Speaking of Nazi's: Iceland is 'Disappearing' Down Syndrome children

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/19726/speaking-nazis-iceland-disappearing-down-syndrome-john-nolte

Actually surprised this wasn't a thread. Also a bit concerning that it wasn't .... since this is actual nazi behavior.

Quote:Speaking Of Nazis... Iceland Is 'Disappearing' Down Syndrome Children.

Iceland "eradicating" Down syndrome through targeted and systemic murder is just one horror story at work here. The other is a major news organization CBS News celebrating such an evil.

August 15, 2017 390.4k views
Fashion Model Amanda Booth on the red carpet with her son Micah Quinones 2 at the at Global Down Syndrome Foundation's 2016 'Be Beautiful Be Yourself' at the Hyatt Regency Denver at the Colorado Convention Center on November 12, 2016 in Denver, Colorado.
Thomas Cooper/Getty Images
​The CBS News headline makes it sound as though a medical miracle has been found: Inside the Country Where Down Syndrome is Disappearing. Imagine that! Imagine science finding a way to "disappear" Down syndrome. This is fantastic news coming out of Iceland.

How was this accomplished, you ask? Was it through the wonders of DNA research, the miracle of genetic science?

Sorry, no.

Iceland is "disappearing" Down syndrome the old-fashioned way. Murder.

No, really...

With the rise of prenatal screening tests across Europe and the United States, the number of babies born with Down syndrome has significantly decreased, but few countries have come as close to eradicating Down syndrome births as Iceland.

Since prenatal screening tests were introduced in Iceland in the early 2000s, the vast majority of women — close to 100 percent — who received a positive test for Down syndrome terminated their pregnancy.

Now, before we get to it, and believe me we are going to get to it, I want to be clear on something. Out of some misguided notion that the handicapped should not be seen as different, I am not one of those who believes we should not do everything science offers to improve the human species. If we are able to use science as a means to cure Down syndrome, deafness, blindness, depression, addiction and a host of other maladies, by all means, go for it.

For instance, those in the deaf community who rage against cochlear implants... Sorry, that is sheer madness.

But that is not what is happening in Iceland. To properly compare the two, you have to imagine a world in which we are celebrating the "disappearance" of the deaf because we are murdering the deaf, because we are — as CBS News so helpfully puts it — "eradicating" them from the womb.

Imagine if someday we are able to "disappear" from our Perfect Society the unsightly scourge of baldness, the inconvenience of the overweight, the homely, the nervous, the politically incorrect, the homosexual, the low talker, the close talker, anyone who doesn't look like Florence Henderson.

Let's be very clear about what this is — literal eugenics, not on paper, not in theory, but eugenics in practice. To "eradicate" the undesirable and inconvenient, Iceland is using science as a weapon of genocide against a specific group of human beings.

Believe it or not, the news gets impossibly worse, because this is happening right here in America:

Other countries aren't lagging too far behind in Down syndrome termination rates. According to the most recent data available, the United States has an estimated termination rate for Down syndrome of 67 percent (1995-2011); in France it's 77 percent (2015); and Denmark, 98 percent (2015). The law in Iceland permits abortion after 16 weeks if the fetus has a deformity — and Down syndrome is included in this category.

Now read this paragraph closely, embrace the monstrous subtext:

When Thordis Ingadottir was pregnant with her third child at the age of 40, she took the screening test. The results showed her chances of having a child with Down syndrome were very slim, odds of 1 in 1,600. However, the screening test is only 85 percent accurate. That year, 2009, three babies were born with Down syndrome in Iceland, including Ingadottir's daughter Agusta, who is now 7.

Oops. Sometimes one gets through!

Moreover, based on odds — ODDS! — babies are being exterminated, and how many of those "terminated" babies would not have been born with Down syndrome? Why doesn't CBS News even raise that possibility?

And now the kicker:

[Counselor Helga Sol] Olafsdottir responded [to an anti-abortion activist], "We don't look at abortion as a murder. We look at it as a thing that we ended. We ended a possible life that may have had a huge complication... preventing suffering for the child and for the family."

If this is such a moral good, isn't it odd, then, that 99.99% of those who are burdened with a "huge complication" in their life, or who suffer (disease, depression, loneliness, chronic pain) choose not to exercise this wondrous good of not existing through suicide?

Final point: This is happening to Down syndrome babies for only one reason. Unlike the rest of the handicapped community, those with Down syndrome do not have a voice, do not organize, do not express the kind of outrage that makes for good teeeveeee. This population is completely innocent, guileless, helpless and at our mercy — a fact that makes their "disappearing" all the more demonic.

Yes, demonic.

[GMDino]

this was on Facebook last week.

There is a test to see if the child has downs.  It is not forced on anyone.  It is the choice of the parent.

Abortions are not forced on anyone.  It is the choice of the parent.

Not sure how that makes it Nazi-like...but it if did I'm sure we'd have a thread filled with people defending their rights and how the people opposed to them should stop being so upset and just let them do their thing.  

[Johnny Cupcakes]

- Promotes plowing through crowds of protesters with automobiles the day that a nazi plows through a crowd of protesters, killing an innocent woman.

- Says that real nazi behavior is parents aborting embryos who have a major genetic issue.

This way of thinking is a problem.

[BmorePat87]

The source is hilarious as they claim abortion is murder with a straight face and are so desperately trying to shield actual Nazis in the US.

But this is terrible. Downs isn't a death sentence. I understand the choice of abortion (not that I like the idea) when there's a condition that will likely mean pain and suffering and a quick death. I've known countless students with downs who have gone on to have productive, semi independent lives.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-20-2017, 09:06 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: - Promotes plowing through crowds of protesters with automobiles the day that a nazi plows through a crowd of protesters, killing an innocent woman.

- Says that real nazi behavior is parents aborting embryos who have a major genetic issue.

This way of thinking is a problem.

-Says a person that supports equality and inclusiveness that thinks that ending a life is as simple a transaction as returning a pair of pants because they didn't look right..

[StLucieBengal]

(08-20-2017, 06:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: this was on Facebook last week.

There is a test to see if the child has downs.  It is not forced on anyone.  It is the choice of the parent.

Abortions are not forced on anyone.  It is the choice of the parent.

Not sure how that makes it Nazi-like...but it if did I'm sure we'd have a thread filled with people defending their rights and how the people opposed to them should stop being so upset and just let them do their thing.  

Test is only 85% accurate and it tells you if you are low or high risk. Not to mention they push the test on the mother.

It's Barbaric. And the only reason they are doing it is so the government doesn't have to pick up the lifelong medical bills.

Pretty sure no one wants a child with issues but you do not kill your children.

This is one step closer to a GATTACA scenario.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-20-2017, 09:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: -Says a person that supports equality and inclusiveness that thinks that ending a life is as simple a transaction as returning a pair of pants because they didn't look right..

I'm pro-life, Derpy McDerperson. Not fake pro-life like Republicans who no longer care about that life after birth though, I stick with them until the end. Nice assumption though?

Still, equating families making incredibly tough decisions to end the life of the embryo because of a massive birth defect that would cause a lifetime of heartache for the parents to nazi behavior is nuts.

It's especially nuts considering we have actual nazi behavior in this country, and all that some can manage is "...yeah, but".

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-20-2017, 09:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Test is only 85% accurate and it tells you if you are low or high risk. Not to mention they push the test on the mother.

It's Barbaric. And the only reason they are doing it is so the government doesn't have to pick up the lifelong medical bills.

Pretty sure no one wants a child with issues but you do not kill your children.

This is one step closer to a GATTACA scenario.

That's completely false.

Prenatal genetic screening is offered in the US and the accuracy is better than 85%. The author fails to explain this is a screening test which triggers additional, confirmatory testing such as an amniocentesis. That article is criminally misleading and is a perfect example of why the dailywire should be completely disregarded as a legitimate source of information.

[Vas Deferens]

Speaking of great countries, middle aged americans education was disappeared decades ago leading to mass ignorance and hyper obtuseness.

#INCAPABLEOFIDENTIFYINGONESOWNDEFICIENCIES

[*jason*]

(08-20-2017, 09:39 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I'm pro-life, Derpy McDerperson. Not fake pro-life like Republicans who no longer care about that life after birth though, I stick with them until the end. Nice assumption though?

Still, equating families making incredibly tough decisions to end the life of the embryo because of a massive birth defect that would cause a lifetime of heartache for the parents to nazi behavior is nuts.

It's especially nuts considering we have actual nazi behavior in this country, and all that some can manage is "...yeah, but".

My first kid was born the day after my 41st birthday. The Mrs. was 33 at the time... A few years younger than when they really suggest that you have this test for Down Syndrome. I still remember them asking us if we wanted it. I thought about it for weeks, and decided I didn't want it, because I didn't want to put myself in the position to even think about making this choice.

This "story" is trash. I'm certain that 99% of everyone who made that decision to end the pregnancy agonized over it. To paint this as some eugenics project is weak.

I don't like abortion either. Humans suck though. They are always going to pay for sex, do drugs, and act irresponsible when they face an unwanted pregnancy. There will always be abortion. There always has been. A necessary evil if there ever was one.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-20-2017, 09:06 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: - Promotes plowing through crowds of protesters with automobiles the day that a nazi plows through a crowd of protesters, killing an innocent woman.

- Says that real nazi behavior is parents aborting embryos who have a major genetic issue.

This way of thinking is a problem.

(08-20-2017, 09:39 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I'm pro-life, Derpy McDerperson. Not fake pro-life like Republicans who no longer care about that life after birth though, I stick with them until the end. Nice assumption though?

Still, equating families making incredibly tough decisions to end the life of the embryo because of a massive birth defect that would cause a lifetime of heartache for the parents to nazi behavior is nuts.

It's especially nuts considering we have actual nazi behavior in this country, and all that some can manage is "...yeah, but".

Are you sure that you're "pro anything"?  Seems to me like you alter your position, according to whatever messenger you want to attack..

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-20-2017, 10:25 PM)jason Wrote: My first kid was born the day after my 41st birthday. The Mrs. was 33 at the time... A few years younger than when they really suggest that you have this test for Down Syndrome. I still remember them asking us if we wanted it. I thought about it for weeks, and decided I didn't want it, because I didn't want to put myself in the position to even think about making this choice.

This "story" is trash. I'm certain that 99% of everyone who made that decision to end the pregnancy agonized over it. To paint this as some eugenics project is weak.

I don't like abortion either. Humans suck though. They are always going to pay for sex, do drugs, and act irresponsible when they face an unwanted pregnancy. There will always be abortion. There always has been. A necessary evil if there ever was one.

I've always really struggled with the idea of abortion. I hate the fact that it is, at times, necessary. I hate that it can make me feel like I should deny others the right to choose what they should do with their body, and I hate that the right to body autonomy makes me feel like I should be ok with terminating life.

I think that if there was a "be all, end all" vote on it, I would abstain from voting. Only because I'd be pissed at myself no matter which way I voted. I think I'd secretly be hoping that the pro-life side won though.

Either way, I've never met someone who treated abortion like it was as easy as "returning a pair of jeans".
- "What are you doing today?"
- "Oh, I'll grab some Chipotle for lunch, drop some things off at the post office, go have an abortion, then come home and catch up on Game of Thrones".
No matter how much conservatives want to push that idea, it's certainly not how it happens.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-20-2017, 11:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you sure that you're "pro anything"?  Seems to me like you alter your position, according to whatever messenger you want to attack..

Sure...I'll bite.

Which positions do I alter so often that you feel the need to bring it up?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-20-2017, 11:17 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Sure...I'll bite.

Which positions do I alter so often that you feel the need to bring it up?

Well, in your first post, directed toward the OP, you appeared to defend parents' right to abort.  Fair enough, that's your opinion.

In your second response, you herpty Mcderp me, and say that you're pro life.   Personally, I don't care what side you stand with, just remain consistent..

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-20-2017, 11:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, in your first post, directed toward the OP, you appeared to defend parents' right to abort.  Fair enough, that's your opinion.

In your second response, you herpty Mcderp me, and say that you're pro life.   Personally, I don't care what side you stand with, just remain consistent..

You see, you assumed that since I didn't paint abortion in the absolute most evil of colors, that I was an abortion proponent. There was literally zero defense there (unless you're talking about me saying that it's not nazi behavior (it's not))....I stated exactly what it is. You didn't care to ask about my opinion on the subject, you just want straight for the attack. So you got called "Derpy McDerperson" due to your incorrect assumptions....it's a standard thing I call people that assume incorrect things about me.

Get outta here with that. Apology accepted.

For the record, for anyone who is curious, and so certain posters don't get upset due to their own assumptions: I consider my self to be pro-life, although I'm conflicted on the issue. I'm probably a bit less pro-life than the average black-and-white "how could you murder a baby?" pro-lifers, but much more pro-life than the "it's out of the womb...**** it." pro-lifers...who are often the same people.

My opinions on the subject are public record on this forum, and I've stated them on more occasion than one. They may evolve a bit as I grow as a person (and I reserve that right), but I feel I've been pretty consistent on the subject.

[CKwi88]

(08-20-2017, 11:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, in your first post, directed toward the OP, you appeared to defend parents' right to abort.  Fair enough, that's your opinion.

In your second response, you herpty Mcderp me, and say that you're pro life.   Personally, I don't care what side you stand with, just remain consistent..

Not that Johnny needs me to post this, but try and think a little broader than such a narrow-minded black and white view of an insanely complex issue.


Being against the act of abortion and respecting people's right to make their own choices regarding the issue are not mutually exclusive. I'd wager it's actually the most popular ideology among Americans that abortion is terrible, most wish it never had to happen, but it does and decisions have to be made.

Just because you've always been told that pro-life and pro-choice are on different ends of the spectrum, doesn't make it true. Using a system like that serves nothing more than to make it a "us vs them" mentality, which stifles all conversation, which you've put on display in your response.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-20-2017, 11:40 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You see, you assumed that since I didn't paint abortion in the absolute most evil of colors, that I was an abortion proponent. There was literally zero defense there (unless you're talking about me saying that it's not nazi behavior (it's not))....I stated exactly what it is. You didn't care to ask about my opinion on the subject, you just want straight for the attack. So you got called "Derpy McDerperson" due to your incorrect assumptions....it's a standard thing I call people that assume incorrect things about me.

Get outta here with that. Apology accepted.

For the record, for anyone who is curious, and so certain posters don't get upset due to their own assumptions: I consider my self to be pro-life, although I'm conflicted on the issue. I'm probably a bit less pro-life than the average black-and-white "how could you murder a baby?" pro-lifers, but much more pro-life than the "it's out of the womb...**** it." pro-lifers...who are often the same people.  

My opinions on the subject are public record on this forum, and I've stated them on more occasion than one. They may evolve a bit as I grow as a person (and I reserve that right), but I feel I've been pretty consistent on the subject.

Very well, apology to you.

However, in this particular forum, it would seem to be poor form to mask one's views from post to post.  Now, go take off your shifty McClever glasses, and go re-read what you originally wrote.  (assuming that you did)  Please explain why you would want to appear to be supporting the people killing babies on only the suspicion of being down syndrome in one post, then proclaim yourself to be pro life in the next?  At the very least, that is borderline on trolling the OP.  Please stop.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(08-21-2017, 12:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Very well, apology to you.

However, in this particular forum, it would seem to be poor form to mask one's views from post to post.  Now, go take off your shifty McClever glasses, and go re-read what you originally wrote.  (assuming that you did)  Please explain why you would want to appear to be supporting the people killing babies on only the suspicion of being down syndrome in one post, then proclaim yourself to be pro life in the next?  At the very least, that is borderline on trolling the OP.  Please stop.

Ok...let's get to the heart of the issue.  

You seem to believe that me saying that aborting an embryo is not "Nazi behavior" = me saying that I support people killing an embryo. That's the problem here. There are no "masked views". I legitimately do not consider that to be Nazi behavior. You're crazy if you do. I also legitimately do not particularly agree with that choice (though the genetic disorder aspect of it makes it less clear cut).  You don't need Shifty McClever glasses to be able to see the difference here.  

Now, I think it's more than borderline trolling for you to continue painting my views in a way that you know they were not intended in an attempt to get a conversational upper hand. Please stop.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-21-2017, 12:01 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Very well, apology to you.

However, in this particular forum, it would seem to be poor form to mask one's views from post to post.  Now, go take off your shifty McClever glasses, and go re-read what you originally wrote.  (assuming that you did)  Please explain why you would want to appear to be supporting the people killing babies on only the suspicion of being down syndrome in one post, then proclaim yourself to be pro life in the next?  At the very least, that is borderline on trolling the OP.  Please stop.

The article is filled with misinformation and lies. It's anti-abortion propaganda masquerading as journalism.

Fetuses aren't aborted on a "suspicion" of Down Syndrome. If a triple screen is positive it triggers confirmatory testing such as an amniocentesis or an ultrasound. Triple screens screen for more than just Down Syndrome, but for other defects as well such as neural tube defects such as anencephaly. Do you know which group bands together less than people born with Down Syndrome? People born with incomplete to no brain. But, did the author mention them? No. Why? Because that wouldn't be effective for a propaganda piece.

You can't even call this piss poor reporting because the author is deliberately misleading the reader by omitting essential information needed to understand prenatal genetic testing. Why? Because the author isn't trying to educate you on genetic screening. The author is trying to mislead you. That's why the author is a liar.

As far as borderline trolling, posting an article which deliberately spreads blatant lies is more than borderline trolling; it is trolling. Period. Please make it stop.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-20-2017, 09:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's completely false.

Prenatal genetic screening is offered in the US and the accuracy is better than 85%. The author fails to explain this is a screening test which triggers additional, confirmatory testing such as an amniocentesis. That article is criminally misleading and is a perfect example of why the dailywire should be completely disregarded as a legitimate source of information.

That's from CBS news the video portion of this story. The test used there was 85%

Instead of worrying about the dailywire you should just take the time to look where the story originated. It would save you having to grand stand on these stories.