Rubio: Life begins at conception

[StLucieBengal]

(08-07-2015, 10:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Wait... your response to me pointing out that someone is correct in stating that legal abortions are safer is to state that there will still be some back alley, illegal, unsafe abortions even if abortion is legal?


LOL??

Are you arguing that abortions should be illegal because illegal abortions still happen even if it is legal? I'm not going to assume you are.

Legal abortions still lack the cleanliness standards you get in a hospital surgical theatre. So you can say any type of serious procedure done without those standards have a "back alley" feel to them.

[BmorePat87]

(08-07-2015, 11:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Legal abortions still lack the cleanliness standards you get in a hospital surgical theatre.  So you can say any type of serious procedure done without those standards have a "back alley" feel to them.

So you're suggesting that legal abortions in the US are essentially just back alley procedures?

Do you want me to bring up those numbers again?

[*bfine32*]

There once was a time in this country when slavery was legal. This was because the rights of the slave owner were considered to be more important than those of his property.

The Republicans got that one fixed; hopefully, we can soon do the same for the unborn child.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-07-2015, 11:48 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So you're suggesting that legal abortions in the US are essentially just back alley procedures?

Do you want me to bring up those numbers again?

Serious medical procedures done in an unsanitary enviornment is the exact definition of a back Alley abortion.

Post whatever you like, explain why abortion facilities are allowed to have these procedures in unsanitary conditions. That's the exact argument used against making abortions illegal. "You will just get back alley abortions where is your coat hangers"

[*michaelsean*]

(08-07-2015, 11:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Ask him. I'm assuming he's just pointing out a benefit of not infringing on a right, given the fact that anyone who is pro-choice believes that it's a right.

It's like saying that legalizing gay marriage will be good for the economy as weddings add money to the economy. That's obviously not why it should be legal, it's just a benefit for respecting that right.

Now it's ask him? You are the one who said he didn't say what we suggested.

Don't tell me you haven't heard "If you make it illegal you will force women into back alleys". That's advocating.

[CKwi88]

(08-07-2015, 11:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Well said Cupcake.   I agree with you.

Then I'll ak you the same question. No exceptions?

[BmorePat87]

(08-07-2015, 11:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Serious medical procedures done in an unsanitary enviornment is the exact definition of a back Alley abortion.    

Post whatever you like, explain why abortion facilities are allowed to have these procedures in unsanitary conditions.     That's the exact argument used against making abortions illegal.    "You will just get back alley abortions where is your coat hangers"

A woman has a 1 in 166,667 chance of dying because of an abortion in the US. She has a 1 in 454 chance of dying because of a "back alley" abortion across the planet.


You're not doing a good job showing how American legal American abortions are just "back alley" procedures other than your belief that they're all done in unsanitary conditions. 

[BmorePat87]

(08-08-2015, 12:03 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Now it's ask him?  You are the one who said he didn't say what we suggested.  

Don't tell me you haven't heard "If you make it illegal you will force women into back alleys".  That's advocating.

Because I am capable of reading. Nowhere did he say "abortions should be legal because they're safer when they're legal".

You asked why he even mentioned it. I can't read his mind, only his post. Nowhere did he say "I am pointing this out because...". Ask him if you're curious.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-08-2015, 12:06 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Then I'll ak you the same question. No exceptions?

Exceptions are so rare. I don't think rape or incest needs an exception. Morning after pill sorts both out, plus there needs to be legal follow up for any broken laws.

Mother's life is less than 1%, so it's super rare.

As I type this, normally I would say that I would save my wife, but she is right here and I just asked her, she told me that if saved her over our child she would be very upset. And that our child is more important than her life.

So I guess my family's position is no exceptions.

The issue with the life of the mother exception is that it's easily subverted. As it was with Dr Tiller.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-08-2015, 12:08 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: A woman has a 1 in 166,667 chance of dying because of an abortion in the US. She has a 1 in 454 chance of dying because of a "back alley" abortion across the planet.


You're not doing a good job showing how American legal American abortions are just "back alley" procedures other than your belief that they're all done in unsanitary conditions. 

Padding your numbers with 3rd world nations who live on dirt floors.

[CKwi88]

(08-08-2015, 12:26 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Exceptions are so rare.   I don't think rape or incest needs an exception.   Morning after pill sorts both out, plus there needs to be legal follow up for any broken laws.    

Mother's life is less than 1%, so it's super rare.  

As I type this, normally I would say that I would save my wife, but she is right here and I just asked her, she told me that if saved her over our child she would be very upset.  And that our child is more important than her life.    

So I guess my family's position is no exceptions.  

The issue with the life of the mother exception is that it's easily subverted.   As it was with Dr Tiller.

And does it apply to children outside the womb as well? 

[BmorePat87]

(08-08-2015, 12:28 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Padding your numbers with 3rd world nations who live on dirt floors.

As opposed to your numbers? Oh...

[StLucieBengal]

(08-08-2015, 12:36 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: And does it apply to children outside the womb as well? 

Would I save my child over my wife? like my 5 year old?

[StLucieBengal]

(08-08-2015, 12:40 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: As opposed to your numbers? Oh...

Countries with low to zero standards can't be compared. It's as absurd as counting them in pollution stats like that climate change people do to make it look like we are actually hurting the enviornment.

[CKwi88]

(08-08-2015, 12:42 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Would I save my child over my wife?  like my 5 year old?

Do the same rights you are affording to the "fertilized egg" apply to children outside the womb?

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-07-2015, 10:38 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Is this universal? Or do you allow exceptions?

Of course there are exceptions. I'm not insane enough to state that a woman should carry a baby that will kill her.  The health of the mother trumps the health of the unborn child, in my opinion.

And also for rape.  Although it's an unfortunate situation that the child's life will be terminated, it's a much worse situation that the woman was forced into the pregnancy to begin with.

Women that become pregnant and then just decide that it isn't for them should not be allowed to kill the child because they regret their decisions.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-08-2015, 12:44 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Do the same rights you are affording to the "fertilized egg" apply to children outside the womb?

Why wouldn't they?

[Beaker]

(08-08-2015, 12:43 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Countries with low to zero standards can't be compared.  

Why not? Unsanitary is unsanitary no matter what country youre in.

[Yojimbo]

(08-07-2015, 10:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well I'm pretty sure buying drugs off the street is more dangerous that going to your local Walgreens. So perhaps we should just allow druggies to go into drug stores and take what they want legally.

Now perhaps you will see why I find the logic of "if we make it illegal criminals could be in danger" silly.

That's exactly what reformers and some doctors say should happen. Legalize all drugs. Sell them at a pharmacy. If a person has an addiction problem, send them to rehab, not prison. No more street corners dealers with guns. No more meth labs that explode. And there is absolutely no proof that doing this leads to more drug users, that is a myth and scare tactic. I also believe the only people that should be in prison are violent criminals. All non-violent offenses should be punished with fines and community service.

"Nearly three-fourths (72.1%) of the population are non-violent offenders with no history of violence"
http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/inc_federalprisonpop.pdf

I know, off topic.

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2015, 12:47 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Women that become pregnant and then just decide that it isn't for them should not be allowed to kill the child because they regret their decisions.

So the government should be given the power to strip someone of their liberty even though they have committed no crime?