The Conservative Christian Right

[Belsnickel]

So, I listened to this podcast recently, and in addition discussed some of this in a class at about the same time, and it got me thinking about a conversation about this on the boards. The declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital spurred the conversation, but overall, this helps us understand why some of us may see cognitive dissonance when these people are not aware of any.

The root of it all comes down to dispensational premillennialism (they have it wrong on the site, FYI). The tl;dr version is that the rapture is coming, and then the kingdom of God on Earth. These believers look forward to this period in time and, in fact, often try to hasten it. The Jewish people having Jerusalem again is a sign of these times to come, and so the policy of making it happen is based on triggering the rapture. Other policy positions that members of certain denominations that are heavyweights in the evangelical Christian right pull for are aimed at this same goal. They focus only on that aspect, and if a candidate is going to further that cause, then that is all they care about.

Now, your average voter is not going to be thinking about this consciously, but the evangelical leaders are, and this is what they are spreading with their message. These voters often listen to these leaders, and so as a result will vote as they are often told, in a bloc. This is why we often see what appears to be contrary voting to values. None of that matters in the grand scheme of things to them.

Now, admittedly, by understanding of this particular theology is limited, especially with eschatology. So I welcome any corrections to this and hope to have some discussion about this.

[GMDino]

(12-13-2017, 03:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I listened to this podcast recently, and in addition discussed some of this in a class at about the same time, and it got me thinking about a conversation about this on the boards. The declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital spurred the conversation, but overall, this helps us understand why some of us may see cognitive dissonance when these people are not aware of any.

The root of it all comes down to dispensational premillennialism (they have it wrong on the site, FYI). The tl;dr version is that the rapture is coming, and then the kingdom of God on Earth. These believers look forward to this period in time and, in fact, often try to hasten it. The Jewish people having Jerusalem again is a sign of these times to come, and so the policy of making it happen is based on triggering the rapture. Other policy positions that members of certain denominations that are heavyweights in the evangelical Christian right pull for are aimed at this same goal. They focus only on that aspect, and if a candidate is going to further that cause, then that is all they care about.

Now, your average voter is not going to be thinking about this consciously, but the evangelical leaders are, and this is what they are spreading with their message. These voters often listen to these leaders, and so as a result will vote as they are often told, in a bloc. This is why we often see what appears to be contrary voting to values. None of that matters in the grand scheme of things to them.

Now, admittedly, by understanding of this particular theology is limited, especially with eschatology. So I welcome any corrections to this and hope to have some discussion about this.

I have to download and listen to that, but I'll make one general comment:

IMHO if you are voting or creating policy based on your religion alone you are crazy.  That goes for all policy and all religions.

If that policy is to further the "end times" you are dangerously crazy.

[Belsnickel]

(12-13-2017, 03:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: I have to download and listen to that, but I'll make one general comment:

IMHO if you are voting or creating policy based on your religion alone you are crazy.  That goes for all policy and all religions.

If that policy is to further the "end times" you are dangerously crazy.

I hesitate to call them crazy. This is a subjective judgement and isn't constructive or conducive to furthering the conversation.

[GMDino]

(12-13-2017, 03:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I hesitate to call them crazy. This is a subjective judgement and isn't constructive or conducive to furthering the conversation.

What word would you use for people who want to base the policies that affect not just themselves on which religious book they were raised to believe is true regardless of any other facts?

Better yet, what place has seen all it's people benefit and thrived by having a religious based government?  No form of gov is perfect, but using your religion is one of the worst because people who are "unbelievers" will suffer.

[Vas Deferens]

(12-13-2017, 03:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: What word would you use for people who want to base the policies that affect not just themselves on which religious book they were raised to believe is true regardless of any other facts?

Better yet, what place has seen all it's people benefit and thrived by having a religious based government?  No form of gov is perfect, but using your religion is one of the worst because people who are "unbelievers" will suffer.

Given that the leaders of said religion regularly fail to eat their own dog food, I hesitate to call anyone an 'unbeliever'.  These leaders are not encouraging voting out of true interest for garnering the 'end times', but purely selfish economic reasons.  I wouldn't call anyone who votes along those lines 'crazy', but vastly undereducated.  Its sad really.

[GMDino]

(12-13-2017, 05:30 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Given that the leaders of said religion regularly fail to eat their own dog food, I hesitate to call anyone an 'unbeliever'.  These leaders are not encouraging voting out of true interest for garnering the 'end times', but purely selfish economic reasons.  I wouldn't call anyone who votes along those lines 'crazy', but vastly undereducated.  Its sad really.

I guess I automatically associate religious people who want to push their religion on everyone else via public policy as "believers".

I can also see the ones playing the rubes for their own economic gain.

[Bengalzona]

(12-13-2017, 03:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I listened to this podcast recently, and in addition discussed some of this in a class at about the same time, and it got me thinking about a conversation about this on the boards. The declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's capital spurred the conversation, but overall, this helps us understand why some of us may see cognitive dissonance when these people are not aware of any.

The root of it all comes down to dispensational premillennialism (they have it wrong on the site, FYI). The tl;dr version is that the rapture is coming, and then the kingdom of God on Earth. These believers look forward to this period in time and, in fact, often try to hasten it. The Jewish people having Jerusalem again is a sign of these times to come, and so the policy of making it happen is based on triggering the rapture. Other policy positions that members of certain denominations that are heavyweights in the evangelical Christian right pull for are aimed at this same goal. They focus only on that aspect, and if a candidate is going to further that cause, then that is all they care about.

Now, your average voter is not going to be thinking about this consciously, but the evangelical leaders are, and this is what they are spreading with their message. These voters often listen to these leaders, and so as a result will vote as they are often told, in a bloc. This is why we often see what appears to be contrary voting to values. None of that matters in the grand scheme of things to them.

Now, admittedly, by understanding of this particular theology is limited, especially with eschatology. So I welcome any corrections to this and hope to have some discussion about this.

Having spent a lot of time around evangelicals, I find that is a minority view even among them. As I recall, it is mentioned several times in the Bible (and I'm too busy to look it up right now) that no one but Jesus knows when all of the end time stuff is supposed to happen. Most evangelicals know these quotes and can quote them better than I.

That said, there are a few people who believe this and would like to help it along. Frankly, I see that them being able to do anything in this reagrd is as likely as the U.S. becoming a fascist state (not likely).

[*bfine32*]

We might be over-thinking it. Most that consider morality when considering how to vote look as things such as abortion, SSM, and religious freedoms when forming an opinion, much more than which candidate will help the end-times. I think most believers feel man has zero input on when that will occur

[Belsnickel]

(12-13-2017, 05:44 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Having spent a lot of time around evangelicals, I find that is a minority view even among them. As I recall, it is mentioned several times in the Bible (and I'm too busy to look it up right now) that no one but Jesus knows when all of the end time stuff is supposed to happen. Most evangelicals know these quotes and can quote them better than I.

That said, there are a few people who believe this and would like to help it along. Frankly, I see that them being able to do anything in this reagrd is as likely as the U.S. becoming a fascist state (not likely).

(12-13-2017, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think most believers feel man has zero input on when that will occur

I may be misrepresenting these things. They don't necessarily believe they have any control over when it occurs, but they believe that there are things that must occur first, and so they work to make those things happen.

Does that make sense?

[*bfine32*]

(12-13-2017, 06:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I may be misrepresenting these things. They don't necessarily believe they have any control over when it occurs, but they believe that there are things that must occur first, and so they work to make those things happen.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense; although, I stand by the assertion that the population would be quite miniscule.

WTS, has anyone checked Trump's head for a birthmark?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I know many Baptists from all over and can say that not a single one of them is working to bring about or hasten the Tribulation or the End Times. I know a few Evangelicals as well and must say they are a different breed but know of none who are working towards it either. Many won't complain if Christ were to return right now but not a single one is working to bring it about.


I know there are groups of Christians who think that helping prophecy along but these groups, even if you put them together would be in the hundreds.


It the OP is referring to my post about Pence over in the Jerusalem thread, it was more tongue in check because I know the posters here in P&R.

[Vas Deferens]

(12-13-2017, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We might be over-thinking it. Most that consider morality when considering how to vote look as things such as abortion, SSM, and religious freedoms when forming an opinion, much more than which candidate will help the end-times. I think most believers feel man has zero input on when that will occur

good one.

[Belsnickel]

I really do think there is an underestimation of the number of people that follow this theology. I mean, this is the theology behind the Left Behind series. This isn't an i significant group.

[Yojimbo]

I just heard this joke somewhere, maybe SNL, but it went something like “the rapture happened and only Prince and David Bowie got in”

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(12-13-2017, 09:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I really do think there is an underestimation of the number of people that follow this theology. I mean, this is the theology behind the Left Behind series. This isn't an i significant group.

The Left Behind series is based off Biblical Prophecy and what the authors think it will be like during the Trubulation, not about a group bringing about the End Times. if you read the books, you will see this and how the authors even made the Antichrist and False Prophet into Abbott and Costello. Many Christian outlets write books and make movies that try to explain to nonbelievers what it's going to be like. They use these mediums, not well by they way but in corny ways, as ministry. but it's about the message, not how good or entertaining it is.

Christ said that none know the time except the Father. In other words, not even Christ knows which is weird since Christ is God but separate.

Christ also when asked for a sign or signs of the End Times said that it would be like in the times of Noah and we are nowhere near times like those no matter what anyone may say.

If there was any big group out there trying to bring about the end of the world through Bible Prophecy, we would know about it, everyone would know about it and it wouldn't be this huge secret. A group big enough, with enough followers would be a huge danger to the entire world and the world would be against them, I would be against them.

[*bfine32*]

(12-13-2017, 08:54 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: good one.

Thanks and it comes from the whole Baker must bake a wedding cake for the SSM. I do this a recent ruling by SCOTUS emboldens them in their stance.  

[*bfine32*]

(12-13-2017, 08:28 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I know there are groups of Christians who think that helping prophecy along but these groups, even if you put them together would be in the hundreds.


It the OP is referring to my post about Pence over in the Jerusalem thread, it was more tongue in check because I know the posters here in P&R.

Who was the dude that wanted to rent the airplane to be closer to the rapture when it occurred? I think it was one a New Years Eve. Stargate??

[Benton]

(12-13-2017, 06:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I may be misrepresenting these things. They don't necessarily believe they have any control over when it occurs, but they believe that there are things that must occur first, and so they work to make those things happen.

Does that make sense?

We all think we have some impact on the universe. End Timers are no different than most in that regard. They believe God has a plan and that they are part of that plan. By doing whatever it is they're doing, they believe they're doing God's will. Maybe that's something small like using credit cards (now the chip cards, since the magnetic versions obviously weren't the ones referred to). Or maybe it's something more significant, like securing funding to make sure Israel has enough arms and intel to fend off an attack by everyone else in the sand box.

Its sort of like thinking the McDonald's method is the best way to run a restaurant... so you volunteer your time at the local restaurant even if they don't want you back there making the fries.

[Belsnickel]

(12-13-2017, 10:19 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: The Left Behind series is based off Biblical Prophecy and what the authors think it will be like during the Trubulation, not about a group bringing about the End Times. if you read the books, you will see this and how the authors even made the Antichrist and False Prophet into Abbott and Costello. Many Christian outlets write books and make movies that try to explain to nonbelievers what it's going to be like. They use these mediums, not well by they way but in corny ways, as ministry. but it's about the message, not how good or entertaining it is.

Christ said that none know the time except the Father. In other words, not even Christ knows which is weird since Christ is God but separate.

Christ also when asked for a sign or signs of the End Times said that it would be like in the times of Noah and we are nowhere near times like those no matter what anyone may say.

If there was any big group out there trying to bring about the end of the world through Bible Prophecy, we would know about it, everyone would know about it and it wouldn't be this huge secret. A group big enough, with enough followers would be a huge danger to the entire world and the world would be against them, I would be against them.

I understand what you're saying, but what I am saying is that the theology and eschatology I am talking about in this thread is the same that led to the Left Behind series. It's more common than people think. In my original post I said I don't think that most people are consciously thinking about this, but that these sorts of policies are in the mind of their religious leaders who have a major impact on the voting patterns of their flocks.

[GMDino]

Matt, I just wanted add that I got through about 20 minutes in the car last night.  I'll try to finish it up tonight, but I get the feeling I might need to listen to it twice!