Report: Trump called WWI Marines buried in France "losers" and "suckers"

[BmorePat87]

(09-04-2020, 03:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Ahem:


Also:

Note that it's not conservative respondents but AMERICAN respondents.

None of this changes what I said. Journalistic standards are quite high. A bad graphic doesn't change that fact. 

It's interesting that you left out the ideological breakdown from the same poll...

[BmorePat87]

Trump further denied the report and said he was so upset he couldn't go to the cemetery that he called Melania at home to tell her.

Except... she was there in France with him

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/politics/trump-france-memorial-cemetery-visit-fact-check/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-09-04T19%3A34%3A01&utm_source=fbCNNp&fbclid=IwAR0nQLXTrOHQmx8Cksw1rc9mFD1e3Pbhkakmubp0WqVhEdoqAerOdpdBdCc

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2020, 05:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Trump further denied the report and said he was so upset he couldn't go to the cemetery that he called Melania at home to tell her.

Except... she was there in France with him

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/politics/trump-france-memorial-cemetery-visit-fact-check/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-09-04T19%3A34%3A01&utm_source=fbCNNp&fbclid=IwAR0nQLXTrOHQmx8Cksw1rc9mFD1e3Pbhkakmubp0WqVhEdoqAerOdpdBdCc

Trump thinks he lives in France, the man clearly has stage Q dementia. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-04-2020, 05:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Trump further denied the report and said he was so upset he couldn't go to the cemetery that he called Melania at home to tell her.

Except... she was there in France with him

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/politics/trump-france-memorial-cemetery-visit-fact-check/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-09-04T19%3A34%3A01&utm_source=fbCNNp&fbclid=IwAR0nQLXTrOHQmx8Cksw1rc9mFD1e3Pbhkakmubp0WqVhEdoqAerOdpdBdCc

Liars gonna lie.

[NATI BENGALS]

If one of my buddies from the golf cart retirement communities in Florida took a break from riding around shouting white power and told me how he saw a plane load of thugs in black headed to a city near you with bags of soup ready to throw. My god I would be a little shook too. I’ll give him a pass this time. It’s not like he has a pattern of lying or attacking people.

[Benton]

(09-04-2020, 12:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I get what you're saying but considering how low journalistic standards have sunk nowadays, I'm MORE skeptical today when it comes to "anonymous sources". 

Standards aren't low, by and large. The industry has just changed.

People don't use local journalism, which tends to have the highest standards. And with the push for online news, infotainment sites get the most traffic. Not because of higher standards, but because people like to hear what they already believe. End of the day, real journalism costs money. Consumers aren't as interested in paying for it, and advertisers only view how many clicks, so they tend to spend money with infotainment sites, even if they don't realize it.

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2020, 07:37 PM)Benton Wrote: Standards aren't low, by and large. The industry has just changed.

People don't use local journalism, which tends to have the highest standards. And with the push for online news, infotainment sites get the most traffic. Not because of higher standards, but because people like to hear what they already believe. End of the day, real journalism costs money. Consumers aren't as interested in paying for it, and advertisers only view how many clicks, so they tend to spend money with infotainment sites, even if they don't realize it.

For-profit news.  

[Benton]

(09-04-2020, 08:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: For-profit news.  

That's an issue, but maybe not as much as one might think. News has always been for-profit. Here anyway.

The difference is the scope of things. 

12 years or so ago we had a death notice come in for a local enlisted kid. Two small town papers (each 6,000ish circulation). MY competitor ran it, I didn't. I couldn't confirm it with the Army. My publisher called and asked why I hadn't run it, and I told him I couldn't confirm it. He chewed me out, assuming the other paper had. Turns out, the kid wasn't KIA. After the paper published it online, the family called and found out he was alive and well. Lot of upset people.

The next time it happened, the other paper took the steps to verify it. 

Why? Because that's what happens when you have to look your customers in the eye. 

Rupert Murdoch or Ted Turner or the shareholders of NBC don't have that same issue. Sure, there's the occasional angry subject who has enough clout, but you aren't going to see McConnell screaming at David Chalain at a $5,000 a plate dinner or Michelle Obama threatening to slash Murdoch's tires. They enjoy a significant degree of separation from the chaos they cause.

[Dill]

(09-04-2020, 03:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Journalistic standards aren't low, conservatives have just ramped up their rhetoric against journalism to the point that they believe journalistic standards are low because that sort of lie is required in order to make the rhetoric work. 

This 

The irony is that standards are low for the White House and its news arm, Fox--the source of the "fake news" charges.

[Dill]

(09-03-2020, 11:52 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I'm not saying he didnt say this, but when the sources are anonymous I am skeptical.

But the bit about McCain, it is believable based on what he said in 2015 in regards to McCain.
“He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people who weren’t captured.”

Now that was actually said. He also made similar remarks about George H. Bush getting shot down in WW2, because the Bushes criticized him.

It just keeps adding up. In his 1993 pre-nup with Marla Maples, Tiffany is cut off if she ever joins the military before 21 (or if she takes any job).

https://www.newsweek.com/tiffany-trump-child-support-payments-would-have-been-stopped-donald-if-she-joined-military-prenup-1442203

In his niece's recent book on Trump, she says that he threatened to disinherit Donald jr. when he considered joining the military.

The Atlantic has high journalistic (as well as literary) standards.  Far higher than the president's. I find it very hard to believe those sources were not vetted and re-vetted and then double-checked by editors.  I'd be skeptical of an article making those claims about Obama or Biden, of course, because neither of them has publicly disparaged military members as Trump has. 

As far as the quotes from the French trip, corroboration keeps coming in from different sources.

Picking a fight with Gold Star parents.  Who does that?  But Trump "hits back harder!" as his supporters say.

[Dill]

(09-04-2020, 09:45 PM)Benton Wrote: 12 years or so ago we had a death notice come in for a local enlisted kid. Two small town papers (each 6,000ish circulation). MY competitor ran it, I didn't. I couldn't confirm it with the Army. My publisher called and asked why I hadn't run it, and I told him I couldn't confirm it. He chewed me out, assuming the other paper had. Turns out, the kid wasn't KIA. After the paper published it online, the family called and found out he was alive and well. Lot of upset people.

The next time it happened, the other paper took the steps to verify it. 

Which paper sold more that day? 

Asking for a friend in the WH. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-04-2020, 10:27 PM)Dill Wrote: It just keeps adding up. In his 1993 pre-nup with Marla Maples, Tiffany is cut off if she ever joins the military before 21 (or if she takes any job).

https://www.newsweek.com/tiffany-trump-child-support-payments-would-have-been-stopped-donald-if-she-joined-military-prenup-1442203

In his niece's recent book on Trump, she says that he threatened to disinherit Donald jr. when he considered joining the military.

The Atlantic has high journalistic (as well as literary) standards.  Far higher than the president's. I find it very hard to believe those sources were not vetted and re-vetted and then double-checked by editors.  I'd be skeptical of an article making those claims about Obama or Biden, of course, because neither of them has publicly disparaged military members as Trump has. 

As far as the quotes from the French trip, corroboration keeps coming in from different sources.

Picking a fight with Gold Star parents.  Who does that?  But Trump "hits back harder!" as his supporters say.

Ethos just isn't going to work, when you're accusing the POTUS of maligning fallen soldiers.  Whoever made those statements, needs to step up and account for them.

[Dill]

(09-04-2020, 10:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ethos just isn't going to work, when you're accusing the POTUS of maligning fallen soldiers.  Whoever made those statements, needs to step up and account for them.

Sunset, who needs to step up and account for those remarks about McCain and H.W.? They weren't about fallen pilots, but jeez, what could be so surprising about the other allegations if he is willing to say what he did about people who were shot down in combat? And in McCain' case also imprisoned?

By Trump's standards, the posthumous Medal of Honor recipient who gave his life for his comrades was a "sucker" as well as a loser.  

Let me ask you this though. Suppose people do start "stepping up" as you request. Will that have any effect at all on your view of Trump?  If Trump shot a veteran on 5th Avenue, would it make a difference?  Trump has a way of challenging his supporters integrity like no other politician.

In the meantime, consider ALL of Trump's actions and statements--does he seem like a guy who puts country, family, or even friends above himself?  Isn't it fair to say that his first question in any transaction is what he will get out of it? E.g., he constantly uses that standard in assessing domestic and foreign policy. 

[Benton]

(09-04-2020, 10:33 PM)Dill Wrote: Which paper sold more that day? 

Asking for a friend in the WH. 

Probably them.

Flash forward, both papers are now under the same corporate media umbrella. Each has one reporter an 0 standards.

[Bengalzona]

Interesting read:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/corroboration-atlantic-report-trump-troops-soldiers-losers-cemetary-amputees.html



And remember folks: Veterans Day (a.k.a. "Suckers and Losers Day" in some quarters) is November 11.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-04-2020, 10:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ethos just isn't going to work, when you're accusing the POTUS of maligning fallen soldiers.  Whoever made those statements, needs to step up and account for them.

Trump insulted all POWs. Trump disparaged Senator McCain’s military service. Trump called GEN Mattis the world’s most overrated general. He publicly humiliated GEN McMasters. Trump publicly insulted ADM McRaven. Trump publicly insulted active duty soldier COL Vindman and ruined not only his career, but his brother’s as well. Trump publicly insulted all the generals when he claimed to know more than the generals in Iraq and Afghanistan. Trump publicly insulted a Gold Star family. Trump repeatedly insulted true Republican and decorated combat veteran Robert Mueller for doing his duty Trump’s administration appointed him to do. Trump called former Air Force COL and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham one of the dumbest human beings. Trump called GEN John Allen a failed general. Trump publicly insulted GEN McChrystal. Trump called combat decorated Marine Rep. Seth Moulton a coward. Trump insulted Marine GEN John Kelly. Trump ridiculed Navy CPT Crozier. Both the Sec of the Navy and the SEALs commander retired over Trump’s interference in military justice.

Insults are Trump’s stock and trade. Including insulting our nation’s heroes. These allegations are totally in keeping with Trump’s character and past behavior. To believe otherwise is completely naive.

[BmorePat87]

(09-05-2020, 12:12 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Trump insulted all POWs. Trump disparaged Senator McCain’s military service. Trump called GEN Mattis the world’s most overrated general. He publicly humiliated GEN McMasters. Trump publicly insulted ADM McRaven. Trump publicly insulted active duty soldier COL Vindman and ruined not only his career, but his brother’s as well. Trump publicly insulted all the generals when he claimed to know more than the generals in Iraq and Afghanistan. Trump publicly insulted a Gold Star family. Trump repeatedly insulted true Republican and decorated combat veteran Robert Mueller for doing his duty Trump’s administration appointed him to do. Trump called former Air Force COL and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham one of the dumbest human beings. Trump called GEN John Allen a failed general. Trump publicly insulted GEN McChrystal. Trump called combat decorated Marine Rep. Seth Moulton a coward. Trump insulted Marine GEN John Kelly. Trump ridiculed Navy CPT Crozier. Both the Sec of the Navy and the SEALs commander retired over Trump’s interference in military justice.

Insults are Trump’s stock and trade. Including insulting our nation’s heroes. These allegations are totally in keeping with Trump’s character and past behavior. To believe otherwise is completely naive.

It's also in line with the story about Trump questioning to John Kelly, as he stood over the grave of Kelly's son, why soldiers risk their lives for their country. He does not understand doing something that does not benefit yourself in some way. 

[Belsnickel]

A Fox News correspondent corroborated part of the story with her own sources, then Trump demanded Fox fire her: https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-correspondent-confirms-trump-said-dead-us-troops-losers-2020-9

Two former sr Trump admin officials confirm .@JeffreyGoldberg reporting that President Trump disparaged veterans and did not want to drive to honor American war dead at Aisne-Marne Cemetery outside Paris.

— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) September 4, 2020

[NATI BENGALS]

But but but he wanted tanks for his parade and we were going to have a grand military parade like all the great countries do such as Russia NK Saudi Arabia ya know.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-05-2020, 06:59 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: A Fox News correspondent corroborated part of the story with her own sources, then Trump demanded Fox fire her: https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-correspondent-confirms-trump-said-dead-us-troops-losers-2020-9

Two former sr Trump admin officials confirm .@JeffreyGoldberg reporting that President Trump disparaged veterans and did not want to drive to honor American war dead at Aisne-Marne Cemetery outside Paris.

— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) September 4, 2020

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