The Circle Game or Neo Nazi symbol?

[Au165]

(05-13-2019, 09:44 AM)GMDino Wrote: As to skin color I'd just say a white person is more likely to be a white nationalist than some other color person.  

We can agree to disagree....

[Dill]

(05-13-2019, 09:11 AM)Au165 Wrote: The Swastika was once a Buddhist and Hinduism symbol before being commandeered by the Nazi's (Although slight directional difference). Part of the issue with symbolism is that symbols can have different meanings to different people. Over time symbols take on accepted meanings in cultures because enough of the population agrees with that meaning. The issue in this case is there has been a meaning interjected into the mainstream that has a negative connotation and people are flocking to condemn it rather than risk being associated with the negative meaning.

It is possible that the symbol can be a game (I played years ago), a hate symbol, and possibly a million other things. I think in cases like this and others it is important to look at the context of a person as a whole before we immediately jump to a conclusion of what a symbol may mean in that use case.

This reminds me. About 10 years ago I was a a Jain temple in Mumbai with a group of Indian students. There were swastikas decorating banners and statues and various things. I told the students that people do not publicly display such symbols in the US; people would only see the swastika as a Nazi symbol. They were very surprised. "Why?" they wanted to know. 

They knew about Nazis too. The difference is likely that they saw the swastika all around them daily growing up in a culture where everyone associated it with a religion. So the Nazi association was minor, accidental and foreign.  For most people in the US, it ONLY appears as a Nazi symbol.  So if I am walking around Mumbai with a gold swastika dangling from a neck chain that wouldn't be much different than wearing a Christian cross. Just bling. In New York it could mean at the least confused and hostile stares.  

[GMDino]

(05-13-2019, 11:31 AM)Dill Wrote: This reminds me. About 10 years ago I was a a Jain temple in Mumbai with a group of Indian students. There were swastikas decorating banners and statues and various things. I told the students that people do not publicly display such symbols in the US; people would only see the swastika as a Nazi symbol. They were very surprised. "Why?" they wanted to know. 

They knew about Nazis too. The difference is likely that they saw the swastika all around them daily growing up in a culture where everyone associated it with a religion. So the Nazi association was minor, accidental and foreign.  For most people in the US, it ONLY appears as a Nazi symbol.  So if I am walking around Mumbai with a gold swastika dangling from a neck chain that wouldn't be much different than wearing a Christian cross. Just bling. In New York it could mean at the least confused and hostile stares.  

Nazis ruined a lot of stuff by co opting it for their own meanings.

[*jason*]

(05-09-2019, 11:34 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think it was brought back because nostalgia is big and social media added a new outlet for playing it with friends. I think the majority of those doing it above the waist are just doing it wrong, not necessarily trying to have it mean something coded. 

I get your point at the end, but there are definitely people who don't know it's new meaning. 


And they weren't even doing the symbol. For the "circle game", you do it upside down like this:





They were just doing an okay symbol that I've seen before in basketball and idiots thought it was something else when it wasn't even upside down and below the belt.

It's a symbol for 3 in basketball... They do it after hitting a 3 pointer.

[6andcounting]

(05-13-2019, 09:11 PM)jason Wrote: It's a symbol for 3 in basketball... They do it after hitting a 3 pointer.

3 pointers are racist

[6andcounting]

(05-13-2019, 09:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Does that mean that that is what that sign means?  No idea.  To me it's still just "okay".  But I didn't play the dumb game and I'm not a white nationalist.  

He did it to add to his racist rant. Very edgy of him. 

It has a bunch of different meanings and being overtly racist really isn't one of them (yet - it could happen) so simply using it doesn't mean you hate black people. People will use it as such, but they will make it clear that they are being racist, like the guy you showed. 

[GMDino]

(05-16-2019, 02:07 PM)6andcounting Wrote: He did it to add to his racist rant. Very edgy of him. 

It has a bunch of different meanings and being overtly racist really isn't one of them (yet - it could happen) so simply using it doesn't mean you hate black people. People will use it as such, but they will make it clear that they are being racist, like the guy you showed. 

You asked I provided an example.

I agree it means a bunch of different things...but if people are using it during their "racist rant" it seems to me they think it means something racist.  At least in that context.

[6andcounting]

(05-16-2019, 02:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: You asked I provided an example.

I agree it means a bunch of different things...but if people are using it during their "racist rant" it seems to me they think it means something racist.  At least in that context.

Maybe instead of "meanings" I should have said "common uses".

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2019, 01:59 PM)6andcounting Wrote: 3 pointers are racist

Absolutely.

Take the 3 and turn it on its side and the use the first letter for pointer and what do you have?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

You know who's a white supremicist?  Stephen Fry!  A lifelong liberal gay man, the face of white supremacy!

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/05/15/is-stephen-fry-a-white-supremacist/

[*jason*]

(05-16-2019, 01:59 PM)6andcounting Wrote: 3 pointers are racist

I know... Short, slow white dudes aren't able to carve out their niche in the NBA anymore.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-13-2019, 09:43 AM)treee Wrote: I played this game as a kid and it is unsettling that it's now all of the sudden supposedly a nazi thing. I don't care if it was some dumb trolls who were trying to stir the pot, why should they get the cultural power to taint something like that?

Same here, I played it.
My Eldest Son played it, and now I'm going thru is again with my youngest son.

Never knew or related it to some other meaning than "gotcha" now I get to punch ya, this is the first I've heard of it being some racist symbol..

[GMDino]

Like a few of us have said:  A trolling idea has flipped when accepted by the the very people trying to troll "the left".

And context matters.

https://www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-48293817?_gsa=1&_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-48293817

Quote:The hoax planned on 4Chan was simple - to ridicule media by convincing reporters of a fake white power symbol. The preposterous reasoning to be given was that in a hand making the OK sign, the three straight fingers make a "W" shape, while the closed thumb and forefinger symbolise the letter "P".



It was wildly successful, and the popularity of the gesture used to mock left-leaning people or "troll" viewers exploded.


In the two years since, however, its constant use by right-wing or extremist individuals has turned the hidden meaning into a genuine connotation.


As the US Anti-Defamation League (ADL) puts it: "By 2019, at least some white supremacists seem to have abandoned the ironic or satiric intent behind the original trolling campaign and used the symbol as a sincere expression of white supremacy."


Many now consider the sign to be a white nationalist "dog whistle" - a sign only intended to be understood by those in the know.


Which makes its use in the current political climate a bit complicated.


False accusations
Around most of the world, the OK sign still means what it always has - that everything is fine.

[/url]

In some countries, however, the gesture is considered vulgar. It can also have other meanings - among young men, it is frequently used in the "circle game", where making the sign below the waist and getting a friend to look at it entitles the prankster to thump said friend on the arm.


Before the hoax tried to invent an alternative meaning, supporters of US President Donald Trump had frequently been photographed using the OK sign - a gesture in selfies which spread among the group.


[url=https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll]"In the end, it can mean almost anything," as the US-based Southern Poverty Law Centre says in its explanation of the topic.


The ADL, too, warns against jumping to conclusions about the meaning, saying the "overwhelming usage" is still the traditional sense.


"Someone who uses the symbol cannot be assumed to be using the symbol in either a trolling or, especially, white supremacist context unless other contextual evidence exists to support the contention," the organisation says in its educational material.


"Since 2017, many people have been falsely accused of being racist or white supremacist for using the "okay" gesture in its traditional and innocuous sense."


Context, then, is key: which is why Estonia's EKRE, who Marine Le Pen was visiting in May, have come under fire.


The group's two most prominent leaders, father and son Mart and Martin Helme, both made the symbol while being sworn into office as they entered government.


Mr Helme the senior has suggested that indigenous, white Estonians are being "replaced" by immigrants, while his son has previously said "I want Estonia to be a white country".


But it has also spread far outside politics. A Chicago baseball team banned one fan from the stadium for making the sign on a television broadcast, whilea US Coast Guard employee was pulled from duty for the same offence .



What began as an online joke has transformed into a loaded gesture with very real consequences.

And as usual, nazis ruin something.  

[fredtoast]

Fred Toast back in my White Supremacist days

[*bfine32*]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/military-officials-investigating-possible-white-205800049.html

2 things:

1. This is absolutely PC BS

2. I'd hate to be that Cadet this week

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I do believe that these cadets actually support comedians who dress up in drag.

They were throwing the sign upside down which doesn't create a "W" and "P" for White Power but instead creates a "M" and "B" which stands for Milton Berl or since it may be "W" and "P" but flipped over it could represent Flip Wilson with the "P" standing for Phlip since its too hard to create an actual "F".

[fredtoast]

(12-16-2019, 11:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/military-officials-investigating-possible-white-205800049.html

2 things:

1. This is absolutely PC BS

2. I'd hate to be that Cadet this week

It is not PC BS now that some white supremacists have adopted the gesture as an actual racist signal.  It is a messed up and crazy situation.


A swastika originally meant "well being for all" in Sanskrit, but it could mean something different depending on who is displaying it.

And, yes, I would also hate to be that cadet.

[Dill]

(12-17-2019, 12:18 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I do believe that these cadets actually support comedians who dress up in drag.

They were throwing the sign upside down which doesn't create a "W" and "P" for White Power but instead creates a "M" and "B" which stands for Milton Berl or since it may be "W" and "P" but flipped over it could represent Flip Wilson with the "P" standing for Phlip since its too hard to create an actual "F".

LOL, that's why I would risk my military career to throw an upside down sign on national tv--to support comedians!  

 

[Dill]

(12-17-2019, 03:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not PC BS now that some white supremacists have adopted the gesture as an actual racist signal.  It is a messed up and crazy situation.

A swastika originally meant "well being for all" in Sanskrit, but it could mean something different depending on who is displaying it.

And, yes, I would also hate to be that cadet.

Looks like there was more than one. 

Hard to believe these guys were unaware of how seriously the military takes scandals like this, and hard to believe they were unaware of the racist meanings available for that sign. So which is it, racism or bad judgment--in uniform before the public either way?

If I'm their commander, I'm thinking we don't want such clueless cadets in our academy or in our military.

I'm sure it's ok (lol) if its right side up, like in this picture of Milo Yianopoulas and Pizza Party Ben.

But not upside down, as here with the Christchurch shooter.

[*bfine32*]

(12-17-2019, 03:42 PM)Dill Wrote: Looks like there was more than one. 

Hard to believe these guys were unaware of how seriously the military takes scandals like this, and hard to believe they were unaware of the racist meanings available for that sign. So which is it, racism or bad judgment--in uniform before the public either way?

If I'm their commander, I'm thinking we don't want such clueless cadets in our academy or in our military.

I'm sure it's ok (lol) if its right side up, like in this picture of Milo Yianopoulas and Pizza Party Ben.

But not upside down, as here with the Christchurch shooter.

I don't think for a second that the racist context of the symbol dawned on the Cadets; nor do i think it was intended as such. If not for this very forum I'd have 0 idea that it was tied to White Supremacy. The point is: They were "playing a Social media game" while representing their Academies in Uniform.