The Circle Game or Neo Nazi symbol?

[Bengalzona]

(05-10-2019, 11:07 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You guys are apparently unaware that /pol/ started this rumor and the media ran with it.  They're trying to make leftists look foolish by claiming that common gestures are now "hate symbols".  You get enough of these labeled as such by the media and the media and the left look progressively dumber with each one they swallow.  They are succeeding.

That figures. It sounds like something a 14 year old would think up: "I made you look stupid! Har, har, har!" That would be in line with the maturity level of most 4chan users.

[BmorePat87]

(05-10-2019, 11:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: First rule of P&R.  Don't apologize.  Double down.  

That should be the official description of PnR. SSF is a good dude though. 

[BmorePat87]

(05-10-2019, 11:43 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Let's start the rumor the middle finger means, "You're #1!"

I'm not sure if this is in reference to 4chan's successful campaign or you expressing doubt that the symbol's common usage is a game. 

[*michaelsean*]

(05-10-2019, 12:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm not sure if this is in reference to 4chan's successful campaign or you expressing doubt that the symbol's common usage is a game. 

I'm pretty sure the former.  

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2019, 11:07 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You guys are apparently unaware that /pol/ started this rumor and the media ran with it.  They're trying to make leftists look foolish by claiming that common gestures are now "hate symbols".  You get enough of these labeled as such by the media and the media and the left look progressively dumber with each one they swallow.  They are succeeding.

Both sides look dumb because people from both sides fall for it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-10-2019, 12:30 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: That figures. It sounds like something a 14 year old would think up: "I made you look stupid! Har, har, har!" That would be in line with the maturity level of most 4chan users.

I think you'd be surprised by the type of people who frequent the /pol/ section.  I check into it for professional reasons on occasion.  There are clearly some very intelligent and knowledgeable people who frequent that section of 4chan.  Also, their ability to manipulate and, at times even dictate, public discourse is rather astonishing.  Pepe was entirely their creation, at least the reintroduction of the Pepe meme during the 2016 campaign.  Of course, there is a slew of racist content on there as well.  They also do some good, like tracking down Eric Clanton, the bike lock antifa guy.  They're very hard to really quantify. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-10-2019, 01:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Both sides look dumb because people from both sides fall for it.

To an extent, but it's not the right leading the charge on these issues.  The media and the left are the ones buying into and spreading these memes.

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2019, 03:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: To an extent, but it's not the right leading the charge on these issues.  The media and the left are the ones buying into and spreading these memes.

The most popular news media is very conservative.

The people on the right who believe it are "buying in" just as much as the left.  They are spread on alt-right sights also.

So both sides look equally stupid.

Funny how a centrist like you ignores all the mistakes made by the right and just keep insulting the left.

[Dill]

(05-10-2019, 11:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: First rule of P&R.  Don't apologize.  Double down.  

LOL   You know the game, son!

[Dill]

(05-10-2019, 11:43 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Let's start the rumor the middle finger means, "You're #1!"

LOL that reminds me of the Pueblo incident.

[Dill]

(05-09-2019, 11:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So anyone who was a teenager between the 80's and now probably played a version of a game where you try to get your friends to see you making a circle with your thumb and index finger below your waist. If you do, you get to punch them. Many call it the circle game.

With the rise in social media, this game had a resurgence with people who once played it. You could see NFL players doing it. Jennifer Lawrence and her male costars were doing it in interviews. Lil Wayne did it on the cover of Rolling Stone.  It was on an episode of Malcolm in the Middle 15 years ago.

A year or so ago, 4chan set out on a campaign to make people think it meant white power (with the middle, ring, and pinky fingers being a W and the circle being the P). It was pretty successful. People ran with it in the media, and the fact that enough people were doing it made people think that it was true.

A cop got fired for doing it in a photo. At some point actual neo nazis began to use it, either as mockery or because they realized it is the perfect cover as a game.

Fast forward to a few days ago, and a fan at the Cubs game flashed the symbol behind a black reporter and got a lifetime ban from Wrigley. He was immediately branded a racist for it. A decent chunk of the population has never heard of it so they only know it now as an alleged white supremacist symbol.

Should a very small amount of people using it as code take away from the original context?

Reminds me of a story I once read. A balloonist went to Brazil to compete in a balloon race. He hired four locals to hold his balloon with ropes, while he waited for the start. As start time approached, he gave each the "OK" sign, and each local threw down his rope and walked off. leading to disqualification. In Brazil, as in many parts of the world, the OK sign means "You're an ***hole."

I never heard of this "ok" game. But that's how codes work. Signs get re-purposed for "insiders" to read. What is interesting in this case is the evolution of this re-coding process in social media.  Looks like a fake or experimental re-purposing can work.

[Bengalzona]

(05-10-2019, 03:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think you'd be surprised by the type of people who frequent the /pol/ section.  I check into it for professional reasons on occasion.  There are clearly some very intelligent and knowledgeable people who frequent that section of 4chan.  Also, their ability to manipulate and, at times even dictate, public discourse is rather astonishing.  Pepe was entirely their creation, at least the reintroduction of the Pepe meme during the 2016 campaign.  Of course, there is a slew of racist content on there as well.  They also do some good, like tracking down Eric Clanton, the bike lock antifa guy.  They're very hard to really quantify. 

Sorry. But I don't classify baiting and manipulating others as intelligent behavior (not that I don't do it myself sometimes). It falls below actually convincing people of something, a much harder task.

[fredtoast]

(05-10-2019, 04:00 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Sorry. But I don't classify baiting and manipulating others as intelligent behavior (not that I don't do it myself sometimes). It falls below actually convincing people of something, a much harder task.

You are familiar with 4chan content aren't you.

Guys like Lucie and Vlad are considered "very intelligent and knowledgeable" over there.

[6andcounting]

Has anyone who is openly racist ever done it as a serious symbol of racism? As far as I know - no. And if you're racist, but not open about it then you wouldn't be doing racist things with your hands for people to see. It's racist because people who got trolled say it's racist, not because actual racists use it as such.

[*bfine32*]

(05-10-2019, 11:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: First rule of P&R.  Don't apologize.  Double down.  

Second rule of P&R. Don't apologize.  Double down.

[GMDino]

(05-10-2019, 09:48 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Has anyone who is openly racist ever done it as a serious symbol of racism? As far as I know - no. And if you're racist, but not open about it then you wouldn't be doing racist things with your hands for people to see. It's racist because people who got trolled say it's racist, not because actual racists use it as such.

https://twitter.com/ChrisEvans/status/1126864977648865280

I can't embedded the tweet with the video as there are multiple banned words written and spoken.

Quote:In viral video, leader of #LasVegas chapter of Turning Point USA seen giving Alt-Right "OK" sign while friend screams, "We're gonna run the world! White Power! **** N*****s!" Was seen giving same hand sign at recent "Build the Wall" rally.

Quote:Riley Grisar is the chapter president of the Las Vegas Turning Point USA. His father is the Vice President at Aegis Senior Communities LLC, according to Bloomberg.

Quote:Grisar was photographed doing the Alt-Right "OK" hand signal at a rally which was also reported on by the TPUSA adjacent rag, Campus Reform. He also is seen making the same hand sign in the above video - a clear sign that his white power politics remain the same.


[/url]

[url=https://twitter.com/IGD_News/status/1126673982889926656/photo/2]

Does that mean that that is what that sign means?  No idea.  To me it's still just "okay".  But I didn't play the dumb game and I'm not a white nationalist.  

[Au165]

The Swastika was once a Buddhist and Hinduism symbol before being commandeered by the Nazi's (Although slight directional difference). Part of the issue with symbolism is that symbols can have different meanings to different people. Over time symbols take on accepted meanings in cultures because enough of the population agrees with that meaning. The issue in this case is there has been a meaning interjected into the mainstream that has a negative connotation and people are flocking to condemn it rather than risk being associated with the negative meaning.

It is possible that the symbol can be a game (I played years ago), a hate symbol, and possibly a million other things. I think in cases like this and others it is important to look at the context of a person as a whole before we immediately jump to a conclusion of what a symbol may mean in that use case.

[Aquapod770]

(05-10-2019, 10:09 AM)GMDino Wrote: And that's where context comes in.

A guy wearing a nazi symbol doing it is different than you and your daughter at home.

Also have any of the folks "accused" of being white nationalists said they were playing that game?  Most of the defense I saw of them was pictures of other people making the "okay" sign.  

You speak of context, but the guy at the game wasn't wearing a Swastika. The burden of proof doesn't fall on the accused. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think skin color makes a person guilty. 

[treee]

I played this game as a kid and it is unsettling that it's now all of the sudden supposedly a nazi thing. I don't care if it was some dumb trolls who were trying to stir the pot, why should they get the cultural power to taint something like that?

[GMDino]

(05-13-2019, 09:16 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: You speak of context, but the guy at the game wasn't wearing a Swastika. The burden of proof doesn't fall on the accused. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think skin color makes a person guilty. 

Indeed.

Do we know anything else about him?  

My idea of "context" agrees with yours.  If I make the okay sign and someone says I.m playing a game or a white nationalist I can pretty much say I can argue that I'm not doing either pretty easily.  Others might have an issue.  

As to skin color I'd just say a white person is more likely to be a white nationalist than some other color person.