Schumer: Trump and GOP agree to protect DACA w/o funding the Wall

[GMDino]

(09-17-2017, 11:25 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Nothing has stopped them as adults to get legal.  The fact is they do not want to be legal unless it's just given to them.   Given to them for just having a family who doesn't care about the laws of the land

(09-17-2017, 11:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Sure they do...they were brought here illegally.

That makes it harder to get into the system to become legal.  Thus: DACA.

Something that allows them to get into "a" system where they report, pay, and have to stay free of criminal activity AND give back (jobs/military service) in the hops that they will get a chance to become full citizens.

Focusing on the age ignores that they didn't come here at those ages but were brought here.

(09-17-2017, 11:03 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: You say they "just refused" to get themselves right, but this is ignoring that these people may not be fluent in the language spoken where their parents came from, they aren't going to fit in culturally (something you home spoken about many times), they may not have a status as a citizen of the country of their birth, they may not have any way to navigate the systems in that country, and I could go on and on and on. However, as this has already been pointed out several times in this thread, I know listing all of the reasons why this isn't just a "they refused to do so" is a disingenuous attack on DACA recipients and comparing their experiences to that of people like your wife that grew up in a different country and came here as an adult is inequitable will fall on deaf ears, so to speak.

(09-17-2017, 11:25 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Nothing has stopped them as adults to get legal.  The fact is they do not want to be legal unless it's just given to them.   Given to them for just having a family who doesn't care about the laws of the land

What is being displayed either a willfully ignorant "take" on the situation and DACA or just the kind of low educated voted Trump loves.

Flip a coin.

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2017, 08:14 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Congress is full of progressives and allowing these people to be citizens is a complete disaster.  

I'm glad we paid our fees and followed the laws.   Too bad progressives in congress and people like you want to just spit in the faces of anyone who followed the laws like us.

It's a joke and makes this country look terrible.

Rewarding law abiding people who want to build businesses in this country makes us look better. Sending them away to countries that aren't their home makes us look terrible. 

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 11:47 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Rewarding law abiding people who want to build businesses in this country makes us look better. Sending them away to countries that aren't their home makes us look terrible. 

They are not law abiding. Once they turned 18 they had every opportunity to get right with the law.

I literally have a client who is illegal and could easily be DACA, getting right with the law and he has to go back to Mexico for 2 months and then has his interview in Juarez. He only needs to go back to get the medical testing done.

He is taking the initiative to do the right thing and ensure he is legal.

[*bfine32*]

My view on this is the same as it always is on illegal immigration threads. What do you tell the folks that are doing it legally if you reward illegal activity?

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2017, 11:57 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They are not law abiding.   Once they turned 18 they had every opportunity to get right with the law.  

I literally have a client who is illegal and could easily be DACA, getting right with the law and he has to go back to Mexico for 2 months and then has his interview in Juarez.   He only needs to go back to get the medical testing done.    

He is taking the initiative to do the right thing and ensure he is legal.

No reason to make them jump through hoops and leave their homes for months or years at a time. I'd rather they spend that money on our economy. 

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 11:29 AM)GMDino Wrote:





What is being displayed either a willfully ignorant "take" on the situation and DACA or just the kind of low educated voted Trump loves.

Flip a coin.

Dino...... you have proven time and again you have no clue on how the immigration process works.

For you to call me ignorant, someone who has actually been through this process, filled out the paperwork, gone to interviews, paid all the fees....... maybe you should go have a word with yourself and really think about if this is a topic you are even remotely prepared to debate this with any shred of knowledge of the process or subject at hand.

Everyone's fallback is that these DACA people are victims....... they were victims until the Age of 18. Then they became willful law breakers as adults by not getting themselves right with the law. As of age of 18 they have a choice to follow the laws or be outlaws.

Under 18..... yes they have no choice. That's why we need to focus on the parents and deport.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 12:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No reason to make them jump through hoops and leave their homes for months or years at a time. I'd rather they spend that money on our economy. 

Oh you mean follow the law? They will still spend here since they are paying for their homes, etc. they are just taking a short trip to be legal.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My view on this is the same as it always is on illegal immigration threads. What do you tell the folks that are doing it legally if you reward illegal activity?

Thank you!

[GMDino]

(09-17-2017, 12:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Dino......   you have proven time and again you have no clue on how the immigration process works.  

For you to call me ignorant, someone who has actually been through this process, filled out the paperwork, gone to interviews, paid all the fees.......    maybe you should go have a word with yourself and really think about if this is a topic you are even remotely prepared to debate this with any shred of knowledge of the process or subject at hand.  

Everyone's fallback is that these DACA people are victims....... they were victims until the Age of 18.  Then they became willful law breakers as adults by not getting themselves right with the law.   As of age of 18 they have a choice to follow the laws or be outlaws.  

Under 18..... yes they have no choice.   That's why we need to focus on the parents and deport.

Actually they fall back on they didn't come here illegally...they were brought here illegally.  And there is a whole slew of people who would rather "send them back" than accept that a solution for this niche group exists.

Probably because they either a) hate/fear foreigners (not white ones) and or b) had their own issues and want life to be "fair" and to make others in a different situation have the same issues.

Neither makes sense.

Yes they have a choice.  DACA.

[GMDino]

(09-17-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My view on this is the same as it always is on illegal immigration threads. What do you tell the folks that are doing it legally if you reward illegal activity?

We tell them that there is more than one path to citizenship.  And there is a niche group that was falling through the cracks so this was created to aid them.  They still have "jump through hoops" (gotta make it "fair" for those who had a hard time, right?) but they will pay and have rules to follow in order to become citizens.

Then we tell them that we are working on a plan to make the system better and easier for the next group going through like they did.  And we're sorry it was such a burden.  Things will get better.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 12:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: Actually w fall back on they didn't come here illegally...they were brought here illegally.  And there is a whole slew of people who would rather "send them back" than accept that a solution for this niche group exists.

Probably because they either a) hate/fear foreigners (not white ones) and or b) had their own issues and want life to be "fair" and to make others in a different situation have the same issues.

Neither makes sense.

Yes they have a choice.  DACA.

DACA is against the law. Their solution to breaking the law is something unlawful?

1.File the papers with USCIS.
2.Set the interview
3.Go back to your embassy for a month or two to get medical testing done, etc.
4. Have interview
5. Get visa
6 come back to the US legally.
7. Apply for Green Card/work permit

Not hard.

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2017, 12:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Oh you mean follow the law?   They will still spend here since they are paying for their homes, etc.    they are just taking a short trip to be legal.

Short trip? In most cases, you're talking years. On the flip side, if you grant legal status through DACA, they can then be eligible for a green card, and later citizenship, while still living in the US, contributing to the economy, and paying taxes. 

The only argument against this is that you personally do not like them for what their parents did and their desire to be a part of this country.  

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My view on this is the same as it always is on illegal immigration threads. What do you tell the folks that are doing it legally if you reward illegal activity?

That the US has sympathy for children who had no control over the circumstances of their upbringing. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-17-2017, 12:31 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That the US has sympathy for children who had no control over the circumstances of their upbringing. 

So green light them to come over here and have children?

Lots of kids are born into desperate situations.

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2017, 12:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So green light them to come over here and have children?

Kids born here are citizens regardless of DACA. 

Would it green light them to bring their kids over? Possibly, it would be interesting to see the numbers since Obama announced it. 

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 12:30 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Short trip? In most cases, you're talking years. On the flip side, if you grant legal status through DACA, they can then be eligible for a green card, and later citizenship, while still living in the US, contributing to the economy, and paying taxes. 

The only argument against this is that you personally do not like them for what their parents did and their desire to be a part of this country.  

To go back, get the medical papers competed, background checks, and interview it is a month or two. You aren't eligible for a green card until they come here on the visa.

They can still contribute financially. Most people do when they take a trip for a month or two. They still pay rent, they still pay their bills, they still buy stuff on amazon. My wife did so when she went back for 3 months. She still contributed . My client is still contributing when he goes to Juarez for his interview.

The entire process is long but getting a legal visa then being able to apply for a work permit and green card is a fairly fast process.

My argument is that why does anyone get to skip all the steps that my wife and I had to do to be legal in this country? And some have sat around for 18 years.... they could have been citizens by now. The lack of motivation to follow the laws is troubling and should rightly raise numerous red flags. I have zero personal feelings for them one way or the other. I actually help people get their paperwork right who ask.

[GMDino]

(09-17-2017, 03:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: To go back, get the medical papers competed, background checks, and interview it is a month or two.    You aren't eligible for a green card until they come here on the visa.    

They can still contribute financially.   Most people do when they take a trip for a month or two.   They still pay rent, they still pay their bills, they still buy stuff on amazon.   My wife did so when she went back for 3 months.   She still contributed .   My client is still contributing when he goes to Juarez for his interview.    

The entire process is long but getting a legal visa then being able to apply for a work permit and green card is a fairly fast process.

My argument is that why does anyone get to skip all the steps that my wife and I had to do to be legal in this country?   And some have sat around for 18 years.... they could have been citizens by now.   The lack of motivation to follow the laws is troubling and should rightly raise numerous red flags.  I have zero personal feelings for them one way or the other.   I actually help people get their paperwork right who ask.

Because 1) They people eligible for DACA are in a different situation and 2) life isn't always fair.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 03:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because 1) They people eligible for DACA are in a different situation and 2) life isn't always fair.

So basically you are taking your ball and going home with this posts.

You have used an unlawful executive order as reason for law breakers to stay. That in itself is funny. But then you end it with "life isn't fair" ......

How about having the courage to just admit that you do not know the immigration process well enough to mount any type of honest defense outside of "it would be mean"

It's ok many people who are ignorant of the process get sucked in all of the time on the emotional defense of these people. The reality is that it's not a difficult process just take some time and effort and follow it through. The problem is that these people just do not care and that should raise plenty of red flags.

We all love immigrants. We just expect them to follow the laws and the process to come here and stay forever.

[GMDino]

(09-17-2017, 09:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So basically you are taking your ball and going home with this posts.  

You have used an unlawful executive order as reason for law breakers to stay.   That in itself is funny.   But then you end it with "life isn't fair" ......  

How about having the courage to just admit that you do not know the immigration process well enough to mount any type of honest defense outside of "it would be mean"  

It's ok many people who are ignorant of the process get sucked in all of the time on the emotional defense of these people.     The reality is that it's not a difficult process just take some time and effort and follow it through.    The problem is that these people just do not care and that should raise plenty of red flags.  

We all love immigrants.   We just expect them to follow the laws and the process to come here and stay forever.

Every response you have had to this topic is either "18-36 year old should have done something different" or "my wife and I had to go through the process...make everyone else do it too."

It's not a matter of *me* not knowing something...it's a matter of me understanding that there can be more than one way and if one person is complaining that someone else has a different way they think life didn't treat them fairly.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2017, 09:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Every response you have had to this topic is either "18-36 year old should have done something different" or "my wife and I had to go through the process...make everyone else do it too."

It's not a matter of *me* not knowing something...it's a matter of me understanding that there can be more than one way and if one person is complaining that someone else has a different way they think life didn't treat them fairly.

It's pointless to go into details on this topic with you, it's quite obvious you have idea what is going on when it comes to immigration. I have asked you to educate yourself in the past and even posted where to go for this information but you fail to even attempt to get educated. You just fall back on the lazy........ we should be compassionate, so everyone feels bad over something that really they shouldn't. It's an easy fix for illegals to get right..... they just have to want to do it.

That sympathy would go away if anyone just looked at what was needed to be done.