Opinion: DeSantis 2024?

[*pally*]

(05-18-2023, 06:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Of course they do.


 
Of course they do, no one is arguing otherwise.  Did DeSantis not have the right to respond as he did?  Arguing whether someone had "the right" to act as they did doesn't really advance the conversation as this isn't in dispute.



Hmm, I can't agree with you here.  Disney's statement said, verbatim, "Our goal as a company is for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts, and we remain committed to supporting the national and state organizations working to achieve that."  I'm not sure labeling that response as "mild" could be considered accurate by a reasonable person.  Also, calling it the "Don't say gay" bill is a clear political talking point, further eroding your assertion.


No state income tax, business friendly government regulations, etc.  A better question would be why would any company bring business to CA?  Please refer to this CBS article regarding companies fleeing CA.  Florida ranks fourth out the five top destinations for those leaving.  All of the top five are red states or extremely purple.  I doubt those business leaders know less about this kind of thing that you do.  Also, it isn't "toeing the party line" to stay out of political fights unconnected to your business.

That is what Disney is taking DeSantis to court to find out.  Does a state or politician have the right to use governmental power to retaliate against an individual or corporation for speech?  My guess is that Disney will win that case.

Yeah, that statement was pretty mild IMO, especially since no action took place to follow up on it.

[*Nately120*]

(05-18-2023, 06:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I do yearn for the days when entertainment companies actually worried about entertaining instead of proselytizing.  

Fair points in the rest, but come on let's not act like Disney wasn't shoveling propaganda at folks when they made Song of the South, or any of those movies where a girl's dream come true was to marry the first man she saw once she reached the ripe ol' age of 14.  I won't even get into the how conservatives totally whiffed on cancelling Pinocchio for badmouthing cigars and beer.  

I think the anti-woke crowd are lamenting that Disney needs to go back to teaching "wholesome values" not so much saying that Disney should make societally-neutral content which they never have.  Personally, I think Disney really did a lot to make having dead parents seem appealing to kids.  I mean, what percentage of Disney characters have both parents living?  I guess that was the diplomatic way to get out of a marriage or responsibility without sinful divorce or breaking up a traditional family unit.  Disney was the original Forensic Files.

Anywho, the real takeaway from this is that DeSantis just isn't Trump.  Trump would have asked for donations to fight Disney's child-grooming agenda and then pocketed a quarter of a billion bucks and then said he made Disney cry and kiss his ass and that he won, DeSantis actually got into a ridiculous legal battle instead.  Amateur. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-18-2023, 06:50 PM)pally Wrote: That is what Disney is taking DeSantis to court to find out.  Does a state or politician have the right to use governmental power to retaliate against an individual or corporation for speech?  My guess is that Disney will win that case.

You mean does the governor of Florida have the right to revoke a sweet heart deal special privilege to a company that allows the company near autonomy within the borders of their state?  Please let me know what your guess is based on that you think Disney can prevail in this instance?  Corporations are people too?  Are you at all familiar with Delta losing millions in tax breaks after criticizing the GA government?  https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/04/01/georgia-house-passes-bill-stripping-delta-of-a-multimillion-tax-break-after-it-slammed-the-states-new-voting-restrictions/?sh=34cb033f4a42

Quote:Yeah, that statement was pretty mild IMO, especially since no action took place to follow up on it.

Goal post moving.  You said the statement was mild.  Stating the equivalent of we will do everything in our power to defeat it does not strike me as mild, nor would it to a reasonable person.  Preceding action is not a prerequisite to determine the severity of the statement, hence the accurate accusation of goal post moving on your part.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-18-2023, 07:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Fair points in the rest, but come on let's not act like Disney wasn't shoveling propaganda at folks when they made Song of the South, or any of those movies where a girl's dream come true was to marry the first man she saw once she reached the ripe ol' age of 14.

Dude, which classic Disney movie had the princess at age 14?  I assume you're referring to Snow White based on the Brother's Grimm fairy tale.  The Disney version couldn't be more sanitized if you tried.  The original tales were dark AF.

Quote: I won't even get into the how conservatives totally whiffed on cancelling Pinocchio for badmouthing cigars and beer.  

The original movie?  I legitimately have no memory of that.

Quote:I think the anti-woke crowd are lamenting that Disney needs to go back to teaching "wholesome values" not so much saying that Disney should make societally-neutral content which they never have.  Personally, I think Disney really did a lot to make having dead parents seem appealing to kids.  I mean, what percentage of Disney characters have both parents living?  I guess that was the diplomatic way to get out of a marriage or responsibility without sinful divorce or breaking up a traditional family unit.  Disney was the original Forensic Files.

Not a huge Disney fan myself, but I can't watch one of the classic movies, or the new golden age (e.g. Little Mermaid, Aladdin, BatB) and glean a political message from them.  My nephews are young, so I saw them quite a bit in the past few years.

Quote:Anywho, the real takeaway from this is that DeSantis just isn't Trump.  Trump would have asked for donations to fight Disney's child-grooming agenda and then pocketed a quarter of a billion bucks and then said he made Disney cry and kiss his ass and that he won, DeSantis actually got into a ridiculous legal battle instead.  Amateur. 

You cheeky monkey. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-18-2023, 07:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dude, which classic Disney movie had the princess at age 14?  I assume you're referring to Snow White based on the Brother's Grimm fairy tale.  The Disney version couldn't be more sanitized if you tried.  The original tales were dark AF.



The original movie?  I legitimately have no memory of that.



Not a huge Disney fan myself, but I can't watch one of the classic movies, or the new golden age (e.g. Little Mermaid, Aladdin, BatB) and glean a political message from them.  My nephews are young, so I saw them quite a bit in the past few years.


You cheeky monkey. 

Disney aside, a lot of "entertainment" has a political message.  If folks like DeSantis realized that they would have seen Lindsey Graham as the lone scientist who said "If we build this monster, we'll lose control and it'll destroy us all!"  Disney always has the message that ugly people and step-families are evil, at least.

Whether you are making a movie about the perils of nuclear testing, or writing a song called Born In the USA, some folks will get it and some folks won't.  I'm no comic head, but isn't The Punisher a Nixon-era critique of the justice system?  That's a bunch of preachy commie talk, but now it's a symbol for some of the uh, more authoritarian leaning of us.  Lord almighty, as a culture we are great at missing the point.


My favorite non-political one is the movie Rocky.  A story about a down and out kid from humble roots who goes the distance with the champ, he doesn't win the match, but he won at life.  Response from the public....Hey, that was nice but how about instead of not winning Rocky is like, invincible and always wins?  Yeah!  That'd be way better!  Give us that!


EDIT - I was going to add that back in the good ol' days step-sisters were ugly and evil and looked like Jewish stereotypes, but these days step-sister is like THE most popular porno hub thing.  I'm too classy to point that out, though. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-18-2023, 07:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Disney aside, a lot of "entertainment" has a political message.  If folks like DeSantis realized that they would have seen Lindsey Graham as the lone scientist who said "If we build this monster, we'll lose control and it'll destroy us all!"  Disney always has the message that ugly people and step-families are evil, at least.

I don't disagree, but there's a huge difference in subtlety.  Today's movies beat you over the head with a hammer instead of insinuating something for you to think about.  

Quote:Whether you are making a movie about the perils of nuclear testing, or writing a song called Born In the USA, some folks will get it and some folks won't.  I'm no comic head, but isn't The Punisher a Nixon-era critique of the justice system?  That's a bunch of preachy commie talk, but now it's a symbol for some of the uh, more authoritarian leaning of us.  Lord almighty, as a culture we are great at missing the point.

Dude, one of my favorite comics growing up was Watchmen, even though I normally loathed DC.  It's clever and nuanced and there are no "good guys" just people making compromises and doing the best they can, in most instances.  The only person of real principle is Rorschach, and he's a legit psychopath.  But, get this, it's all told well and with nuance.  Characters are fleshed out and real, not caricatures.  No on the nose stereotypes, but real seeming people with flaws.  Hell, even the Comedian in Watchmen has some sympathetic qualities and he's a complete bastard.  Also, yes I know the story was written by a political extremist, but regardless he did a damned good job.
 

Quote:My favorite non-political one is the movie Rocky.  A story about a down and out kid from humble roots who goes the distance with the champ, he doesn't win the match, but he won at life.  Response from the public....Hey, that was nice but how about instead of not winning Rocky is like, invincible and always wins?  Yeah!  That'd be way better!  Give us that!

The original is a superb movie, no doubt.  When I was very little I saw Rocky at a drive in with my parents as a double feature before Star Wars.  I had zero interest in it and yet was eventually fully invested in it.  I still liked Star Wars a lot more though.

Quote:EDIT - I was going to add that back in the good ol' days step-sisters were ugly and evil and looked like Jewish stereotypes, but these days step-sister is like THE most popular porno hub thing.  I'm too classy to point that out, though. 

Good thing for both of us. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-18-2023, 07:53 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't disagree, but there's a huge difference in subtlety.  Today's movies beat you over the head with a hammer instead of insinuating something for you to think about.  

That would probably explain why so many people think Travis Bickle was an aspirational character. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-18-2023, 04:20 PM)pally Wrote: Disney has pulled the plug on building a billion-dollar office complex that would have housed a division of the company being relocated from California.  This division would have brought 2000 permanent jobs with an average salary of $120,000 to Orlando.

Ohhh noes!!11!!!!

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/18/disney-scraps-lake-nona-florida-campus.html

Many Disney employees balked at the company’s relocation plans when they were first announced in July 2021 by former CEO Bob Chapek. While some left the company, or transitioned to other posts within Disney that would not require a move to Florida, others held out hope that the plan would fizzle out after a postponement. The campus was originally slated to open in 2022-2023, but was later delayed to 2026.


D’Amaro reiterated in his memo that the company still plans to invest $17 billion in Florida over the next 10 years, including the addition of around 13,000 jobs. The company currently employs more than 75,000 people in the state.


Who knew that this story wasn't exactly as advertised?

[GMDino]

(05-18-2023, 06:13 PM)pally Wrote: DeSantis and other politicians gladly take Disney's and other company's money for their campaigns. Disney, had a right to speak up.  And seriously, the statement put out on the bill was so mild it wasn't even worth the effort.  A true leader would have simply stated something like "that's their opinion" and moved on. DeSantis, instead, went full Rambo on them trying to prove...his masculinity?  Any disagreement must be suppressed in the People's Republic of Florida.

Why would any company, even conservative ones, bring jobs into Florida if they don't need to?  You don't toe the official line you're subject of not even close to subtle political attacks on your business.

DeSantis comes up with the asinine Don't Say Gay bill.  Disney says they support the LGBT community and don't like the bill.  DeSantis, little dictator that he is has spent almost every moment since going after Disney to show how tough he is...lol.

You're correct that the right wants their money and for them to keep their mouths shut.  

"Corporations are people too"...until they disagree with a conservative.  Then they are monoliths who are grooming the children!! 

[*pally*]

DeSantis seemed perfectly fine with Reedy Creek until Disney spoke out against his pet bill. He didn't run on it. He didn't talk about it until he was crossed. The people who lived in the District appreciated how well it was maintained and didn't ask to have it dissolved. It was retaliation. DeSantis as much as said so multiple times. They are passing bills to single out a single company...Disney. It's up to the court to decide the legality...but I question the leadership ability of anyone who uses the power of the government to retaliate against those with political differences

[GMDino]

Ron found someone that will make HIM look likeable.

Sarah Huckabee Sanders the ‘Frontrunner’ Being Considered by Ron DeSantis for VP Pick https://t.co/Sl9K6gAy9w

— #TuckFrump (@realTuckFrumper) May 19, 2023

 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-18-2023, 10:16 PM)pally Wrote: DeSantis seemed perfectly fine with Reedy Creek until Disney spoke out against his pet bill.  He didn't run on it.  He didn't talk about it until he was crossed.  The people who lived in the District appreciated how well it was maintained and didn't ask to have it dissolved.  It was retaliation.  DeSantis as much as said so multiple times.  They are passing bills to single out a single company...Disney.  It's up to the court to decide the legality...but I question the leadership ability of anyone who uses the power of the government to retaliate against those with political differences

And Georgia was perfectly fine with the tax breaks they gave Delta until Delta criticized their new laws on voting.  I even provided you with the link above.  Taking away special privileges isn't violating your rights, it's treating you the same as everyone else.  Now, if they imposed penalties unique to Disney you'd have a point, but what they did was take away special privileges unique to Disney.  The comparison to the Delta/GA case is an apples to apples comparison.  Disney has no case here.

[Belsnickel]

(05-19-2023, 11:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: And Georgia was perfectly fine with the tax breaks they gave Delta until Delta criticized their new laws on voting.  I even provided you with the link above.  Taking away special privileges isn't violating your rights, it's treating you the same as everyone else.  Now, if they imposed penalties unique to Disney you'd have a point, but what they did was take away special privileges unique to Disney.  The comparison to the Delta/GA case is an apples to apples comparison.  Disney has no case here.

It's not apples-to-apples for a few reasons. One, the House passed the legislation in Georgia, it did not become law. Two, the legislation would've ended the sales tax exemption for all jet fuel sales, not just for Delta. It just would've impacted Delta more than anyone else. In the Disney case, it was specifically targeted legislation. Third, and most important, DeSantis has stated publicly, including in his book, that the move was retaliatory against Disney for their statements.

Like it or not, our law sees corporations as individuals with constitutional rights, meaning that they have the right to free speech. Government actions that specifically target them and have explicitly been stated to be retaliatory are infringing on those rights. There not a 0% chance of Florida succeeding in this legal battle, but I give them less than a 5% chance, even with a friendly SCOTUS.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-19-2023, 11:52 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not apples-to-apples for a few reasons. One, the House passed the legislation in Georgia, it did not become law. Two, the legislation would've ended the sales tax exemption for all jet fuel sales, not just for Delta. It just would've impacted Delta more than anyone else. In the Disney case, it was specifically targeted legislation. Third, and most important, DeSantis has stated publicly, including in his book, that the move was retaliatory against Disney for their statements.

Like it or not, our law sees corporations as individuals with constitutional rights, meaning that they have the right to free speech. Government actions that specifically target them and have explicitly been stated to be retaliatory are infringing on those rights. There not a 0% chance of Florida succeeding in this legal battle, but I give them less than a 5% chance, even with a friendly SCOTUS.

I consider myself corrected and thank you.  I still have to wonder if taking away a special privilege can be counted as an infringement, retaliatory or not.  Treating you the same as everyone else doesn't seem like a punishment.

[*Nately120*]

(05-19-2023, 11:52 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not apples-to-apples for a few reasons. One, the House passed the legislation in Georgia, it did not become law. Two, the legislation would've ended the sales tax exemption for all jet fuel sales, not just for Delta. It just would've impacted Delta more than anyone else. In the Disney case, it was specifically targeted legislation. Third, and most important, DeSantis has stated publicly, including in his book, that the move was retaliatory against Disney for their statements.

Like it or not, our law sees corporations as individuals with constitutional rights, meaning that they have the right to free speech. Government actions that specifically target them and have explicitly been stated to be retaliatory are infringing on those rights. There not a 0% chance of Florida succeeding in this legal battle, but I give them less than a 5% chance, even with a friendly SCOTUS.

That is what strikes me the most and again highlights the difference between DeSantis and Trump.  When Trump was president his supporters took issue with the NFL due to the Kaepernick situation.  Trump didn't start legal action against the billionaire owners of the NFL or attempt to enact retaliatory legislation, he simply said that Kaepernick is a son of a ***** and that the NFL is losing a lot of money now because of their handling of him, or something to that effect.  It's that simple.  You just say stuff and then say that the offending person or corporation is a loser and it's doing very terribly now because it disagrees with you and your supporters.

The playbook is right in front of DeSantis but he doesn't use it.

Bob Iger is a woke coward who is selling out the reputation of a vaunted American tradition of a corporation in order to placate an insatiable cult of leftist ideology and his company is doing very badly for it.  Very badly.  Sad, really.  They were once so good and rich, but now not so much.  We all know the great American patriot and noted conservative, Walt Disney, would never have done this and he would be very very unhappy to see his treasured company run this way.


There, no legal action needed.  Give 'em words, they love words.  If they didn't love words, DeSantis wouldn't be getting his ass kicked in the primary polls.

[*pally*]

(05-19-2023, 11:52 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not apples-to-apples for a few reasons. One, the House passed the legislation in Georgia, it did not become law. Two, the legislation would've ended the sales tax exemption for all jet fuel sales, not just for Delta. It just would've impacted Delta more than anyone else. In the Disney case, it was specifically targeted legislation. Third, and most important, DeSantis has stated publicly, including in his book, that the move was retaliatory against Disney for their statements.

Like it or not, our law sees corporations as individuals with constitutional rights, meaning that they have the right to free speech. Government actions that specifically target them and have explicitly been stated to be retaliatory are infringing on those rights. There not a 0% chance of Florida succeeding in this legal battle, but I give them less than a 5% chance, even with a friendly SCOTUS.

And even if Disney as a corporation doesn't have the right to free speech former CEO Bob Chapek certainly does.  

[Belsnickel]

(05-19-2023, 12:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I consider myself corrected and thank you.  I still have to wonder if taking away a special privilege can be counted as an infringement, retaliatory or not.  Treating you the same as everyone else doesn't seem like a punishment.

It's not treating them the same as everyone else, though. Community Development Districts (CDDs) are an administrative division of Florida's government established and governed by Florida law. Under Florida law, these districts are government by a board of supervisors (B0S) elected by the landowners. The Reedy Creek CDD encompasses land owned entirely (or almost entirely) by Disney. The law passed by Florida stripped them of their ability to elect their own BoS, rename the district, and made them governed by a governor appointed board. So this created a different type of special district just for Disney that is unique, unlike their prior status which was something established in Florida law and is in use in other places (most notably The Villages).

So, if anything, the special treatment is what the new legislation established.

(I can get real wonky on this stuff because I am an appointed zoning official in my municipality which means land use laws like this are a specialty of my technocratic knowledge)

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-19-2023, 12:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's not treating them the same as everyone else, though. Community Development Districts (CDDs) are an administrative division of Florida's government established and governed by Florida law. Under Florida law, these districts are government by a board of supervisors (B0S) elected by the landowners. The Reedy Creek CDD encompasses land owned entirely (or almost entirely) by Disney. The law passed by Florida stripped them of their ability to elect their own BoS, rename the district, and made them governed by a governor appointed board. So this created a different type of special district just for Disney that is unique, unlike their prior status which was something established in Florida law and is in use in other places (most notably The Villages).

So, if anything, the special treatment is what the new legislation established.

(I can get real wonky on this stuff because I am an appointed zoning official in my municipality which means land use laws like this are a specialty of my technocratic knowledge)

I was going to ask why, then DeSantis would enact laws that are so likely to be struck down.  Then I recalled the constant lawfair by CA against the second amendment and got my answer.  It's more for show than it is meant to accomplish anything of substance.  And it will irritate those you want to irritate, even if only temporarily.

[Belsnickel]

(05-19-2023, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I was going to ask why, then DeSantis would enact laws that are so likely to be struck down.  Then I recalled the constant lawfair by CA against the second amendment and got my answer.  It's more for show than it is meant to accomplish anything of substance.  And it will irritate those you want to irritate, even if only temporarily.

Yep. It is virtue signaling on a grand scale. The worst part about it is that it wastes taxpayer resources for no real gain.

[GMDino]

Whew.  I was afraid we could also blame liberals there for a second.  

All seriousness aside I'd say attempted gun laws vs woke Disney laws aren't the same either...other than the likelihood they will not be upheld.