasp of what should do than they do.    


What is was wehn? Pre-1979?

Perhaps, again just spit-balling, perhaps regime change isn't what Obama wanted to do. 


This is probably the most conspiracy laden post outside of the ACTUAL conspiracy theory post.

It's just fascinating to see such things spun as absolute truth and how that then reinforces the conspiracies.

Most of this is just typical Dino nonsensical ramblings.

I am going to address the Russian border policy. It’s possibke to have a tough border policy and still have all the freedoms we enjoy. Which is exactly what we need here.

Europe is getting crushed by the stampede of third world migrants flooding into their nations creating havoc. These people can’t help themselves but to rape their way across Europe. They aren’t raping their way across Russia because they are stopped at the border.

[Benton]

(12-19-2017, 12:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Thanks will look that stuff up.  

Russia ally’s with China to protect them on one side given the threat from the west.   If they were to ally with us they would have no need to need china for the defense of their country.    Once their western border was safe they could get tougher on China and we could work together to tone that region down.    Same with the ME.

China occupies a good chunk of their south side. Outside of people on the western side not wanting to fight Russia and China, not sure how it impacts their western front. But even with China out of the picture, most countries know you can't fight Russia through the wester approach, it's too much ground to cover. And in modern warfare, there wouldn't be any point in it. A southern approach from China or eastern approach from Japan would make more sense.

Outside of a stronger economy (for now) and a bigger military (for now), there's not much you can offer Russia that would make them balk at China. The risk would be too great. Unless we're going all in on Communism, extreme anti-middle class policies and violating most of our Constitution, us teaming up with Russia, China and Iran doesn't work out well.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-19-2017, 03:01 PM)Benton Wrote: China occupies a good chunk of their south side. Outside of people on the western side not wanting to fight Russia and China, not sure how it impacts their western front. But even with China out of the picture, most countries know you can't fight Russia through the wester approach, it's too much ground to cover. And in modern warfare, there wouldn't be any point in it. A southern approach from China or eastern approach from Japan would make more sense.

Outside of a stronger economy (for now) and a bigger military (for now), there's not much you can offer Russia that would make them balk at China. The risk would be too great. Unless we're going all in on Communism, extreme anti-middle class policies and violating most of our Constitution, us teaming up with Russia, China and Iran doesn't work out well.

Trade alone with Russia would be enough. Their economy needs it.

And as I said Germany will be a rising enemy going forward. Especially if they continue to Marshall the EU into their goals. Poland already sees what’s coming as do several other EU nations and they have been hitting the alarm.