Should Marvin Lewis be in the Ring of Honor some day?

[*jason*]

(01-21-2022, 12:53 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If you're referring to who I think you are, he never said we were favored in all but 2 games.

He said we weren't big underdogs except once or twice.

People try to excuse the losses by saying we weren't favored in most of them. He's saying we weren't big underdogs much, and were even favored 2-3 times, so by sheer probability, we should've come out with at least one.

No I get it. We're not favored this week, but I expect us to win.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2022, 12:33 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I want the ring of honor reserved for Greatness. Anthony Munoz, Ken Anderson & Ken Riley and a few others.

What achievement did Marvin have. He made the playoffs. Really? That is a pretty low bar.

Ken Riley with Bengals

Never led the league in interceptions.

Zero Pro Bowls selections.

Zero All-Pro selections.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-21-2022, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ken Riley with Bengals

Never led the league in interceptions.

Zero Pro Bowls selections.

Zero All-Pro selections.

(05-07-2021, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anderson is clear #1.  After that it gets tough for me.  

I'd say Anderson and Parrish this year.  Riley and Dillon next year.  the it gets real tricky after that.  Top contenders Fulcher, Chad, Trumpy, Boomer.

So does Riley belong or not?

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2022, 12:10 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Putting in a coach that won 131 games in 16 years (8 per year) and never even once won a playoff game cheapens the "honor" completely. 

What about a player who never made a Pro Bowl team, never made an All-Pro team, and never led the league in anything?

At least Marvin won an NFL Coach of the Year Award with the Bengals.  That is more than Ken Riley did.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-21-2022, 12:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What about a player who never made a Pro Bowl team, never made an All-Pro team, and never led the league in anything?

At least Marvin won an NFL Coach of the Year Award with the Bengals.  That is more than Ken Riley did.

What about actually using context in a discussion and not picking one aspect of any particular argument and basing your opinion on it.

Does Riley belong or no?

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2022, 12:36 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So does Riley belong or not?

Yes Riley belongs.  That was my point.

Did you mean to ask SuperBowlBound! instead of me?

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2022, 12:40 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What about actually using context in a discussion and not picking one aspect of any particular argument and basing your opinion on it.

Does Riley belong or no?

I answered your question.  So will you answer mine?

Do you think Riley belongs despite his lack of accomplishments?  Does it "cheapen" the ring to have him as a member?

[*rfaulk34*]

For "anyone" wondering, here is how context works.

Marvin Lewis won more games than any other Bengals coach, by far. 

Along with that, he lost more games than any other Bengals coach and it took him 16 years to accumulate those wins which means he averaged 8 wins per year for his coaching career. 

Along with that he appeared in 7 playoff games. Losing them all. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-21-2022, 12:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I answered your question.  So will you answer mine?

Do you think Riley belongs despite his lack of accomplishments?  Does it "cheapen" the ring to have him as a member?

Yes, he belongs and no his induction would not cheapen it. 

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2022, 12:43 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: For "anyone" wondering, here is how context works.

Marvin Lewis won more games than any other Bengals coach, by far. 

Along with that, he lost more games than any other Bengals coach and it took him 16 years to accumulate those wins which means he averaged 8 wins per year for his coaching career. 

Along with that he appeared in 7 playoff games. Losing them all. 

Actually this post does not provide any "context" at all.

Context means looking at the circumstances surrounding an accomplishment in order to properly judge it.  So for anyone wondering, HERE is how context works.

Bengals..........."under Marvin".."under other coaches"
win%.........................  .518  ...............  .419
playoffs...................... 7 in 16  ............  8 in 37
% losing seasons.......  38%  ...............  59%

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2022, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ken Riley with Bengals

Never led the league in interceptions.

Zero Pro Bowls selections.

Zero All-Pro selections.

My mistake.  Riley was All-Pro his last season with the Bengals.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-21-2022, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually this post does not provide any "context" at all.

Context means looking at the circumstances surrounding an accomplishment in order to properly judge it.  So for anyone wondering, HERE is how context works.

Bengals..........."under Marvin".."under other coaches"
win%.........................  .518  ...............  .419
playoffs...................... 7 in 16  ............  8 in 37
% losing seasons.......  38%  ...............  59%

No. lol

Stop it. That's called cherry picking to support your argument. I'm done with the silliness.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Context is valuable, but for a Ring of Honor shouldn't the comparison be framed against league peers instead of Bengals peers?

Clark Harris might well be the best long-snapper in Bengals history. Throw him up there.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-19-2022, 01:28 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: My initial gut reaction was "of course", but people on here are raising good valid points.

He was a .500 coach with 0 playoff wins in 16 seasons. So what are we honoring? His ability to "rise above" ownership? Well (a) I don't see ownership agreeing with that reason and (b) Zac did in year 3 what Marv couldn't in 16.

If he gets in, it's only for longevity. Nothing else about his resume really stands out. He's our winningest coach (and losingest) because he stuck around at least 8 years longer than he should've.

That was my first reaction as well. But after reading and thinking about it I'm not so sure ? Perhaps somewhere a good bit down the road after those more deserving are in.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

No.

I can think of 30-40 off the top of my head who deserve it more:

A. Already In.
1. Paul Brown
2. Anthony Munoz
3. Ken Anderson
4. Ken Riley

B. No-Brainers
5. Boomer Esiason
6. Geno Atkins
7. Chad Johnson
8. Willie Anderson

C. Easily Before Marvin
9. Tim Krumrie
10. Andrew Whitworth
11. Reggie Williams
12. LeMar Parrish
13. Corey Dillon
14. Max Montoya
15. Isaac Curtis
16. AJ Green
17. James Brooks
18. Pete Johnson
19. Sam Wyche
20. David Fulcher
21. Bob Trumpy
22. Rodney Holman
23. Chris Collingsworth
24. Dan Ross
25. Tommy Cassanova

D. Probably Befor Marvin
26. Bob Johnson
27. Andy Dalton
28. Carson Palmer
29. Carl Pickens
30. TJ Houshmandzadeh
31. Jim LeClair
32. Eddie Edwards
33. Coy Bacon
34. Rich Braham
35. Carlos Dunlap
36. Eddie Brown
37. Paul Robinson
38. Bill Bergey
39. Jim Breech
40. Pat McInally
41. Mike Reid
42. Kevin Huber
43. Dave Lapham
44. Leon Hall

E. Save Space For Me: Current Players
1. Joe Burrow
2. Ja'Mar Chase
3. Trey Hendrickson
4. Joe Mixon
5. Tyler Boyd
6. Tee Higgins

Feel free to disagree on some or mention others (Eric Thomas, Steinbach, etc), but I think it is a pretty long list before Marvin.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-21-2022, 12:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I answered your question.  So will you answer mine?

Do you think Riley belongs despite his lack of accomplishments?  Does it "cheapen" the ring to have him as a member?

Ken Riley had 65 career INTs and a SB appearance.

This is like if Marv had 200 wins and a uh... SB appearance in his 16 seasons.

But he doesn't. He had 131 wins and 0 in the playoffs.

Marvin Lewis is more like Dre Kirkpatrick.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-21-2022, 02:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That was my first reaction as well. But after reading and thinking about it I'm not so sure ? Perhaps somewhere a good bit down the road after those more deserving are in.

Maybe after we - as a franchise - develop enough clout to get away with it?

As of now, it'd feel a LOT like when the Colts hung a banner for losing the AFC title game. Ridiculous.

[BengalsBong]

Do not lose site that this is a Bengals award not a NFL award.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-21-2022, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ken Riley with Bengals

Never led the league in interceptions.

Zero Pro Bowls selections.

Zero All-Pro selections.

Riley was All-Pro in 1983. 

He is tied for 5th all-time in interceptions. 

Is Marvin tied for 5th all-time in wins? 

[Tony]

(01-21-2022, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ken Riley with Bengals

Never led the league in interceptions.

Zero Pro Bowls selections.

Zero All-Pro selections.

Cherry picking at its finest.....