Social Security

[Bengalzona]

How much money have you paid into Social Security during your lifetime? Are you prepared to write that money off to pay off the growing deficit?

Social Security is your money. Why should the government use it for "other" things than it was intended to be used for?

[*michaelsean*]

(10-18-2018, 10:48 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: How much money have you paid into Social Security during your lifetime? Are you prepared to write that money off to pay off the growing deficit?

Social Security is your money. Why should the government use it for "other" things than it was intended to be used for?

Can you clarify?  I know the government borrows from it, but I thought they paid interest which isn't a bad thing.  

[Bengalzona]

Mitch McConnell says our current massive deficit is due to Social Security:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/mcconnell-blames-entitlements-not-gop-for-rising-deficits

[Benton]

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/index.html

Social Security is a good thing. It's not a tax, it's (supposed to be) a protected savings plan. Why did the government force people to save? Because capitalism ran amok and lots of people lost everything they had.

We're transitioning back to that time thanks, mostly, to the GOP, where a handful of industries are steering government. Once we get completely deregulated again, we'll have another train wreck and people will start holding lawmakers accountable again. Social Security will be gone by then, either by legislation or just completely spent, but it'll be replaced by another safety network.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-18-2018, 10:57 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Mitch McConnell says our current massive deficit is due to Social Security:

https://www.facebook.com/TYTInvestigates/videos/176262849925247/UzpfSTEzNDQxODcwOTQ6MTAyMTc2OTU1MTUyNDMzNTQ/

Yeah I don't know what you do about that.  You may have to turn SS into a welfare type thing where the cap for higher earners is raised, but their benefits are capped.

[Benton]

(10-18-2018, 10:57 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Mitch McConnell says our current massive deficit is due to Social Security:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/mcconnell-blames-entitlements-not-gop-for-rising-deficits

Quote:McConnell said it would be “very difficult to do entitlement reform, and we’re talking about Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid,” with one party in charge of Congress and the White House.

The fun thing about McConnell is you never know just how he's going to blame Democrats.

When Obama was President: We have to have a Republican POTUS before we can address out of control spending!
When Trump is President: Well, we can't address our out of control spending because there aren't enough Democrats.

[Bengalzona]

(10-18-2018, 11:03 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah I don't know what you do about that.  You may have to turn SS into a welfare type thing where the cap for higher earners is raised, but their benefits are capped.

So? Any idea how much money you have paid into Social Security? Are you ready to give it to Mitch to keep that silly deficit under control?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2018, 10:48 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: How much money have you paid into Social Security during your lifetime? Are you prepared to write that money off to pay off the growing deficit?

Social Security is your money. Why should the government use it for "other" things than it was intended to be used for?

Meh, why not? It's not like Social Security is going to be there by the time I need it. Might as well put it to SOME good use.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-18-2018, 11:06 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: So? Any idea how much money you have paid into Social Security? Are you ready to give it to Mitch to keep that silly deficit under control?

No but I don't really like it how it is now.  It's not really yours because if you die at 60 you get nothing.  If you are married, your spouse gets the bigger one and the other one goes poof.  

[Bengalzona]

(10-18-2018, 11:08 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Meh, why not? It's not like Social Security is going to be there by the time I need it. Might as well put it to SOME good use.

Why wouldn't it be there?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2018, 11:17 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Why wouldn't it be there?

Since the time of George W. Bush, it's been stated by both Dems and Repubs that SS needs fixed or it will eventually collapse. As it hasn't been fixed yet, I assume the collapsing will still happen at some point.

[Yojimbo]

(10-18-2018, 11:08 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Meh, why not? It's not like Social Security is going to be there by the time I need it. Might as well put it to SOME good use.

So keeping seniors out of poverty isn’t a good use for SS? It cuts the senior poverty percentage from 50% to 12.5%. I’d say that’s a good thing.

https://www.cbpp.org/archives/4-8-99socsec.htm

[Bengalzona]

(10-18-2018, 11:24 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Since the time of George W. Bush, it's been stated by both Dems and Repubs that SS needs fixed or it will eventually collapse. As it hasn't been fixed yet, I assume the collapsing will still happen at some point.

Ah. So, the several hundred thousand that I have paid into SS (literally) will not be there for my retirement, but it is there now to help our current government pay off a deficit which they created?

[Yojimbo]

(10-18-2018, 11:24 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Since the time of George W. Bush, it's been stated by both Dems and Repubs that SS needs fixed or it will eventually collapse. As it hasn't been fixed yet, I assume the collapsing will still happen at some point.

It doesn’t entirely collapse, it just pays less. Currently it can pay 100% until 2035, then it can only pay like 80-85% for another couple of decades. By that time the majority of Baby Boomers will have probably died and SS will become much more solvent again.

[Benton]

(10-18-2018, 11:08 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Meh, why not? It's not like Social Security is going to be there by the time I need it. Might as well put it to SOME good use.

What good use?

Current deficit spending is largely created by maintaining military action against... well, somebody... and not setting aside dollars to pay for it. We had tax cuts and war spending at the same time, which led to massive deficits. 

So, we're going to not pay people the money they've given to the government in good faith that it would be there so that we can blow up mud huts in the Middle East at a cost of about $1.5 million per hut. As a side note, it costs roughly $0 to build a mud hut. Going on a side rant here, but — to date — every taxpayer  in the US has spent at least $24,000 on blowing up mud huts.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-18-2018, 11:43 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: So keeping seniors out of poverty isn’t a good use for SS? It cuts the senior poverty percentage from 50% to 12.5%. I’d say that’s a good thing.

https://www.cbpp.org/archives/4-8-99socsec.htm

We're talking about MY money going towards SS. So, no, keeping seniors out of poverty with my own money while putting myself INTO poverty is not a good thing. 

Seriously, though, I thought we were talking about the suplus or whatever it is government "borrows" from SS. That money does not go to keeping seniors out of poverty. It's used for all kinds of government programs so what's the big deal about it being used for the deficit?

For the record, I think SS moeny should stay in social security, but maybe that's just me.

(10-18-2018, 11:45 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Ah. So, the several hundred thousand that I have paid into SS (literally) will not be there for my retirement, but it is there now to help our current government pay off a deficit which they created?

The money you pay in was never going to be there, though, when you retire. SS is not a savings plan.

[6andcounting]

I work at a bank. So many people 70+ thought/were duped into believing SS was going to be their retirement plan. Most of these peoples entire estates will have to be sold off to pay creditors and that still won't cover it. It's only supposed to be a portion of retirement income - it gives the exact % on everyone's individual basis on the yearly statement . As someone who is 25 it's shocking how people who went straight into the workforce in good paying jobs with no (or little) education debt and who've lived in the same home for 30+ years that has quadrupled in value can have so little money in retirement. Obviously there can be reasonable explanations for circumstances, but so many people didn't think ahead or just figured SS and pensions were free money that would cover all their problems.

Dollar for dollar SS is the worst retirement vehicle out there and it's not even close. If it should continue to exist, it should be because of disability benefits and survival benefits for people who die while they are still working and their family will miss that persons income.

[Bengalzona]

(10-18-2018, 01:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The money you pay in was never going to be there, though, when you retire. SS is not a savings plan.

And yet it worked that way for generations...

[Bengalzona]

(10-18-2018, 12:50 PM)Benton Wrote: What good use?

Current deficit spending is largely created by maintaining military action against... well, somebody... and not setting aside dollars to pay for it. We had tax cuts and war spending at the same time, which led to massive deficits. 

So, we're going to not pay people the money they've given to the government in good faith that it would be there so that we can blow up mud huts in the Middle East at a cost of about $1.5 million per hut. As a side note, it costs roughly $0 to build a mud hut. Going on a side rant here, but — to date — every taxpayer  in the US has spent at least $24,000 on blowing up mud huts.

Yeah. I wonder what would have happened to the deficit if Roosevelt and crew had decided to do a comparable tax cut right in the middle of World War II?

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2018, 01:54 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Dollar for dollar SS is the worst retirement vehicle out there and it's not even close. If it should continue to exist, it should be because of disability benefits and survival benefits for people who die while they are still working and their family will miss that persons income.

It may not return much, but it will not disappear into thin air like stock market values or home equity.