Paid Protesters Protest not getting Paid

[*bfine32*]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/19/hired-black-lives-matter-protesters-start-cutthech/#ixzz3acmWpseK

Quote:Hired protesters with the Black Lives Matter movement have started a #CutTheCheck hashtag and held a sit-in at the offices for the successor group to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in Missouri after the group allegedly stopped paying them.

FrontPage Magazine reports that Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment (MORE) has been paying protesters $5,000 a month to demonstrate in Ferguson. Last week, hired protesters who haven’t been paid held a sit-in at MORE’s offices and posted a demand letter online.

$5,000 a month and all you can loot seems like a pretty good deal.

But as usual the White Man is to blame:

Quote:“Questions have been raised as to how the movement is to sustain when white non-profits are hoarding monies collected of off [sic] black bodies? When we will [sic] hold the industry of black suffering accountable? The people of the community are fed up and the accountability begins here and now,” the statement said.

“We NEED to be thinking about justice for black people,” it continued. “This means white people must renounce their loyalty to the social normalcy that maintains white power and control.

[StLucieBengal]

Hahahahaha noce job Soros....

Why all these protests are nothing but progressive shenenagins to seize control .... Obama and Sharpton are wanting a domestic army to protect the cities

[GMDino]

(05-20-2015, 08:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/19/hired-black-lives-matter-protesters-start-cutthech/#ixzz3acmWpseK


$5,000 a month and all you can loot seems like a pretty good deal.

But as usual the White Man is to blame:

While trying to find the start of this story I cam across some disturbing things.

Namely, Soros wasn't behind it and the "checks" weren't a payment for protesting.

http://www.organizemo.org/movement_support_fund

Announcing the Movement Support Fund
Posted by Arielle Klagsbrun 273.60sc on March 30, 2015 · Flag
If you have trouble viewing or submitting this form, you can fill it out in Google Forms.

Quote:Movement Support Fund
***APPLICATION HERE***

Purpose:

Organization for Black Struggle (OBS) and Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment (MORE) are pleased to offer travel funding for individuals and grassroots groups that are working to advocate for police accountability and Black lives. A fixed sum of $20,000 has been set aside for this initiative. Applications are fulfilled on a 1st come, 1st served basis until the fixed sum is exhausted. In your application, please honor the guiding principle that your funded work/travel be collaborative and shared out to as many people as possible.

Travel funding is available for Individuals ($300), Groups of 3+ ppl ($1000), and Large Collaborations of 6+ ($2000) to take trips that directly help attendees advocate for police accountability and Black lives. Applications must be submitted 2 wks before your departure date.
Transparency:


In order to be fully transparent in this process, OBS and MORE will list the names and travel objectives of all the funding recipients. We also commit to facilitating as many projects as possible, as democratically as possible, elevating work that will produce the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

Accountability:


1. Upon returning from the trip, the funding recipient(s) will share experiences in one of two ways:
--Complete a written report explaining the event/trip, experiences, and gains which will be posted online and share with the broader community.
--Schedule a public report back session to feedback on the trip and answer questions.
Failure to provide a report back will result in no longer being eligible for future funding opportunities.

We recognize that there may be interest in using this fund to support actions and events here at home. Feel free to use this form to apply to organize actions and events in the St. Louis region. Ideally, your requests will allow us to establish shared resources that are not just financial: art supplies, equipment, tents etc that could be shared by a variety of groups. To this goal, we ask that you make your requests with an eye towards what can be used as collective resources.

For questions please email:
jeff@organizemo.org
bukky@obs-stl.org

Not exactly "shipping protesters in".



I realize not everyone can sit back and follow links to the original story...or beyond. Just thought I'd help y'all out.

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2015, 10:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: While trying to find the start of this story I cam across some disturbing things.

Namely, Soros wasn't behind it and the "checks" weren't a payment for protesting.

http://www.organizemo.org/movement_support_fund

Announcing the Movement Support Fund
Posted by Arielle Klagsbrun 273.60sc on March 30, 2015 · Flag
If you have trouble viewing or submitting this form, you can fill it out in Google Forms.


Not exactly "shipping protesters in".



I realize not everyone can sit back and follow links to the original story...or beyond.  Just thought I'd help y'all out.

I'm not sure anything you posted refutes what the OP suggested.

Is it you assertion that it doesn't count as getting paid to protest; it only counts as get paid to travel to the protest site? I can see that makes a world of difference.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2015, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure anything you posted refutes what the OP suggested.

Is it you assertion that it doesn't count as getting paid to protest; it only counts as get paid to travel to the protest site? I can see that makes a world of difference.

I don't really know much of anything about this, but if the organization is merely paying travel expenses for groups that want to go, that isn't "paying them". Paying them would imply something above and beyond the expenses to travel to the location, which is not what appears to be the purpose for this fund.

[GMDino]

(05-20-2015, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure anything you posted refutes what the OP suggested.

Is it you assertion that it doesn't count as getting paid to protest; it only counts as get paid to travel to the protest site? I can see that makes a world of difference.

Its my assertion that you didn't read what I posted...or you just ignored it because it disagreed with what you posted.

(05-21-2015, 07:40 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't really know much of anything about this, but if the organization is merely paying travel expenses for groups that want to go, that isn't "paying them". Paying them would imply something above and beyond the expenses to travel to the location, which is not what appears to be the purpose for this fund.

Yep. Someone set up a fund that protesters could apply to to be reimbursed for things related to a protest. Someone else saw that they weren't getting their money quickly and turned it into "Soros is busing in these people!!11!11!!!!1!!"

Which isn't true. But the headline is probably the lead on FOX this morning....

[*michaelsean*]

(05-20-2015, 10:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: While trying to find the start of this story I cam across some disturbing things.

Namely, Soros wasn't behind it and the "checks" weren't a payment for protesting.

http://www.organizemo.org/movement_support_fund

Announcing the Movement Support Fund
Posted by Arielle Klagsbrun 273.60sc on March 30, 2015 · Flag
If you have trouble viewing or submitting this form, you can fill it out in Google Forms.


Not exactly "shipping protesters in".



I realize not everyone can sit back and follow links to the original story...or beyond.  Just thought I'd help y'all out.

I don't know that one has anything to do with the other. One is showing how people can be reimbursed for travel, but that doesn't negate people getting paid to protest.

[GMDino]

(05-21-2015, 09:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know that one has anything to do with the other.  One is showing how people can be reimbursed for travel, but that doesn't negate people getting paid to protest.

Because being possibly reimbursed for doing something is not the same as hiring them to do it.

And George Soros isn't behind some plot to bus in protesters.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-21-2015, 10:07 AM)GMDino Wrote: Because being possibly reimbursed for doing something is not the same as hiring them to do it.  

And George Soros isn't behind some plot to bus in protesters.

No it's not the same, but one doesn't eliminate the other. I'm not saying it happened or didn't happen, I'm just saying they aren't mutually exclusive. You showed us how travel can be reimbursed. I don't know how that means people aren't paid.

[GMDino]

(05-21-2015, 10:30 AM)michaelsean Wrote: No it's not the same, but one doesn't eliminate the other.  I'm not saying it happened or didn't happen, I'm just saying they aren't mutually exclusive.  You showed us how travel can be reimbursed.  I don't know how that means people aren't paid.

Read the OP and Lucy's response...

Then take a few seconds off this board and google it. All I did was find the source and show it wasn't people hired to protest and being offered pay of $5000 a month and that it only came to light because they didn't get paid.

Your issue should be with the people who misread the story and continued that theme...

[*michaelsean*]

(05-21-2015, 10:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: Read the OP and Lucy's response...

Then take a few seconds off this board and google it.   All I did was find the source and show it wasn't people hired to protest and being offered pay of $5000 a month and that it only came to light because they didn't get paid.

Your issue should be with the people who misread the story and continued that theme...

Maybe I'm missing something here. All I see you showing is how people can be reimbursed for travel. How does that mean people also weren't paid?

[GMDino]

(05-21-2015, 11:08 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here.  All I see you showing is how people can be reimbursed for travel.  How does that mean people also weren't paid?

Because they weren't HIRED to protest and then shipped there are the conspiracy people like to think...and post.

They can request to reimbursed for what they did.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2015, 07:40 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't really know much of anything about this, but if the organization is merely paying travel expenses for groups that want to go, that isn't "paying them". Paying them would imply something above and beyond the expenses to travel to the location, which is not what appears to be the purpose for this fund.

I wonder why they listed the compensation prior to travel and didn't state it would be capped at this amount. I have taken business trips in which travel expenses are paid and never have been told how much I will be paid prior to turning in my expenses. I'd imagine $2,000 for a group of 6 to travel from St Louis to Feguson seems about right for "travel expenses".

Folks see what they want to see and close their eyes to the things they do not.

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2015, 12:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wonder why they listed the compensation prior to travel and didn't state it would be capped at this amount. I have taken business trips in which travel expenses are paid and never have been told how much I will be paid prior to turning in my expenses. I'd imagine $2,000 for a group of 6 to travel from St Louis to Feguson seems about right for "travel expenses".

Folks see what they want to see and close their eyes to the things they do not.

We always know how much we will be paid when we travel for business. They are set amounts for meals, so if we go over it's on us, under we benefit. Hotels are best rate in the area, etc.

Anyway, it does say that amount is for "6+", so it could be for an even larger group. Maybe renting a van to haul everyone, gas for it, maybe hotel rooms. Especially considering how long they could end up there that bill could rack up. That $2000 amount could only cover a portion, or it could cover it all. This isn't like a travel reimbursement, it's more like a grant.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2015, 12:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: We always know how much we will be paid when we travel for business. They are set amounts for meals, so if we go over it's on us, under we benefit. Hotels are best rate in the area, etc.

Yes, we call this per diem. We also receive a per diem; however, we also must provide reciepts for various other expenses and "settle up" at the end. Obviously, your business conducts their travel expense accounts differently A method, in which, total amount is agreed upon upfront and if you encounter additional expense it is on you. Not sure how often I'd like to travel with your company.

(05-21-2015, 12:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Anyway, it does say that amount is for "6+", so it could be for an even larger group. Maybe renting a van to haul everyone, gas for it, maybe hotel rooms. Especially considering how long they could end up there that bill could rack up. That $2000 amount could only cover a portion, or it could cover it all. This isn't like a travel reimbursement, it's more like a grant.

We see what we want to see and close our eyes to those things we do not.

[GMDino]

(05-21-2015, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, we call this per diem. We also receive a per diem; however, we also must provide reciepts for various other expenses and "settle up" at the end. Obviously, your business conducts their travel expense accounts differently A method, in which, total amount is agreed upon upfront and if you encounter additional expense it is on you. Not sure how often I'd like to travel with your company.


We see what we want to see and close our eyes to those things we do not.

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2015, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, we call this per diem. We also receive a per diem; however, we also must provide reciepts for various other expenses and "settle up" at the end. Obviously, your business conducts their travel expense accounts differently A method, in which, total amount is agreed upon upfront and if you encounter additional expense it is on you. Not sure how often I'd like to travel with your company.

Welcome to government travel. Everything is per diem.

In fact, except for specific metropolitan areas we are only reimbursed $86/night for hotel rooms for in state travel. You can get exceptions and they usually aren't to bad about it, but you have to provide a lot of documentation about hotel rates in the area to show why you need the exception. Oftentimes this results in you staying at a hotel miles away from the conference you're attending.

Quote:We see what we want to see and close our eyes to those things we do not.

Goes both ways. I just like to give the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping immediately into corruption talk and what not.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2015, 01:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Welcome to government travel. Everything is per diem.  

So you do not know in advance how much you are getting. There's a calculation based on length of stay. I would hope if your stay had to be extended; you would receive more than the "agreed upon in advance" flat payment. I would further hope that if you are required to use a vehicle to make the trip that you are paid "per mile" for your trip.

All this seems kind of different than "we are going to pay you guys $2000 to travel to Ferguson" (BTW, I wonder how they determined that a minimum of 6 were in the travel party). IF the link published had discussed length of stay (per diem) and cents per mile, then the "travel expense" scenario would hold a little more water. As it stands, it is simply we are going to give 6 of you $2,000 to go to Ferguson and protest.

(05-21-2015, 01:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Goes both ways. I just like to give the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping immediately into corruption talk and what not.

Does this "benefit of the doubt" approach hold true in all cases?

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2015, 01:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you do not know in advance how much you are getting. There's a calculation based on length of stay. I would hope if your stay had to be extended; you would receive more than the "agreed upon in advance" flat payment. I would further hope that if you are required to use a vehicle to make the trip that you are paid "per mile" for your trip.

Emergency situations do happen, indeed. Also, they like us to take state vehicles.

(05-21-2015, 01:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: All this seems kind of different than "we are going to pay you guys $2000 to travel to Ferguson" (BTW, I wonder how they determined that a minimum of 6 were in the travel party). IF the link published had discussed length of stay (per diem) and cents per mile, then the "travel expense" scenario would hold a little more water. As it stands, it is simply we are going to give 6 of you $2,000 to go to Ferguson and protest.

This is why, like I stated earlier, it is more like a grant than a travel reimbursement. Grants are for specific things, however, and these grants seemed to be intended to cover travel expenses.

(05-21-2015, 01:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Does this "benefit of the doubt" approach hold true in all cases?

I try my best to make it so. Doesn't always work out as I hold some to a higher standard, but I try to take that approach at all times.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-21-2015, 11:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: Because they weren't HIRED to protest and then shipped there are the conspiracy people like to think...and post.

They can request to reimbursed for what they did.

I'm really not trying to be difficult, but the organization having a page that says how they compensate travel doesn't mean they also didn't pay people or in this case promise to pay them. If I show you a page where they accept donations, I can't say, 'See they don't pay people, they are asking people to pay them."