The Fight Against Fascists (I Can't Believe This Exists)

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-17-2021, 01:45 PM)Dill Wrote: And Hollo's post also makes a very important point. Whatever they think of Uncle Joe's "racism," the vast majority of U.S. Black voters do NOT see an equivalence between Obama, Hillary, and Biden, on the one hand, and Trump on the other. They are not somehow the same because Hillary once called a portion of Trump voters (e.g., the alt right and others who celebrate his incivility and scapegoating of minorities) "deplorables." Or Biden called Obama "articulate and clean." 

All that proves is that Biden had a "D" next to his name.  I don't disagree with the general point being made here, but the black vote going overwhelmingly to the Democratic candidate is a given and not proof of anything else other than party affiliation.

[bengaloo]

(06-17-2021, 02:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Bengaloo, you offer more surprising statements for an "independent" who adheres to no party and is not a Trump supporter.

It looks like you are separating "attacks" on Trump from Trump's own behavior, as if there were no connection.  And you keep speaking as if the the election hasn't been audited, usually more than once, at least in the swing states.

But I'd be interested to know why every person of color you know switched to Trump and won't ever vote Democrat again. E.g., why doesn't it bother them that Trump abused his office to stay in power? To what degree do they buy into conspiracy theories like Q Anon or the Big Lie? Do they believe the MSM is all "fake news"? Do they want the FBI to come clean about Hunter Biden's laptop? What are their primary news sources?

As far as the "Biden agenda," one item near the top is repairing Trump damage to our relations with our allies, and supporting democracy rather than autocracy around the world; that means finally pushing back against Putin. End the nonsense with NK. Domestically he has already gotten a handle on the COVID epidemic. You don't remember him promising to do that? And to address infrastructure? Biden's agenda was not covered well on some networks, which on the other hand trumpeted Trump's "accomplishments" 24/7.

I probably offer more surprising statements because I will give credit where credit is due, and dont just follow the pack on either side. I read both right and left sided news and decide for myself. I look at whats in front of me and how policy is working out for people in real actual life instead of relying on someones opinion and being so eager to tote a party line. Given that I have family of color who live in places like Detroit, I can honestly say that they have had a raw deal. My family were mostly democrats for my entire life, but a lot of them are switching not because of what NPR , Huffpo, Fox, Breitfart, etc says, but because of what they see with their own eyes happening in their own communities, and they are looking at the politicians at this point. Detroit has been destroyed, and the politicians involved were Democrats the entire time. Their policies failed the black communities there big time, but they dont want to fix it, they want to do even more of what ruined it in the first place. So now, they are voting more republican because they want to see something different and give it a chance. Can you really blame them for wanting to try something else at this point? BLM isnt helping them. Just making them weaker and more divided.

A lot of the blacks in my family feel like they are and have been being used by the democrats for many years and they are sick of it. They are sick of being treated differently because of the color of their skin, which is the very definition of racism. They are capable of working, going to college, getting ID's, including voter ID's yet a bunch of white liberal democrats argue that they aren't. They dont need babied and more welfare and more abortion clinics and to be thought of like they just arent capable of doing things on their own. They dont want race to be talked about every day because it doesnt help racism, it fuels it. They dont believe in white privilege, or Critical Race Theory. They understand that you cant legislate morality, and that in life, some people like you and some dont, and it doesnt really matter if you're even a little bit emotionally strong. They dont want to defund the police either. They aren't wimps and they dont need a bunch of white liberals telling them whats best for them. They just want y'all to get out of their way and realize that the policies and ideas you support dont help them at all and if anything hurt them more. They want opportunity, not more handouts. A lot of them want a border wall and to get immigration under control because it affects them more than anyone, especially my family in Houston. Which is one reason they support Trump. Not too mention, before he ran for office Trump was very popular in the black community in general. Rappers rapped about him even. Black folks loved his show. He was the American dream. He was not considered racist until the main stream media started saying that because they didnt want him to be president. They know this and know how to think for themselves. While Trump was in office, black employment increased a good bit. Also, he actually did prison reform instead of just talking about it or making things worse like Kamala Harris did. They know this more than you do because they live it and not just read NPR and the other liberal rags. Real life experience vs a biased opinion journalists opinion. Thats what it comes down to. 

I expect to see a very large shift to the right in the coming years. More and more in the black an hispanic communities particularly. Its time for them to try something else. Trump got more black votes than any Republican ever this past year. That trend will continue and not just for Trump. That is my prediction, but I dont give a crap either way lol. I just want everyone to get along.

[*Nately120*]

(06-17-2021, 01:53 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: You mean Victoria's Secret ditching hot women models for fat, gay and transgender people?  Whoa boy, cant wait for that lingerie runway show.  Enjoy the wokeness!  lmfao!!!!  Their new catch phrase can be "getting woke to go broke".

"Get woke or go broke" also rhymes and may be more in line with what money-focused businesses (ie, all the successful ones) will do.  The problem is, only liberals cancel companies/people who do/say things they don't like so conservatives are forced to continue supporting all these businesses that go all woke against their wishes.

This month all sorts of companies are being all gay friendly and liberals are like "YAY take my money!" and conservatives are all like "Boo, I want to stop giving you my money but I can't cancel you!"

(06-17-2021, 04:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I expect to see a very large shift to the right in the coming years. More and more in the black an hispanic communities particularly. Its time for them to try something else. Trump got more black votes than any Republican ever this past year. That trend will continue and not just for Trump. That is my prediction, but I dont give a crap either way lol. I just want everyone to get along.

It's possible, but it is also hard to assign any sort of gains Trump has made to the republican party in general since the guy is a total wild card.  I can't help but feel if Trump had the ability or desire to appoint someone else "the next Trump" he would do it and the republican party wouldn't be so beholden to a 2024 candidate who lost a re-election bid and will be nearly 79 by the time he would take office. Ted Cruz ain't getting the angry "straight white men are under attack" vote like Trump does, is he?

Republicans need Trump to do what Hulk Hogan did for the Ultimate Warrior at the end of Wrestlemania 6.  It wasn't enough that the Ultimate Warrior beat Hulk and got the belt, but Hulk Hogan had to personally hand the belt to him and raise his arm up and point to him and basically tell the crowd "Cheer for this guy now."  Even then, the Warrior fizzled out and the Hulkster was back before you could blink.  Geez, it's depressingly easy to compare politics to professional wrestling these days.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(06-17-2021, 02:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Bengaloo, you offer more surprising statements for an "independent" who adheres to no party and is not a Trump supporter.

It looks like you are separating "attacks" on Trump from Trump's own behavior, as if there were no connection.  And you keep speaking as if the the election hasn't been audited, usually more than once, at least in the swing states.

But I'd be interested to know why every person of color you know switched to Trump and won't ever vote Democrat again. E.g., why doesn't it bother them that Trump abused his office to stay in power? To what degree do they buy into conspiracy theories like Q Anon or the Big Lie? Do they believe the MSM is all "fake news"? Do they want the FBI to come clean about Hunter Biden's laptop? What are their primary news sources?

As far as the "Biden agenda," one item near the top is repairing Trump damage to our relations with our allies, and supporting democracy rather than autocracy around the world; that means finally pushing back against Putin. End the nonsense with NK. Domestically he has already gotten a handle on the COVID epidemic. You don't remember him promising to do that? And to address infrastructure? Biden's agenda was not covered well on some networks, which on the other hand trumpeted Trump's "accomplishments" 24/7.

This shit was handled well before he even got into office. He was hand wrapped the an already developed vaccine program.

[Belsnickel]

(06-17-2021, 07:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's possible, but it is also hard to assign any sort of gains Trump has made to the republican party in general since the guy is a total wild card.  I can't help but feel if Trump had the ability or desire to appoint someone else "the next Trump" he would do it and the republican party wouldn't be so beholden to a 2024 candidate who lost a re-election bid and will be nearly 79 by the time he would take office. Ted Cruz ain't getting the angry "straight white men are under attack" vote like Trump does, is he?

Republicans need Trump to do what Hulk Hogan did for the Ultimate Warrior at the end of Wrestlemania 6.  It wasn't enough that the Ultimate Warrior beat Hulk and got the belt, but Hulk Hogan had to personally hand the belt to him and raise his arm up and point to him and basically tell the crowd "Cheer for this guy now."  Even then, the Warrior fizzled out and the Hulkster was back before you could blink.  Geez, it's depressingly easy to compare politics to professional wrestling these days.

I'm interested in seeing the long term effects of Trumpism. It's the political scientist in me. The only things Trump matched with the GOP with on was the fear-mongering anti-immigration takes and the anti-intellectualism. He isn't free market (protectionist policies are antithetical to the modern Republican party), he certainly wasn't a budget hawk (though the GOP actually being budget hawks is highly debatable, anyway), he just out and out wasn't a conservative. Trump has no political ideology. He just spouts his faux populism and doom-and-gloom take on the US society and gets a lot of people who don't understand these things to cheer for him.

The GOP is in an identity crisis. They have been continually shifting the Overton Window in this country to the point where both parties are, legitimately, on the right of the geopolitical spectrum (on a good day I'd count the Democrats as centrist) and at this point they have moved further and further into anti-democratic territory. The path they are on is counter to everything they claim to love. The principles of the enlightenment that the founding fathers used to create our republic are now incompatible with their politics. So where do they go from here?

(06-18-2021, 01:40 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: This shit was handled well before he even got into office. He was hand wrapped the an already developed vaccine program.

Vaccines had been developed by the private industry and the government had purchased a bunch. There was no fleshed out distribution plan in place. Essentially, states were fending for themselves and it wasn't working well.

[hollodero]

(06-18-2021, 06:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The GOP is in an identity crisis. They have been continually shifting the Overton Window in this country to the point where both parties are, legitimately, on the right of the geopolitical spectrum (on a good day I'd count the Democrats as centrist) and at this point they have moved further and further into anti-democratic territory. The path they are on is counter to everything they claim to love. The principles of the enlightenment that the founding fathers used to create our republic are now incompatible with their politics. So where do they go from here?

Does it matter? 
Imho, they can pick any agenda they please, or no agenda at all, just lies and a cult of personality, coup attempts, whatever they want - within 8 years they regain power in any case. So why not run on an anti-democratic platform, or on a theoretical fascist platform for that matter, and stop this pendulum from swinging back again. It's not like the electorate would flee from them over any of that.

That's imho the gravest threat: That people just use the democratic process to elect antidemocratic people into office, because they do not appreciate democracy any more. Greatly heightened if there's only one viable alternative many people just detest.

[hollodero]

(06-17-2021, 02:29 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The only reason we have supposed "damage" with our allies is because they were being held accountable and people don't like to be held accountable.  Does your wife come in and fix the "damage" you did to relations with your child because you held them accountable and now they think you are a big "orange" meanie pants?

Putting the slight hint of condescendence towards said allies aside, this needs some correction. The relationship is not damaged because Trump mentioned defense budgets or held us accountable. Obama basically did the same thing. It was damaged because Trump endorses dictators and MBS and Putin and embarrassed his own country in Helsinki, denies Putin's election meddling (he pulls this shit all over Europe too), falls in love with North Korea's brutal dictator, left the climate accord (accompanied by some real dumb assumptions about it and the other countries that signed it), left the Kurds hanging, tore up the Iran deal without cause, tried to blackmail Ukraine and toying with their defenses against Russia in the process, attacked core democratic values like freedom of the press, toyed with not signing NATO Article 5, offended other leaders on twitter, oh and of course he was apparently egomaniac and anti-democratic and pretty much everyone also considered him to be a huge buffoon.

And now, of course, your allies don't trust you any longer. And rightfully so, you tear up valid unbreached contracts after all, so why reach any kind of agreement with the USA in the first place. In the grand picture, this GOP of yours just would have to commit to Sam the Village Idiot as presidential candidate, and after three election cycles at most it would be president Sam the Village Idiot. Now sure, in reality they will replace a losing candidate, but they could only exchange one fascist through another fascist and within 12 years you're guaranteed to have a fascist president that might do anything. And that's mighty scary.

[Belsnickel]

(06-18-2021, 09:16 AM)hollodero Wrote: Does it matter? 
Imho, they can pick any agenda they please, or no agenda at all, just lies and a cult of personality, coup attempts, whatever they want - within 8 years they regain power in any case. So why not run on an anti-democratic platform, or on a theoretical fascist platform for that matter, and stop this pendulum from swinging back again. It's not like the electorate would flee from them over any of that.

That's imho the gravest threat: That people just use the democratic process to elect antidemocratic people into office, because they do not appreciate democracy any more. Greatly heightened if there's only one viable alternative many people just detest.

I don't think this can be understated. For years, there has been this messaging of fear over white people becoming a minority in this country. I think that this has caused many white people (and I am specifying the white part of the electorate for this) to find themselves less in favor of democracy. The idea of a system potentially no longer favoring them over all others is scary to them and they vote in a way they perceive as protecting their interests. It isn't really, but that's how they see it.

Now, why we are seeing a drop in the percentage of votes from other races for Democrats is generally not related to this. Although, it should be said, that for a lot of Latino and Asian voters that are immigrants, they often come from places that aren't necessarily as democratic, and so their view of it can be different. But more often than not, the vote has more to do with social issues than it does with democratic ideas. Though I would venture a guess that most people who are voting for anti-democratic policies aren't even aware that this is the underlying reasoning. Propaganda has a way of doing that to people.

[*Nately120*]

(06-18-2021, 03:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't think this can be understated. For years, there has been this messaging of fear over white people becoming a minority in this country. I think that this has caused many white people (and I am specifying the white part of the electorate for this) to find themselves less in favor of democracy. The idea of a system potentially no longer favoring them over all others is scary to them and they vote in a way they perceive as protecting their interests. It isn't really, but that's how they see it.

Now, why we are seeing a drop in the percentage of votes from other races for Democrats is generally not related to this. Although, it should be said, that for a lot of Latino and Asian voters that are immigrants, they often come from places that aren't necessarily as democratic, and so their view of it can be different.  But more often than not, the vote has more to do with social issues than it does with democratic ideas. Though I would venture a guess that most people who are voting for anti-democratic policies aren't even aware that this is the underlying reasoning. Propaganda has a way of doing that to people.

It also seems to have a lot to do with the power and influence "your side" can be given by the people when you successfully convince them the "other side" is dangerous.  When you can convince people that one of the two major political parties that gets elected into power ever 4-12 years is going to destroy the country, suddenly leaving elections up to the people sounds like a risky proposition.

I can almost relate to this line of thinking with some finagling.  I hate mayonnaise and white bread, but I'd rather just eat a mayo on white bread sandwich than give the internet the power to decide what I eat for lunch from the choices of:

1 - expensive and delightful filet mignon
2 - a lightbulb

Because I know there is an unreasonably high chance people vote for me to eat the lightbulb...in this case I realize that freedom of choice is a bad thing and I will do everything in my power to remove the freedom of choice from the equation.  And while I realize this is a stupid comparison, I'm pretty sure the GOP has convinced people that living in a democracy is opening the door for a political party that wants us all to die, suffer, and then go directly to hell to seize power.  

A lot of people are willing to believe what they are told rather than what they see.  Then again, maybe I've just got it so good that I can't even realize that this country apparently went from a shithole to paradise to a shithole again in the past decade.   

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Their are approximately 45 representatives and at least 3 US Senators with strong ties to white supremacy. By strong ties means they have attended a white supremacy meeting in the last 2 years. Now the republican talking point those that stormed the capitol on Jan6th are true American patriots. Their is a correlation between Germany pre WWII and whats going on now.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-19-2021, 04:48 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Their are approximately 45 representatives and at least 3 US Senators with strong ties to white supremacy. By strong ties means they have attended a white supremacy meeting in the last 2 years. .

Would you care to give some examples (the person and the specific meeting attended)?

Fwiw, I actually spent about 5 minutes trying different search combinations on google to see what I could come up with on my own.  I can't find much if anything at all. 

If you're going to make a claim like this it would at least be nice if you provided some source material.  I'm really curious to read about it.  (Are these meetings actually what you describe?  Who went to them?  How many different meetings featured multiple representatives in attendance?  Who else was at the meetings?  Was this covered in real time, or unearthed later. etc.)

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(06-19-2021, 05:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Would you care to give some examples (the person and the specific meeting attended)?

Fwiw, I actually spent about 5 minutes trying different search combinations on google to see what I could come up with on my own.  I can't find much if anything at all. 

If you're going to make a claim like this it would at least be nice if you provided some source material.  I'm really curious to read about it.  (Are these meetings actually what you describe?  Who went to them?  How many different meetings featured multiple representatives in attendance?  Who else was at the meetings?  Was this covered in real time, or unearthed later. etc.)

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/04/gop-extremism-473806 That only showed 1 but  showed other disturbing trends within the party https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/29/senior-republican-steve-scalise-spoke-at-white-supremicist-meeting-in-2002 Here  Another is behind a paywall at the NY Times would give me quite a few more

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-19-2021, 05:50 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/04/gop-extremism-473806 That only showed 1 but  showed other disturbing trends within the party https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/29/senior-republican-steve-scalise-spoke-at-white-supremicist-meeting-in-2002 Here  Another is behind a paywall at the NY Times would give me quite a few more

May I ask how you came up with the "approximate" number of 45 representatives (in the last two years)?  Or the "at least 3 senators" statement?

These shouldn't be that hard to verify.  You were specific with the former, and the latter leads to the belief that there's 3 that immediately come to mind.

I'm generally curious where you're getting this information.  I want to know about these white supremicist meetings and why on Earth so many politicans were in attendance over a two year timespan.  Who organized the meetings?  Where were they held?  What was discussed/planned/debated?  Stuff like that...

Surely you can do better than 1 example, right?  If you can't, why reference a number like 45?

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-19-2021, 05:50 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/29/senior-republican-steve-scalise-spoke-at-white-supremicist-meeting-in-2002

Fwiw, this one is obviously 20 years old and does not fit your "in the last 2 years" statement. 

Also, this is a slippery slope.  You can take the man at his word, and believe him when he says he was younger and only had 1 assistant he would take speaking engagements with conservative groups when they asked, and that he knew nothing of some of the attendees.  He also denounced them after the fact.  

Or you can villfy him.  Just remember that if you're going to do this, then you're really going to have to crank up the outrage for someone like Robert Byrd, a literal KKK member who strongly opposed the Civil Right Act early in his political career, and who later became someone revered in DNC circles.  Joe Biden spoke at his funeral, and Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, etc. all offered high praise.

So you have 1 man who spoke at an event with some very questionable attendees vs. another man who literally recruited over 100 people into his local KKK chapter.  Take your pick.  And just be careful when going down the "by association" road, otherwise you'll take out the entirety of both parties.

[Dill]

(06-19-2021, 06:35 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, this one is obviously 20 years old and does not fit your "in the last 2 years" statement. 

Also, this is a slippery slope.  You can take the man at his word, and believe him when he says he was younger and only had 1 assistant he would take speaking engagements with conservative groups when they asked, and that he knew nothing of some of the attendees.  He also denounced them after the fact.  

Or you can villfy him.  Just remember that if you're going to do this, then you're really going to have to crank up the outrage for someone like Robert Byrd, a literal KKK member who strongly opposed the Civil Right Act early in his political career, and who later became someone revered in DNC circles.  Joe Biden spoke at his funeral, and Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, etc. all offered high praise.

So you have 1 man who spoke at an event with some very questionable attendees vs. another man who literally recruited over 100 people into his local KKK chapter.  Take your pick.  And just be careful when going down the "by association" road, otherwise you'll take out the entirety of both parties.

Why did he become revered later? 

[hollodero]

(06-17-2021, 04:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: All that proves is that Biden had a "D" next to his name.  I don't disagree with the general point being made here, but the black vote going overwhelmingly to the Democratic candidate is a given and not proof of anything else other than party affiliation.

Very quickly (I overlooked this) - Biden secured his nomination in the democrat'a primaries mainly through the black community's votes. That was my relevant point, not that he won more black votes than Trump in the general election.

(06-19-2021, 06:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: May I ask how you came up with the "approximate" number of 45 representatives (in the last two years)?  Or the "at least 3 senators" statement?

That is a completely fair question and I don't want to take anything away from it. From my perspective though. When a bunch of white supremacists and other right-wing extremists breach and storm the Capitol, want to find Mike Pence to apparently hang him and shout for Nancy Pelosi in a horror-film-like creepy voice, attack officers and all that other stuff, and then senators and congressmen come out and call it things like a "tourist visit" and do their best to diminish this whole affair, then I don't find it particularly far fetched to call those politicians too close to the ideals of said insurrectionist group. 

In a way, flat-out rejecting a commission to get behind all that is like giving aid and comfort to the groups and ideologies responsible.

[Dill]

(06-17-2021, 04:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I probably offer more surprising statements because I will give credit where credit is due, and dont just follow the pack on either side. I read both right and left sided news and decide for myself. I look at whats in front of me and how policy is working out for people in real actual life instead of relying on someones opinion and being so eager to tote a party line. Given that I have family of color who live in places like Detroit, I can honestly say that they have had a raw deal. My family were mostly democrats for my entire life, but a lot of them are switching not because of what NPR , Huffpo, Fox, Breitfart, etc says, but because of what they see with their own eyes happening in their own communities, and they are looking at the politicians at this point. Detroit has been destroyed, and the politicians involved were Democrats the entire time. Their policies failed the black communities there big time, but they dont want to fix it, they want to do even more of what ruined it in the first place. So now, they are voting more republican because they want to see something different and give it a chance. Can you really blame them for wanting to try something else at this point? BLM isnt helping them. Just making them weaker and more divided.

Sorry I am late getting back to this, bengaloo. It was a good response.  I can understand why many people in Detroit might be disappointed in Democrats, though I don't really see how voting Republican would improve their condition, as it would empower a party not interested in "fixing" inner cities and appears bent on reducing Black participation in election.

Not clear to me how BLM isn't helping if it creates awareness/pressure to reform policing.

(06-17-2021, 04:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: A lot of the blacks in my family feel like they are and have been being used by the democrats for many years and they are sick of it. They are sick of being treated differently because of the color of their skin, which is the very definition of racism. They are capable of working, going to college, getting ID's, including voter ID's yet a bunch of white liberal democrats argue that they aren't. They dont need babied and more welfare and more abortion clinics and to be thought of like they just arent capable of doing things on their own. They dont want race to be talked about every day because it doesnt help racism, it fuels it. They dont believe in white privilege, or Critical Race Theory. They understand that you cant legislate morality, and that in life, some people like you and some dont, and it doesnt really matter if you're even a little bit emotionally strong. They dont want to defund the police either. They aren't wimps and they dont need a bunch of white liberals telling them whats best for them. They just want y'all to get out of their way and realize that the policies and ideas you support dont help them at all and if anything hurt them more. They want opportunity, not more handouts. A lot of them want a border wall and to get immigration under control because it affects them more than anyone, especially my family in Houston. Which is one reason they support Trump. Not too mention, before he ran for office Trump was very popular in the black community in general. Rappers rapped about him even. Black folks loved his show. He was the American dream. He was not considered racist until the main stream media started saying that because they didnt want him to be president. They know this and know how to think for themselves. While Trump was in office, black employment increased a good bit. Also, he actually did prison reform instead of just talking about it or making things worse like Kamala Harris did. They know this more than you do because they live it and not just read NPR and the other liberal rags. Real life experience vs a biased opinion journalists opinion. Thats what it comes down to. 

The MSM started assessing Trump's racism back in the '73, when the Justice Department sued him and his father were for housing discrimination. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html. That was long before he pushed the birther lie. How can you "read both sides" and not know this, and the rest of Trump's pre-election history with the media?

You understand that most of the bolded above IS a "partly line," right? This is, practically line for line, the message of Republicans and Black conservatives to the Black community.  Think of Candace Owens "Red Pill" Youtube work. And her Fox interviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGVdD_QxuEc.  

Laying out a long-standing right wing talking points, while claiming you are not following a party line, is like defending the infalliability of the Pope, the intercession of Mary, and transubstantiation of the host, while simultaneously affirming you side with no particular religion and made up your own mind without direction from Church doctrine.

The VAST majority of Black people in the U.S., who also say they base their views on "real life experience vs a biased journalists opinion" reject the claim that Democrats/liberals argue that Blacks are "incapable." Rather they recognize that Republicans don't want race "talked about" so that racial inequity can continue. 

(06-17-2021, 04:43 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I expect to see a very large shift to the right in the coming years. More and more in the black an hispanic communities particularly. Its time for them to try something else. Trump got more black votes than any Republican ever this past year. That trend will continue and not just for Trump. That is my prediction, but I dont give a crap either way lol. I just want everyone to get along.

Did Biden get more Black votes than any presidential candidate in history, including Wayne County MI, where your relatives live? 

Will people "get along" if Trump keeps telling us the election was stolen and millions believe him?

[Dill]

(06-20-2021, 08:59 AM)hollodero Wrote: Very quickly (I overlooked this) - Biden secured his nomination in the democrat'a primaries mainly through the black community's votes. That was my relevant point, not that he won more black votes than Trump in the general election.

Hmm. Both Harris and Biden had a "D" by their names in the primaries. 

Are you implying that something besides party affiliation might have affected the decision of the majority of Black voters to choose Biden? 

[Goalpost]

(06-20-2021, 06:00 PM)Dill Wrote: The MSM started assessing Trump's racism back in the '73, when the Justice Department sued him and his father were for housing discrimination. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html. That was long before he pushed the birther lie. How can you "read both sides" and not know this, and the rest of Trump's pre-election history with the media?
 

Back then, Trump considered himself more Democratic than Republican.  A quick research of who accepted campaign contributions from Trump after this court case included....

Charlie Rangel, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Anthony Weiner, Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo, Ed Rendell, Terry McAuliffe, Kamala Harris.  To be fair, Trump gave to Republicans also.  But this is almost a who's who of Democrats..if this case was so consequential...it didn't matter to them. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-20-2021, 08:59 AM)hollodero Wrote: Very quickly (I overlooked this) - Biden secured his nomination in the democrat'a primaries mainly through the black community's votes. That was my relevant point, not that he won more black votes than Trump in the general election.

Yes, that would be accurate.  My apologies for misinterpreting your position.

(06-20-2021, 06:04 PM)Dill Wrote: Hmm. Both Harris and Biden had a "D" by their names in the primaries. 

Are you implying that something besides party affiliation might have affected the decision of the majority of Black voters to choose Biden? 

Harris was well out of the race before Biden began to pick up steam in the more heavily black state primaries.  You do, inadvertently, make a good point though, the voters overwhelmingly disliked Harris.