Should the government pay off student's debt?

[HarleyDog]

(07-17-2023, 11:39 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Not a bad idea. How many years ? 

4 years. Back to your military complex comment. I took that as reducing military spending, which I would hate to see right now. I would like to see tighter control on monies spent to prevent overspending on munitions and equipment but definitely don't want to reduce military spending at all. Maybe increase it.

Interesting tidbit from my weekend. My wife and I went to Ollies in Richmond and I saw a 3 pack of socks with U.S. Army written on the toe for $2.99. I thought, not a bad deal so I bought a pack. When I got home, the package read that US Army was trademarked and that all revenue made through sales of US Army licensed products would be spent for morale, welfare, and recreation programs and I thought that was cool. 

[Stewy]

(07-17-2023, 11:39 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Not a bad idea. How many years ? 

Oh I don't know.  Doesn't take much to be better than giving a hand out for free.

6 years total with at least two active?  6 active 0 reserve or 2 active 4 reserves?  Something in between?

I think there should be a difference between "I'm already in debt and need help."  Thus required active service of some length.  vs. I'm 18 and can't pay for college, so I'll do 6 years in the reserves or whatever to pay for college.

Anything is better than another friggin handout.

[XenoMorph]

No.... its not free money it will cost us 3x what they are giving away. and doesnt benefit everyone.

If anyone should be refunding students its the colleges themselves.

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-17-2023, 11:53 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: 4 years. Back to your military complex comment. I took that as reducing military spending, which I would hate to see right now. I would like to see tighter control on monies spent to prevent overspending on munitions and equipment but definitely don't want to reduce military spending at all. Maybe increase it.

Interesting tidbit from my weekend. My wife and I went to Ollies in Richmond and I saw a 3 pack of socks with U.S. Army written on the toe for $2.99. I thought, not a bad deal so I bought a pack. When I got home, the package read that US Army was trademarked and that all revenue made through sales of US Army licensed products would be spent for morale, welfare, and recreation programs and I thought that was cool. 

US defense budget : 738 billions
China : 193 billions 

Make it 730 billions with more effective costs and it will still be OK.

[HarleyDog]

(07-17-2023, 01:16 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: US defense budget : 738 billions
China : 193 billions 

Make it 730 billions with more effective costs and it will still be OK.

I don't trust the numbers the Chinese government puts out. They lie about everything. But since they surpassed us as now having the largest navy, it won't be long until they have a larger air force. As for ground troops, they probably have more in their reserves than we have in total. We've built a monster in China and must reverse course. 

[GMDino]

Sure thing.  

Then if the recruit doesn't make it you got the meat for your grinder AND don't have to pay for someone else's education.

Win-win I guess.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/04/soldier-tears-apart-join-the-military-opinion-for-getting-free-college/




I'm not against any one joining because they want to, or because they can get a "free" education (it's not free either...still our tax money paying for it).  Our daughter's ex went and got a good education in carpentry.  Then he got out and didn't go to college.  It worked for him.

And the fact that they KNOW it is nothing but a recruiting tool is one reason so many oppose other "free" programs.

But it should not be the only option for a free education.  Other countries have done it.  Why can't we?

Oh crap...I remember why.  America has this mythos of "If *I* had to do something one way everyone should.  Why should it be easier for someone else!"

So dumb.  

I always thought our job was to make it easier for the next generation.

John Adams, the 2nd President of the United States, once said:

Quote:"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.

My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain."

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/33545.html

What a country.  What a world.

[basballguy]

(07-17-2023, 09:37 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Tax the riches, tax the churches. Give less to the military complex.

Problem solved. 

Ok so you are saying it shouldn’t be free, just someone else should pay for it….got it.

And why tax churches? Tax what exactly? Their donations they receive? The donations that have already had taxes deducted from them?

[HarleyDog]

(07-17-2023, 01:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sure thing.  

Then if the recruit doesn't make it you got the meat for your grinder AND don't have to pay for someone else's education.

Win-win I guess.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/04/soldier-tears-apart-join-the-military-opinion-for-getting-free-college/




I'm not against any one joining because they want to, or because they can get a "free" education (it's not free either...still our tax money paying for it).  Our daughter's ex went and got a good education in carpentry.  Then he got out and didn't go to college.  It worked for him.

And the fact that they KNOW it is nothing but a recruiting tool is one reason so many oppose other "free" programs.

But it should not be the only option for a free education.  Other countries have done it.  Why can't we?

Oh crap...I remember why.  America has this mythos of "If *I* had to do something one way everyone should.  Why should it be easier for someone else!"

So dumb.  

I always thought our job was to make it easier for the next generation.

John Adams, the 2nd President of the United States, once said:




What a country.  What a world.

On the premise of working off your debt, what do you suggest as an acceptable solution?

[samhain]

(07-17-2023, 01:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don't trust the numbers the Chinese government puts out. They lie about everything. But since they surpassed us as now having the largest navy, it won't be long until they have a larger air force. As for ground troops, they probably have more in their reserves than we have in total. We've built a monster in China and must reverse course. 

Except for the part where they capped the number of kids they could have and "filtered out" baby girls.  

Before long they will have a small prime-age population supporting a much larger geriatric population.  Picture our social security problems and multiply them by 100. Not sustainable.  

China will implode on itself by sheer numbers unless they figure out how to make babies with no women and age them twice as fast as mother nature.

[*Nately120*]

(07-17-2023, 02:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: On the premise of working off your debt, what do you suggest as an acceptable solution?

Declaring people with student debt as being either corporations or too big to fail?

[samhain]

(07-17-2023, 08:05 AM)Dill Wrote: To whom does the profit accrue? 

Universities, book publishers, and basically anyone else that sells things to college students.

[GMDino]

(07-17-2023, 02:19 PM)basballguy Wrote: Ok so you are saying it shouldn’t be free, just someone else should pay for it….got it.

And why tax churches?  Tax what exactly?  Their donations they receive?  The donations that have already had taxes deducted from them?

Tax them because they are corporations...lol.  They get involved in politics and campaign for issues.

Tax their property.  That oughta cover a lot.

[GMDino]

(07-17-2023, 02:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: On the premise of working off your debt, what do you suggest as an acceptable solution?

If it's "free" there is no debt.

Have it cover trade schools and two-year associates too.  Cover four years but not masters and doctorates.  

[Arturo Bandini]

Another solution is to make them work as teachers for the same salary they would have in the military for 3 years.

[HarleyDog]

(07-17-2023, 02:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: If it's "free" there is no debt.

Have it cover trade schools and two-year associates too.  Cover four years but not masters and doctorates.  

Unreasonable. 

[Dill]

(07-17-2023, 02:25 PM)samhain Wrote: Universities, book publishers, and basically anyone else that sells things to college students.

Most universities are non-profit. No single university salary raises or lowers its employees' salaries with tuition

--though low enrollments may cost faculty jobs. The  incentive of administrators is to raise enrollment, not tuition.

Book publishers will get their cut no matter what tuition is--unless costs drive down enrollment. 

Student loans are generally not non-profit. Lenders cash in on higher tuition--especially with no-default loans.

[GMDino]

(07-17-2023, 03:08 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Unreasonable. 

Well that's the kind of in-depth discussion I've come to expect...lol.

May be so bold as to ask why?  Same tax money, just going to the people using it without them potentially dying just to get it.

[Dill]

(07-17-2023, 01:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don't trust the numbers the Chinese government puts out. They lie about everything. But since they surpassed us as now having the largest navy, it won't be long until they have a larger air force. As for ground troops, they probably have more in their reserves than we have in total. We've built a monster in China and must reverse course. 

How many aircraft carriers do they have?

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-17-2023, 03:48 PM)Dill Wrote: How many aircraft carriers do they have?

They have 2. US have 24 of them.

[Stewy]

(07-17-2023, 01:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sure thing.  

Then if the recruit doesn't make it you got the meat for your grinder AND don't have to pay for someone else's education.

Win-win I guess.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/04/soldier-tears-apart-join-the-military-opinion-for-getting-free-college/




I'm not against any one joining because they want to, or because they can get a "free" education (it's not free either...still our tax money paying for it).  Our daughter's ex went and got a good education in carpentry.  Then he got out and didn't go to college.  It worked for him.

And the fact that they KNOW it is nothing but a recruiting tool is one reason so many oppose other "free" programs.

But it should not be the only option for a free education.  Other countries have done it.  Why can't we?

Oh crap...I remember why.  America has this mythos of "If *I* had to do something one way everyone should.  Why should it be easier for someone else!"

So dumb.  

I always thought our job was to make it easier for the next generation.

John Adams, the 2nd President of the United States, once said:




What a country.  What a world.

Nice and complete ove reaction.

I was not suggesting anything mandatory.  It would still be volunteer.  If you CHOSE to take out loans then this is a CHOICE ot get them paid back.  Don't over dramatize.