Trump passes blame for Yemen raid to his generals: ‘They lost Ryan’

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2017, 08:47 AM)Griever Wrote: maybe next time they should plan accordingly and not rush into things

maybe next time he should also be in the situation room monitoring whats going on, instead of sleeping or tweeting about meryl streep

All signs point to the mission being well thought out, I'm not sure where you are getting the "rushed into" information.

Perhaps he should and perhaps Streep should worry about acting instead of being one of the uninformed voices that they left migrate to because she is famous. 

[GMDino]

(03-01-2017, 02:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: All signs point to the mission being well thought out, I'm not sure where you are getting the "rushed into" information.

Perhaps he should and perhaps Streep should worry about acting instead of being one of the uninformed voices that they left migrate to because she is famous. 

Boy Streep sure got under your skin for using her first amendment rights. 

(02-28-2017, 02:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think many folk misunderstand free speech.

 


Anyway....

Read more at http://www.newshounds.us/trump_blames_obama_and_generals_for_disastrous_yemen_raid_022817#wQpLvoFUqZZlvsdC.99

Quote:TRUMP:  Well, this was a mission that was started before I got here.  This was something that was, you know, just—they wanted to do.  And they came to see me and they explained what they wanted to do, the generals, who are very respected.  My generals are the most respected that we’ve had in many decades, I would—I believe. And they lost Ryan.  And I was at the airport when the casket came in, the body came in.


DOOCY:   In Dover.

TRUMP:  And it was a very sad, with the family.  And it’s a great family, incredible wife and children.  I met most of the family.
And I can understand people saying that.  I’d feel—you know, I’d feel what’s worse?
There’s nothing worse.

DOOCY:   Yes.

TRUMP:  There’s nothing worse.

But again, this was something that they were looking at for a long time doing.  And according to General Mattis, it was a very successful mission.  They got tremendous amounts of information. 

Trump only knows/says what he is told or sees on television.

I realize he is "smart" and doesn't need to hear the "same information" every day.  But maybe, just maybe, he's just not a details kind of guy.  Maybe his leadership "style" is more "Give me the overview...let someone else handle it." Followed by taking credit for the good and passing blame to on bad.

Maybe.

Maybe he's said how proud he was for being unprepared the last time he spoke at CPAC.

Maybe he's said while campaigning that he didn't need to prepare for debates.

Maybe people who "aren't defending" him just have their heads in the sand.

"Give him a chance." ™

Looks good on a t-shirt.

[Griever]

(03-01-2017, 02:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: All signs point to the mission being well thought out, I'm not sure where you are getting the "rushed into" information.

Perhaps he should and perhaps Streep should worry about acting instead of being one of the uninformed voices that they left migrate to because she is famous. 

yeah it was so well thought out that they deployed into a mine filled, and had an area that had more insurgents and more civilians than they thought was there

streep has just as much right voicing her opinion about trump as trump did about obama when he was nothing but a "celebrity"

maybe you just dont like it because streep is talking "bad" (truthfully) about your boy, president baby hands

but if it was well thought out, why is trump trying to pass the blame off onto his generals?

but trump made good on another promise that bfine should be proud of, when he said he was gonna go after terrorist and their families. he should feel really good he got a 6 year old girl killed, just because her dad was a terrorist. she was a real threat to us

[GMDino]

(03-01-2017, 02:11 PM)Griever Wrote: yeah it was so well thought out that they deployed into a mine filled, and had an area that had more insurgents and more civilians than they thought was there

streep has just as much right voicing her opinion about trump as trump did about obama when he was nothing but a "celebrity"

maybe you just dont like it because streep is talking "bad" (truthfully) about your boy, president baby hands

but if it was well thought out, why is trump trying to pass the blame off onto his generals?

but trump made good on another promise that bfine should be proud of, when he said he was gonna go after terrorist and their families. he should feel really good he got a 6 year old girl killed, just because her dad was a terrorist. she was a real threat to us

Well at least he didn't create another one that will grown up to become a terrorist because we bombed her home. 

[*bfine32*]

I am often amazed at the Military strategists that frequent this forum.  

[Griever]

(03-01-2017, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am often amazed at the Military strategists that frequent this forum.  

we know more than the generals do

lets see:

*cant refute anything:check
*make snarky comment in retaliation: check

yeah, you are Bfine right now

[hollodero]

(03-01-2017, 10:12 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Trump's picture was in the news greeting the SEAL's casket when it arrived at Dover AFB. Did the Trump administration use it as a photo op or was the press there coincidentally to take the picture?

Yeah, I go with option a). Sure. Did Trump behave good? Nope. I'm not doubting that and I deeply dislike the man. He might be very well in bad taste either and I do not intend to defend inappropriate photo ops and whatnot. He might exploit it politically by doing that (I don't know the instance you're referring to) - as do those who criticize him for the death of a navy seal.

I don't get into the whole chain of command and responsibility thing, because I really don't know. If I were president, I'd probably go with what my generals suggest; how would I, how would Trump know more details about the mission than them. When something goes wrong, that's always a risk one has to be willing to take, but I don't know about blame or responsibility. I didn't blame Hillary for Benghazi either - or thought it was her responsibility; to personally check security at the embassy or whatever. Not the same thing, but the same principle. To me.
If he "rushed" the decision or neglected risks that were not to be neglected, if the mission was unsuccesful, unnecessary or whatever - I couldn't know. It seems speculative to assume these things. I have no reason not to believe that the generals prepared the mission before him/without him and he just gave his permission.

But I too think he could have dealt with it waaay better, no doubt. Just there are around 50 billion other worse, way more troubling things about Trump out there.

Please don't hate me :)

[Bengalzona]

(03-01-2017, 01:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well if he's saying My generals and saying they came to him then isn't he taking ownership of the situation? "I sent one of my platoons on a raid last night and they lost a Soldier." Does that now mean I have shunned responsibility?

Or maybe, just maybe folks are trying to hard to play gotcha.

Personally, I would use the term "we": "We lost a soldier."

It shows you felt the loss as well and are a member of the team, even if your job is different. But apparently, "Those guys lost a soldier" works for some people.

[Griever]

(03-01-2017, 03:40 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah, I go with option a). Sure. Did Trump behave good? Nope. I'm not doubting that and I deeply dislike the man. He might be very well in bad taste either and I do not intend do defend inappropriate photo ops and whatnot. He might exploit it politically by doing that (I don't know the instance you're referring to) - as do those who criticize him for the death of a navy seal.

I don't get into the whole chain of command and responsibility thing, because I really don't know. If I were president, I'd probably go with what my generals suggest; how would I, how would Trump know more details about the mission than them. When something goes wrong, that's always a risk one has to be willing to take, but I don't know about blame or responsibility. I didn't blame Hillary for Benghazi either - or thought it was her responsibility; to personally check security at the embassy or whatever. Not the same thing, but the same principle. To me.
If he "rushed" the decision or neglected risks that were not to be neglected, if the mission was unsuccesful, unnecessary or whatever - I couldn't know. It seems speculative to assume these things. I have no reason not to believe that the generals prepared the mission before him/without him and he just gave his permission.

But I too think he could have dealt with it waaay better, no doubt. Just there are around 50 billion other worse, way more troubling things about Trump out there.

Please don't hate me :)

trump knows more about isis than the generals do

[*bfine32*]

(03-01-2017, 03:47 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Personally, I would use the term "we": "We lost a soldier."

It shows you felt the loss as well and are a member of the team, even if your job is different. But apparently, "Those guys lost a soldier" works for some people.

Hell; personally I would have done all I could to go with them, but I'm just not willing to say he is trying to deflect blame because he used "I OK'd a mission and they lost someone". Given, I usually disagree with the popular opinion here.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-01-2017, 03:40 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah, I go with option a). Sure. Did Trump behave good? Nope. I'm not doubting that and I deeply dislike the man. He might be very well in bad taste either and I do not intend to defend inappropriate photo ops and whatnot. He might exploit it politically by doing that (I don't know the instance you're referring to) - as do those who criticize him for the death of a navy seal.

I don't get into the whole chain of command and responsibility thing, because I really don't know. If I were president, I'd probably go with what my generals suggest; how would I, how would Trump know more details about the mission than them. When something goes wrong, that's always a risk one has to be willing to take, but I don't know about blame or responsibility. I didn't blame Hillary for Benghazi either - or thought it was her responsibility; to personally check security at the embassy or whatever. Not the same thing, but the same principle. To me.
If he "rushed" the decision or neglected risks that were not to be neglected, if the mission was unsuccesful, unnecessary or whatever - I couldn't know. It seems speculative to assume these things. I have no reason not to believe that the generals prepared the mission before him/without him and he just gave his permission.

But I too think he could have dealt with it waaay better, no doubt. Just there are around 50 billion other worse, way more troubling things about Trump out there.

Please don't hate me :)

Only Trump and maybe some naive followers believe Trump knows more than his senior military advisors. He acts or doesn't based upon their advice with input from his other staff members when appropriate and then applies his best judgment while making a decision. Whether the results are good, bad, or indifferent he is responsible for giving the order for others to act. 

He made the decision. Therefore, it is his responsibility. The paraphrase, the buck stops here. 

Claiming the generals came to him or the planning started long ago doesn't change the fact it was his order.

[Bengalzona]

(03-01-2017, 03:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell; personally I would have done all I could to go with them, but I'm just not willing to say he is trying to deflect blame because he used "I OK'd a mission and they lost someone". Given, I usually disagree with the popular opinion here.

Yeah. I can agree that it doesn't necessarily mean he is trying to intentionally deflect. In fact, I think that it is more his background. He is a business-guy, CEO, top down type. In that context, there isn't much need for him to use a "we" type approach (although some CEO types can make that work for them). He is used to a "me" or "my way" approach. I don't fault him for that. Heck, many people voted for him specifically because of that.

I view my criticism of his wording here as constructive, something that if heard could help. Something that his advisors ought to be telling him.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-01-2017, 05:16 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah. I can agree that it doesn't necessarily mean he is trying to intentionally deflect. In fact, I think that it is more his background. He is a business-guy, CEO, top down type. In that context, there isn't much need for him to use a "we" type approach (although some CEO types can make that work for them). He is used to a "me" or "my way" approach. I don't fault him for that. Heck, many people voted for him specifically because of that.

I view my criticism of his wording here as constructive, something that if heard could help. Something that his advisors ought to be telling him.

I don't think, "They lost, Ryan" means Trump is blaming the generals for his death, either. I'm not sure if any one has claimed that or it's just another red herring from the Red Herring Bandit. But, when Trump mentions the generals came to him, they wanted to do it, and the planning process started before he took office; he is clearly deferring his responsibility and playing the blame game. Murphy's Law is going to affect every mission to some degree, blaming the generals and the planning process is poor leadership and an even worse team building with those generals after the first mission Trump authorized. I guarantee those generals have recognized the same and know what to expect from Trump the next time something goes wrong. 

You know those really well respected generals, the best in decades; that Trump knew more about ISIS than them just last year.