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[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 03:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You think that poorly of our public education system and so highly of private schools that you think giving people a choice means that they will ALL choose the far superior private schools?

No, I don't think public education funds should be spent on private schools.

[BmorePat87]

(09-21-2020, 02:47 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Except no one's calling for an end to public education. 

I was using that as an example because I am in education and SSF is in law enforcement. 


Though there absolutely is strong support amongst conservatives for reducing the size of public school systems and transfer money to other outlets, which mirrors many aspects of the defund police movement. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-21-2020, 03:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You think that poorly of our public education system and so highly of private schools that you think giving people a choice means that they will ALL choose the far superior private schools?

superior by which metrics? 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 04:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: superior by which metrics? 

Profits for shareholders or those profiting from lenders . . . like DeVos.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 03:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How do you handle being married to someone who is so ultra liberal and brainwashed?

Not sure what post I said it in, but my sister is an 11/12 Physics and Chemistry teacher in a major city in WI.  She said she doesn't even bother going into the breakroom any more because it's all anti-Trump and very liberal.  As I also said, she voiced her opinion once and the hounds of hell were released upon her.  lol.  Not allowed to have a different opinion and all that.

But, I will say, in the little town I live in (2000 pop.) I am very happy with the teachers and overall education my children are receiving.  4th and 7th grade.  We are also far removed from anything resembling a city.

[fredtoast]

(09-21-2020, 03:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Getting to decide which school your child goes to equals getting rid of public education? 

It won't "get rid of it" but it will be so poorly funded it will be practically useless.

But what position are you actually supporting regarding defunding the police?  People speak in such convoluted ways around here I sometimes can't follow what they are actually saying.  Do you think "defunding the police" means getting rid of all law enforcement officers?

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2020, 07:14 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I wonder how that public safety system would have handled that crazy dude who got shot because he chased the cop with a big knife?

Hard to say without knowing any facts.  But perhaps a mental health expert would know how to calm a person like that down.

I realize that people with mental health issues can be very dangerous, if a mental health expert can not control the situation then law enforcement could step in.

[BmorePat87]

(09-21-2020, 04:50 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Profits for shareholders or those profiting from lenders . . . like DeVos.

The data is mixed on results for a number of reasons. There some metrics that suggest slightly better performance, but what metrics should be used? The most common is standardize testing, but educators know that's not nearly as useful as non-educators make it. College graduation rates? College isn't for everyone. 

Even then, there's not a lot to suggest that private schools are inherently better. 

Do you take into account socioeconomic status? Do you take into account parent education level? These are all higher for private schools and play a huge role in a child's learning.

Private schools offer smaller class sizes because they enroll far less students. They do not have to honor or create IEP's for students with disabilities either. They can pick and chose who attends.

These are all factors that change if you accept vouchers. In states that do not require private schools to follow educational civil rights laws to get vouchers, private schools can make more money and leave the most struggling students behind. In states that would make it a stipulation, those best private schools would just not accept the vouchers. 

If you have an exodus from public to private, private needs to hire more teachers and public would lay off. Unfortunately, private pays about 30% less than public and offers fewer benefits. You teach private because you do not needs to deal with as much red tape and have smaller classrooms. If that changes, people are either going to get paid less or private schools will need to pay more, raising the cost of tuition. 

End of the day, kids in poverty won't do better in an overcrowded private school, and the childhood poverty rate is what needs to be addressed.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hard to say without knowing any facts.  But perhaps a mental health expert would know how to calm a person like that down.



I realize that people with mental health issues can be very dangerous, if a mental health expert can not control the situation then law enforcement could step in.

In this particular instance the man came out the door and immediately charged the cop with a big knife.  His sister also said he was not making any sense or something like that from what I remember.  Not much time for chit chat.

Before or after they are stabbed to death?
Are you saying a LEO should go with the mental health expert to every situation?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 05:56 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Not sure what post I said it in, but my sister is an 11/12 Physics and Chemistry teacher in a major city in WI.  She said she doesn't even bother going into the breakroom any more because it's all anti-Trump and very liberal.  As I also said, she voiced her opinion once and the hounds of hell were released upon her.  lol.  Not allowed to have a different opinion and all that.

But, I will say, in the little town I live in (2000 pop.) I am very happy with the teachers and overall education my children are receiving.  4th and 7th grade.  We are also far removed from anything resembling a city.

Sounds like your sister needs a safe space from those militant pacifist trying to give her free healthcare and redistribute the wealthy's money to her.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 08:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Sounds like your sister needs a safe space from those militant pacifist trying to give her free healthcare and redistribute the wealthy's money to her.

Nah man, she doesn't give a shit.  She laughs about it and thinks their crazy for being so hostile and unable to have a rational debate.

Right, my sister needs a safe space because the liberals can't handle a differing opinion.  She just chose to remove herself from the children and their tantrums. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-21-2020, 05:56 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Not sure what post I said it in, but my sister is an 11/12 Physics and Chemistry teacher in a major city in WI.  She said she doesn't even bother going into the breakroom any more because it's all anti-Trump and very liberal.  As I also said, she voiced her opinion once and the hounds of hell were released upon her.  lol.  Not allowed to have a different opinion and all that.

But, I will say, in the little town I live in (2000 pop.) I am very happy with the teachers and overall education my children are receiving.  4th and 7th grade.  We are also far removed from anything resembling a city.

I've lived in cities and in the country and everyone can sod off 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 08:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Nah man, she doesn't give a shit.  She laughs about it and thinks their crazy for being so hostile and unable to have a rational debate.

Right, my sister needs a safe space because the liberals can't handle a differing opinion.  She just chose to remove herself from the children and their tantrums. 

You just denied your sister needs a safe space then confirmed she needs a safe space in almost back to back sentences.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 08:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You just denied your sister needs a safe space then confirmed she needs a safe space in almost back to back sentences.

Sarcasm bro, sarcasm.  In other words it was the liberals who needed the safe space because they lost their crap when someone dared injected a difference of opinion.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 08:50 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Sarcasm bro, sarcasm.  In other words it was the liberals who needed the safe space because they lost their crap when someone dared injected a difference of opinion.

Riiiiight.  That's why she no longer goes to the break room.  Because it's so safe.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 09:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Riiiiight.  That's why she no longer goes to the break room.  Because it's so safe.

Riiiiight, it has nothing to do with not wanting to deal with closed minded, irrational people who are incapable of respectful, open minded debate.    

[*PhilHos*]

(09-21-2020, 04:04 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No, I don't think public education funds should be spent on private schools.

School choice doesn't mean that all funding will be spent on private schools. There are many good public schools out there and they could be the recipient of the choice of many parents.

(09-21-2020, 04:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: superior by which metrics? 

Don't ask me. Ask oncemoreuntothejmbreech why he thinks private schools are automatically better than public schools.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-21-2020, 06:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It won't "get rid of it" but it will be so poorly funded it will be practically useless.

But what position are you actually supporting regarding defunding the police?  People speak in such convoluted ways around here I sometimes can't follow what they are actually saying.  Do you think "defunding the police" means getting rid of all law enforcement officers?

Depends on who calling for the police to be defunded. I'm not opposed to those who want to take some law enforcement funding to help fund/increase funding to other organizations/social services to have a more nuanced response from authorities to situations that don't require a response from a man with a gun.

But, I am opposed to just disbanding or defunding the police because ACAB.

Like the Black Lives Matter movement, I understand the intent from most who use the term. The problem is the term is just not effective in getting the proper message across. 

[BmorePat87]

(09-22-2020, 11:58 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Don't ask me. Ask oncemoreuntothejmbreech why he thinks private schools are automatically better than public schools.

He never said that prior to your comment. He said that school choice funnels money to private schools. You then responded by suggesting his response meant that. 

Quote:Phil: Getting to decide which school your child goes to equals getting rid of public education?  

Once: If you're funneling public funds to private schools so people like Betsy DeVos can profit, yes.

Phil:You think that poorly of our public education system and so highly of private schools that you think giving people a choice means that they will ALL choose the far superior private schools?

That's intellectually dishonest and doesn't serve to facilitate any dialogue, just needless bickering. Come on, man. This is actually a good topic of conversation if we all want to discuss policy itself. Maybe the mods can take our comments and open a new thread?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 12:20 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He never said that prior to your comment. He said that school choice funnels money to private schools. You then responded by suggesting his response meant that. 




That's intellectually dishonest and doesn't serve to facilitate any dialogue, just needless bickering. Come on, man. This is actually a good topic of conversation if we all want to discuss policy itself. Maybe the mods can take our comments and open a new thread?

I'm being intellectually dishonest but him saying "people like Betsy DeVos" are profiting off of school choice is just fine and dandy. got it.

Please don't try to be a referee on here. It's not your job and you're not good at it.