Pro-Choice People: Babies Feel Excruciating Pain During Abortions

[BFritz21]

A medical expert confirms that babies feel EXCRUCIATING pain during abortions:

Do the pro-choice people still think it's harmless and just the "mother's choice," so it should be allowed?

Quote:Despite the peer-reviewed studies and research backing her claims, Dr. Condic is vilified by abortion activists for being “unscientific.” Leah Torres, a Salt Lake City abortionist best known for her inflammatory tweets told the Tribune, “She is willfully ignorant or not up-to-date,” this despite the fact that Dr. Condic is on the cutting-edge of research into prenatal neural development.

Dr. Condic explained to the Tribune, “The neural circuitry underlying the most basic response to pain is in place by eight weeks. It is entirely uncontested in the scientific and medical literature that a fetus experiences pain in some capacity from as early as eight weeks.” This information has been found through scientific study, not, as abortion activists falsely claim, through Pro-Life activists manipulating data. Eller called Condic’s work “a coercion of science to forward a political agenda,” but the error seems rather to be on the part of abortion activists who refuse to acknowledge scientific evidence that calls into question the ethics and legal status of elective abortion.

Dr. Condic clarified to the Tribune, “I’m not reporting bad science. I’m reporting an interpretation of science that’s open to discussion.” At the heart of Dr. Condic’s interpretation is the basic theory of human rights that demands that we err on the side of Life. In no other circumstance would people assume that a person can be ripped limb from limb while her heart is still beating simply because we cannot get a first-hand account of the type of pain she is experiencing.

There's more in the article, but that gets the main point out.

Why aren't we hearing more about this? Is it because the liberal media is afraid that this tears apart their narrative of "it's the woman's choice and no one gets hurt"?

EXCRUTIATING PAIN!!!!! Do the pro-choice people on here think that it's ok just because the baby will be dead soon anyways? Then what's the difference between torturing someone that we're just going to kill anyways?

[Belsnickel]

So, fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks, when only roughly 1% of abortions occur.

Nope, doesn't change my mind at all.

[BFritz21]

(12-18-2018, 09:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks, when only roughly 1% of abortions occur.

Nope, doesn't change my mind at all.

Did you not even read what I quoted, much-less look at the site?

Quote:"The neural circuitry underlying the most basic response to pain is in place by eight weeks."

So does that change your mind?

[Au165]

This thread has all the makings of a classic.

[Belsnickel]

(12-18-2018, 10:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Did you not even look at the site, much-less read what I quoted?

So does that change your mind?

Nope. And I did read the link. Some perception of pain versus a mature perception of pain are two different things. Mature perception of pain isn't in until 20 weeks. Over 90% of abortions are performed within the first trimester, or at less than 13 weeks. Trying to base abortion policy on the very few exceptions and acting like it applies broadly to abortions as a whole is flawed.

[*bfine32*]

(12-18-2018, 09:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks, when only roughly 1% of abortions occur.

Nope, doesn't change my mind at all.

What day of the 20th week do they begin to feel pain?

[Belsnickel]

(12-18-2018, 10:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What day of the 20th week do they begin to feel pain?

I don't know, I'm not the expert on this stuff. I just saw an expert talking about a mature perception of pain at 20 weeks.

[GMDino]

(12-18-2018, 10:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: This thread has all the makings of a classic.

I can't believe people can't agree on something as simple as abortion.  

[*Nately120*]

Side note, this reminds me of how sex ed in my school only involved s slide show of gruesome STDs and aborted fetuses, along with a lengthy description of how they are done and how much agony the fetus/baby is in during the process.

[NATI BENGALS]

Meanwhile at the child prison camps... Its either the color of their skin or nationality, but it makes them not feel pain and impervious to trauma. Waiting for a pro life scientist to finish the study.

[ballsofsteel]

Republicans spread their fake news about abortions. They want those fetuses to be born so they have bodies to send off to war when needed thus sparing their own children the honor of serving their country.

[Belsnickel]

(12-19-2018, 02:34 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Meanwhile at the child prison camps... Its either the color of their skin or nationality, but it makes them not feel pain and impervious to trauma. Waiting for a pro life scientist to finish the study.

It's interesting, but people do perceive people of color as being more resistant to pain. Can't remember which social science class we talked about that, though.

[BmorePat87]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11/crashing-boards-neuroscientist-maureen-condic-brings-different-voice-nsf-oversight-body

"Appearing before the House Judiciary Committee’s civil justice panel, Condic asserted that an 8-week-old fetus can experience pain, a claim many fetal development experts dispute. But Condic appeared to deliver a contradictory message in the course of her testimony.

“There is universal agreement that pain is detected by the fetus in the first trimester,” she told lawmakers midway through her opening statement. “The debate concerns how pain is experienced, that is, whether a fetus has the same pain experience a newborn or an adult would have.” In her closing comments, however, she asserted, “It is entirely uncontested that a fetus experiences pain in some capacity from as early as 8 weeks.”

Many neuroscientists would draw a distinction between how spinal cord cells react to a pain stimulus in an 8-week-old fetus, as Condic initially described, and the point at which there’s a cognitive reaction to pain (which was the rationale for the legislation). Asked about the difference, Condic says she was a last-minute substitute for another witness and 'maybe I wrote [her testimony] wrong.'"

Her views are interesting. She seems to think most scientists are pretentious and try to insert themselves too much in politics, believing they need to be limited to their research and not try to influence policy just because they're expert on the science itself. The non-experts needs to decide how to use it. Describes herself as apolitical but has been happy to lend her opinions to political debates to promote her own ideology.

[jj22]

People will face their own consequences for the decision they make. We as people need to worry about the decisions we make. Even slaves would chew poisonous roots to abort babies when raped by their masters. People will find a way no matter what the law states.

Too many people try to tell others how to live their life (even as they get caught pursuing under-aged kids, paying for mistresses abortions, cheating on wives etc).

God's true gift to us was free will. Republicans need to stop spending their time trying to take that away. Or at the very least don't force these women to have babies, and then turn their back on them and cut programs that will help them take care of those kids. Poor/hungry kids feel excruciating pain as well. They don't care about that.

Pro life when the women is pregnant. Pro Choice when the women asks for help (it was your choice to get pregnant).

[Vas Deferens]

My crisper babies are going to dominate all these poor non-aborted babies anyway. It will be cheaper to enslave some serfs than invest in robotics.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-19-2018, 12:06 PM)jj22 Wrote: People will face their own consequences for the decision they make. We as people need to worry about the decisions we make. Even slaves would chew poisonous roots to abort babies when raped by their masters. People will find a way no matter what the law states.

Too many people try to tell others how to live their life (even as they get caught pursuing under-aged kids, paying for mistresses abortions, cheating on wives etc).

God's true gift to us was free will. Republicans need to stop spending their time trying to take that away. Or at the very least don't force these women to have babies, and then turn their back on them and cut programs that will help them take care of those kids. Poor/hungry kids feel excruciating pain as well. They don't care about that.

Pro life when the women is pregnant. Pro Choice when the women asks for help (it was your choice to get pregnant).

But if you think the life growing inside is also a life, you aren't against abortion because you are trying to tell others how to live their lives.  Too many times it's framed (because it works) as men trying to control women, when it really is about trying to protect the baby.  I'd rather people argue about whether it's a life and does that life's rights supersede the mother's than the laziness of just saying it's men wanting to control women.  Just like pro-choice people shouldn't be written off as people who   like butchering babies.  

[Belsnickel]

(12-19-2018, 04:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: But if you think the life growing inside is also a life, you aren't against abortion because you are trying to tell others how to live their lives.  Too many times it's framed (because it works) as men trying to control women, when it really is about trying to protect the baby.  I'd rather people argue about whether it's a life and does that life's rights supersede the mother's than the laziness of just saying it's men wanting to control women.  Just like pro-choice people shouldn't be written off as people who   like butchering babies.  

I started to say I agree, but I don't know. Even if you are arguing that the gestating cells are life, you're still trying to insert yourself/the government into someone's personal life and gain control over that in some way. This isn't even touching on the patriarchal origins of the anti-abortion movements. I would agree that boiling the argument down to that level is lazy, because it's always lazy to go that route, but it isn't rooted in inaccurate ideas. That being said, I doubt most people that would say it are able to articulate it in this way.

[NATI BENGALS]

(12-19-2018, 04:56 PM)michaelsean Wrote: But if you think the life growing inside is also a life, you aren't against abortion because you are trying to tell others how to live their lives.  Too many times it's framed (because it works) as men trying to control women, when it really is about trying to protect the baby.  I'd rather people argue about whether it's a life and does that life's rights supersede the mother's than the laziness of just saying it's men wanting to control women.  Just like pro-choice people shouldn't be written off as people who   like butchering babies.  

Yes you are. Find a way to get it out and grow it yourself. Or else you are telling someone else what they can do with their body. Take out that fact it is growing inside someones body and I would reconsider my position.

[*bfine32*]

If we abort a female fetus don't we deny her right to have an abortion later in life?

Stupid government controlling what females can do with their bodies.

[jj22]

I'd support Republicans pro life argument if they didn't turn around and abandon the baby once it's born by calling their mom Welfare Queens and trying to cut programs like CHIP and WIC.

If we as a nation can't afford to help the mother/baby then we should stay of of the decision to have the baby.

If life begins at conception, it surely doesn't end at birth.

But it's not about the baby, that's why they are against the morning after pill and even birth control in many cases.