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**Rotobeast** · 06-11-2016, 10:46 AM

(06-11-2016, 09:59 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps I should start looking into the Libertarian Party?

There are so many people that are Libertarians and do not realize it.
The whole 3rd party stigma of being kooky is still a hang-up.

**SunsetBengal** · 06-11-2016, 10:50 AM

(06-11-2016, 10:46 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: There are so look many people that are Libertarians and do not realize it.
The whole 3rd party stigma of being kooky is still a hang-up.

Kooky? That would be the modern Democrat Party, with kooks like H. Clinton, E. Warren, A. Franken, B. Sanders, and so forth..

Would be nice to see all of the sane people, from both sides come together in one, centrist party.

**Rotobeast** · 06-11-2016, 12:54 PM

(06-11-2016, 10:50 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Kooky? That would be the modern Democrat Party, with kooks like H. Clinton, E. Warren, A. Franken, B. Sanders, and so forth..

Would be nice to see all of the sane people, from both sides come together in one, centrist party.

I know a lot of people who regard any third party as such, unfortunately.

***Nately120*** · 06-11-2016, 01:34 PM

(06-11-2016, 09:59 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Perhaps I should start looking into the Libertarian Party?

Better late than never! ThumbsUp

(06-11-2016, 12:54 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I know a lot of people who regard any third party as such, unfortunately.

I've been pushing the Libertarian line since 2008 or so and the pervasive "Oh, why vote for them if they can't win" mindset the 2-party system has worked so hard to foster is deep-seeded, indeed.

**SunsetBengal** · 06-11-2016, 02:33 PM

..

[Image: 13339599_857585631042142_704338406052910...e=580856AB]

**Rotobeast** · 06-11-2016, 03:15 PM

(06-11-2016, 01:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Better late than never!

I've been pushing the Libertarian line since 2008 or so and the pervasive "Oh, why vote for them if they can't win" mindset the 2-party system has worked so hard to foster is deep-seeded, indeed.

Last comment....
Same here.
I even have some Ron Paul currency, before they raided the mint
LOL

**JustWinBaby** · 06-11-2016, 03:44 PM

(06-11-2016, 10:46 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: There are so many people that are Libertarians and do not realize it.

That's so true. And that's a really good, really effective chart (granted, probably needs to be a bit briefer for the average person to actually bother to read).

I think this is the year where, if Gary Johnson can get on the stage, Libertarians are going to make some real headway. Mitt Romney just said he will be voting for him. That's huge. Rumors are Koch brothers and Steve Wynn are also giving him large sums of money.

***Nately120*** · 06-11-2016, 04:36 PM

(06-11-2016, 03:44 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: That's so true. And that's a really good, really effective chart (granted, probably needs to be a bit briefer for the average person to actually bother to read).

I think this is the year where, if Gary Johnson can get on the stage, Libertarians are going to make some real headway. Mitt Romney just said he will be voting for him. That's huge. Rumors are Koch brothers and Steve Wynn are also giving him large sums of money.

Hmm, I'm prepared to finally do a giant flip-flop on these guys and their undue influence if it FINALLY applies to someone I support.

**Belsnickel** · 06-11-2016, 05:08 PM

(06-11-2016, 01:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I've been pushing the Libertarian line since 2008 or so and the pervasive "Oh, why vote for them if they can't win" mindset the 2-party system has worked so hard to foster is deep-seeded, indeed.

Same boat, though 2004 was my first POTUS election and I went Nader. But I have yet to vote for a major party candidate in a POTUS election. The same holds true for every state and national level election I have voted in. I will write in a candidate before voting for on of the major parties.

**JustWinBaby** · 06-11-2016, 05:11 PM

(06-11-2016, 04:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, I'm prepared to finally do a giant flip-flop on these guys and their undue influence if it FINALLY applies to someone I support.

David Koch was the Libertarian VP candidate way back in 1980. They founded the Cato Institute, which is a libertarian think tank in the late '70's.

They are Libertarians, but they don't waste their money and so have funneled it to Repubs because the Repub party is [somewhat] closer to their ideals than Dems.

**JustWinBaby** · 06-11-2016, 05:49 PM

***Nately120*** · 06-11-2016, 06:41 PM

(06-11-2016, 05:11 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: David Koch was the Libertarian VP candidate way back in 1980. They founded the Cato Institute, which is a libertarian think tank in the late '70's.

They are Libertarians, but they don't waste their money and so have funneled it to Repubs because the Repub party is [somewhat] closer to their ideals than Dems.

I'm aware of the Cato Institute and it's origins, but supporting a candidate that is outwardly and unfairly socially conservative revokes your Libertarian card in my mind. Perhaps that can make amends.

**JustWinBaby** · 06-11-2016, 06:55 PM

(06-11-2016, 06:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm aware of the Cato Institute and it's origins, but supporting a candidate that is outwardly and unfairly socially conservative revokes your Libertarian card in my mind. Perhaps that can make amends.

No, socially liberal is only one part of the Libertarian platform. There have been no Repub or Dem candidates for POTUS that a Libertarian could support in good faith.

I certainly think one can be a Libertarian but, come election day, choose the lesser of two evils if there's not a viable Libertarian candidate.

***Nately120*** · 06-11-2016, 07:52 PM

(06-11-2016, 06:55 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: No, socially liberal is only one part of the Libertarian platform. There have been no Repub or Dem candidates for POTUS that a Libertarian could support in good faith.

I certainly think one can be a Libertarian but, come election day, choose the lesser of two evils if there's not a viable Libertarian candidate.

I agree, and it's up to each of us to decide the compromises we want to make, but social liberty always seemed like the crux of the Libertarian party for me. A booming economy and secure country are great, but what value are such things if we are promoting government oppression and the intentional reduction of freedom?

Again, to each his own.

**JustWinBaby** · 06-11-2016, 08:58 PM

(06-11-2016, 07:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: A booming economy and secure country are great, but what value are such things if we are promoting government oppression and the intentional reduction of freedom?

Again, to each his own.

I disagree that Repubs "intentially reduce freedom". And really the two go hand-in-hand. I don't necessarily see reason to place one above the other, although personally I'm inclined to favor economic freedom and limited govt. Social issues just seem less important when people are struggling to find jobs and provide for their families.

Plus, on the Dem side I see mostly lip service and failed programs when it comes to true social justice. There's that old joke about govt - and really it applies to both sides - that if they actually solved problems and fixed things then they might find themselves out of a job.