Saudi's threaten U.S. If congress passes 9/11 bill

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 10:24 AM)Benton Wrote: But that's the problem with gold standard. You know the dollar is going to be worth a dollar. It's an amount that reflects what other currencies are worth through exchange. It has a slowly adjustable value. Gold doesn't. Large investors can have an impact on it's value. They can't with the dollar.

 I don't even know where to start here. 

Gold will never lose its purchasing power.  The dollar? Not so much. 

The reason we abandoned the gold standard was so money managers could keep our nation in perpetual debt. The reason we have paper money is because it's easier to handle and that's ok. But it says right on the damn thing that it's a promise to pay a debt. I wonder what that means? 

If it's just a promise to pay the debt; pay it with what? And how can we promise to pay a debt with a promise to pay a debt?

Fractional reserve. Look it up. 

The Fed prints 1k and loans it to a bank at interest. But the bank is then allowed to loan 10k, all because they have 1k in real money. It's a god damn Ponzi scheme. That's our system. 

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 11:08 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:   If that's not enough, just YouTube the countless instances where CT's are just run through the mud on mainstream news, often by those with political clout.  

They only get run through the mud when they are clearly wrong and dangerous.

turning people against vaccines are a perfect example of the damage conspiracy theories can cause.  Same with fluorine in drinking water. 
 
Tim McVeigh killed over a hundred children because of a conspiracy theory, and the "Sovereign Citizen" movement has inspired criminal activity and multiple murders over the last 10 years here in the US.

Not all conspiracy theories are dangerous, but some definitely are.  Especially when the gun manufacturers jump aboard and ratchet up the fear mongering to increase sales.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They only get run through the mud when they are clearly wrong and dangerous.

Vaccines are a perfect example of the damage conspiracy theories can cause.  Same with fluorine in drinking water. 
 
Tim McVeigh killed over a hundred children because of a conspiracy theory, and the "Sovereign Citizen" movement has inspired criminal activity and multiple murders over the last 10 years here in the US.

Not all conspiracy theories are dangerous, but some definitely are.

 
Like 9/11 truthers? That dangerous lot. 


Vaccinations? Meh. My son is vaccinated so I don't really have a dog in that fight. But courts in other countries are allowing cases to come through. Not here. We just pay hush money. 





I doubt you know much about sovereign citizens. The vast majority of them are peaceful and yes, law abiding. Nevertheless you're still painting CT's with that broad brush. 

[SteelCitySouth]

(04-19-2016, 11:49 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  

Vaccinations? Meh. My son is vaccinated so I don't really have a dog in that fight. But courts in other countries are allowing cases to come through. Not here. We just pay hush money. 

Oh stop it.  this is just complete garbage.  The morons that believe vaccines either cause autism, or don't do what they are purported to do are just that morons.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 11:52 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Oh stop it.  this is just complete garbage.  The morons that believe vaccines either cause autism, or don't do what they are purported to do are just that morons.

Um, what did I start? I said my son is vaccinated. I'm just stating the facts. And those are that other countries are allowing cases to be heard and that our government has paid off families. Don't kill the messenger. 

Besides, I really don't wanna debate particular conspiracies. I just want to defend our right to have them. And I'd also like to point out that I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist. I am a conspiracy analyst, as someone once said. 

[SteelCitySouth]

(04-19-2016, 11:49 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  Vaccinations? Meh. My son is vaccinated so I don't really have a dog in that fight. But courts in other countries are allowing cases to come through. Not here. We just pay hush money.

(04-19-2016, 11:59 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Um, what did I start?

 And I'd also like to point out that I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist. I am a conspiracy analyst, as someone once said. 

Right there...Stop it.  I'd also like to point out that that statement makes you a CT not a CA....

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 12:04 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Right there...Stop it.  I'd also like to point out that that statement makes you a CT not a CA....

Are you really gonna make me ***** link the story?


Well here ya go

http://time.com/3995062/vaccine-injury-court-truth/

I'm sure you'll find the content in your favor and we can debate that at another time. Still, there you have it. 

As an aside, looks like there may not be much to my statement that foreign courts are having an impact on This debate. Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight so I haven't really looked into it much. 

No. No it doesn't. Proof in my last sentence. 

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 11:49 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I doubt you know much about sovereign citizens. The vast majority of them are peaceful and yes, law abiding. Nevertheless you're still painting CT's with that broad brush. 

I know all about sovereign citizens.  I have had to deal with them in criminal court.  

Every sovereign citizen I have ever met prides himself on screwing with the system, and you can not deny that they have killed many people.  Terry Nichols was a sovereign citizen.  The last time I looked there have been at least a dozen police officers killed since 2000 by sovereign citizens who claimed they were above the law.  But most of the damage they do is through frivolous civil matters.

If you believe they are mostly law abiding citizens then you are the one who does not know much about them.  It is a badge of honor for them to fight against the system.  Some of them even go out of their way to cause trouble just to assert their beliefs.

[SteelCitySouth]

(04-19-2016, 12:29 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Are you really gonna make me ***** link the story?


Well here ya go

http://time.com/3995062/vaccine-injury-court-truth/

I'm sure you'll find the content in your favor and we can debate that at another time. Still, there you have it. 

As an aside, looks like there may not be much to my statement that foreign courts are having an impact on This debate. Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight so I haven't really looked into it much. 

No. No it doesn't. Proof in my last sentence. 

I sometime forget how vague you tend to be when making statements and that I should ask for clarity prior to discussing things with you.  Your statement about hush money is about payments to people who represent less that a remote fraction of the total population of vaccinated that had a sever reaction to the vaccinations.  It is a settlement which is payed out to reduce the court costs which would exceed the inevitable pay out.  That being said, when the topic of antivaxers is brought up and you throw out a statement like that it causes others to think you are implying that the government is paying hush money to cover up the LARGER argument about the efficacy of the vaccine and whether or not it causes autism.

Maybe you should link your story in the first post so we understand that you aren't talking about instead of making vague statements.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 12:29 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Are you really gonna make me ***** link the story?


Well here ya go

http://time.com/3995062/vaccine-injury-court-truth/

I'm sure you'll find the content in your favor and we can debate that at another time. Still, there you have it. 

Thanks for the link


"But the anti-vaxxers are utterly wrong in their interpretation of what the numbers mean. And in fact, the numbers prove that vaccines are as safe as the medical community says they are. Understanding why that’s so means going beyond the tired alarmism and looking at the facts."


Why can't we have the discussion right now?

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 11:59 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote:  I just want to defend our right to have them. 

You have that right.  But when conspiracy theories lead to people being killed there have to be consequences.

Some suggestions to curb conspiracy theories are draconian and way over the line, but on the other hand we can't just sit by and allow disinformation to damage innocent people.

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 12:04 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Right there...Stop it.  I'd also like to point out that that statement makes you a CT not a CA....

Rep.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Thanks for the link


"But the anti-vaxxers are utterly wrong in their interpretation of what the numbers mean. And in fact, the numbers prove that vaccines are as safe as the medical community says they are. Understanding why that’s so means going beyond the tired alarmism and looking at the facts."


Why can't we have the discussion right now?

Because I don't really care about anti vaxxers theories. Just because I follow conspiracies doesn't mean I subscribe to all of them. 

That article favors not a conspiracy. Nevertheless, it does show monies being paid out. What I would debate ... what I'm curious about, is why there isn't a process in place for other Remedies, outside of normal procedures. Meaning, it seems this court was set up particularly for vaccination situations. I only skimmed the article. My point was to show payoffs. So I don't know exactly what it says, word for word and like I said, I'm not really that interested in vaccination theories. I agree with the majority when it comes to vaccines, but not without at least looking into what others say about it from time to time. Whether anti vaxxers are wrong or right, I feel it's a good idea to at least have some knowledge Of what they're trying to say, even if it's a passing knowledge. I'm just not that interested in it. 

Sovereign Citizens though, I've looked deep into that. I can't say you're completely wrong about them. I can say many of them are morons with confirmation bias like no other. Still, I don t disagree with a few of their points. You Fred, have even helped me decide much of what they believe is BS. But not all of it is. And that's where I am with them. I'll take it a step further, there's many layers and different sects to these soveriegns. Some of them wouldn't even call themselves sovereign but follow many of the same principles. I could go on and on about these guys. 

I could prolly even help you to help them change their mind, next time you represent one.  

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:13 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: That article favors not a conspiracy. Nevertheless, it does show monies being paid out. What I would debate ... what I'm curious about, is why there isn't a process in place for other Remedies, outside of normal procedures. Meaning, it seems this court was set up particularly for vaccination situations. I only skimmed the article. My point was to show payoffs. So I don't know exactly what it says, word for word and like I said, I'm not really that interested in vaccination theories. I agree with the majority when it comes to vaccines, but not without at least looking into what others say about it from time to time. Whether anti vaxxers are wrong or right, I feel it's a good idea to at least have some knowledge Of what they're trying to say, even if it's a passing knowledge. I'm just not that interested in it. 

No offense, (which means I am about to say something offensive), but it is kind of hard to take you seriously when you make claims about "hush money" and then admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 01:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No offense, (which means I am about to say something offensive), but it is kind of hard to take you seriously when you make claims about "hush money" and then admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

Except for the fact that I proved my point with the link. Yeah yeah yeah. That article favors your perspective. But it provides proof of hush money, depending on ones perspective. You guys always want prove. I nearly always provide it, so maybe from now on my word can garner a bit of weight, without making me dig through the interwebs searching for something I read months and sometimes years ago. 

I'm gonna start a thread about conspiracies where I'll take on all comers about any conspiracy they want. I've avoided doing that, but it needs to be done. 

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 12:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Rep.

Lol. He's wrong and I clarified. 

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 01:33 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Except for the fact that I proved my point with the link. Yeah yeah yeah. That article favors your perspective. But it provides proof of hush money, depending on ones perspective. You guys always want prove. I nearly always provide it, so maybe from now on my word can garner a bit of weight, without making me dig through the interwebs searching for something I read months and sometimes years ago. 

The link you posted said absolutely nothing about "hush money".

Do you even know what "hush money" means?

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The link you posted said absolutely nothing about "hush money".

Do you even know what "hush money" means?

Do you think it would? Funny that ...

[fredtoast]

(04-19-2016, 02:39 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Do you think it would? Funny that ...

well, since you posted it to prove that hush money was being paid I thought it might mention something about "hush money".

But I guess that is the way the mind of a CT works.  Just pretend something is there when it isn't.

Again, how do you define "hush money".

[Devils Advocate]

(04-19-2016, 03:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: well, since you posted it to prove that hush money was being paid I thought it might mention something about "hush money".

But I guess that is the way the mind of a CT works.  Just pretend something is there when it isn't.

Again, how do you define "hush money".

In the future I'll be more mindful of the words I choose. 

You call it a settlement or judgement, I'll call it hush money. Either way money was paid set up by a special court, best I can tell.