The First GOP Debate

[CKwi88]

(08-24-2023, 09:48 AM)Dill Wrote: She seemed the smartest and most competent person on the stage, with a knowledge of 
how government works AND foreign policy. She was the anti-Vivek. 

Haley was also a truth-teller, more clearly identifying the origins of expanded government
spending over the last 6 years--but only up to a point.

Saying she would support Trump were he the nominee seemed to take it all back. That's indirectly
endorsing the Big Lie (or saying it and its consequences were not really consequential) and 
condemning the justice system trying to protect the US from an incompetent and also seditious 
former president. At least Christie and Hutchinson came down on the side of principle. 

The moderators never asked if any candidates still thought the election 
was stolen. Wonder if that was deliberate.

Haley is undoubtedly posturing for the VP nod and probably has the best shot at it. 

[kalibengal]

(08-24-2023, 11:02 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Haley is undoubtedly posturing for the VP nod and probably has the best shot at it. 

Independent here: I watched and it was refreshing to me to watch a GOP debate to actually hear what the candidates stand for and not become a grade school food fight if Trump was there. Come to find out the GOP has some solid candidates ...I liked Haley, Christie, and cant believe im saying this but Pence stood out too. I thought DeSantis  was over doing it at times and used the word "kill" I think which is not a good look IMO. Also, I don't  like DeSantis voice and how we speaks. Vivek is the GOP Pete Butigieg but kisses too much Trump A$$....I guess trying to get MAGA to get behind him and maybe  a VP candidate?
Scott seems solid too and Asa spoke the truth which GOP needs to hear.   GOP slogan should be "Its Time to Move On America"     

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2023, 11:22 AM)kalibengal Wrote:  GOP slogan should be "Its Time to Move On America"     

I think that'll be the mindset if Trump flops in 2024, but right now it's clear their voter base isn't moving on from Trump.

[CKwi88]

(08-24-2023, 11:22 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Independent here: I watched and it was refreshing to me to watch a GOP debate to actually hear what the candidates stand for and not become a grade school food fight if Trump was there. Come to find out the GOP has some solid candidates ...I liked Haley, Christie, and cant believe im saying this but Pence stood out too. I thought DeSantis  was over doing it at times and used the word "kill" I think which is not a good look IMO. Also, I don't  like DeSantis voice and how we speaks. Vivek is the GOP Pete Butigieg but kisses too much Trump A$$....I guess trying to get MAGA to get behind him and maybe  a VP candidate?
Scott seems solid too and Asa spoke the truth which GOP needs to hear.   GOP slogan should be "Its Time to Move On America"     

I agree that it should be. The candidates were given the softest of softball questions as an opportunity to show they agree, and in 15 seconds (and the crowd during the whole show) it became abundantly clear that the party is still beholden to Donald Trump. 

Being a Trump sycophant is a disqualifier for me. The only one of those candidates I could ever see myself voting for would be Christie. Maybe Haley in a universe where she isn't a Trump apologist or a pretty despicable person towards LGBT people. 

(08-24-2023, 11:43 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I think that'll be the mindset if Trump flops in 2024, but right now it's clear their voter base isn't moving on from Trump.

At this point I'm convinced that much like a cult, it will take the leader dying in order to move on. 

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2023, 11:48 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: At this point I'm convinced that much like a cult, it will take the leader dying in order to move on. 

That will deprogram most of them, but I predict that like the JFK crew you'll have people talking about and maybe even voting for Trump every electing thinking he'll reveal he faked his death and he's back to (insert something insane here).

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 09:48 AM)Dill Wrote: She seemed the smartest and most competent person on the stage, with a knowledge of 
how government works AND foreign policy. She was the anti-Vivek. 

Haley was also a truth-teller, more clearly identifying the origins of expanded government
spending over the last 6 years--but only up to a point.

I was very impressed by Haley and her honesty. Especially when she pointed the finger right back to Republicans on the debt. I've been impressed with her for awhile, but don't know enough about her.

Quote:Saying she would support Trump were he the nominee seemed to take it all back. That's indirectly

endorsing the Big Lie (or saying it and its consequences were not really consequential) and 
condemning the justice system trying to protect the US from an incompetent and also seditious 
former president. At least Christie and Hutchinson came down on the side of principle. 

I don't think this hurt her at all. Although, people like yourself who despise Trump may see it differently. Some of those candidates may very well be the next running VP if Trump is able to run. I believe Haley, Scott and of course, Ramaswamy would lead the way. With Ramaswamy, I don't think I've ever seen a hand go up as fast when asked about supporting Trump. I was surprised by Christie. I don't think he has a chance because people don't like him, but he said a lot of good things.

Quote:The moderators never asked if any candidates still thought the election 

was stolen. Wonder if that was deliberate.

Why would they need to? 

I heard last night what I expected to hear. A lot of fingerpointing and fluff, with no real explanations on how to get done what they say they want don't. However, in regard to the questions about supporting Ukraine and sealing our boarders, Haley said it best. We can do both. She is a winner in my book.

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 12:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The moderators never asked if any candidates still thought the election was stolen.

Why would they need to? 

It would be nice to know if a candidate can sort reality from fiction--in my view the most important criterion for national leadership.

Also I'd like to know if a potential leader understands how much damage Trump has done to our nation and system of government.

People who put that all down to Trump derangement syndrome and spin off into the narrative of how an innocent Trump, greatest
president of the 21st century, has been snared by a weaponized DOJ mobilized by the "deep state's" fear he will clean the swamp,
will be basing their decisions on a false reality, or are coldly mobilizing a Trump manipulation--the Big Lie-- to their own benefit,
as Rupert Murdoch did and Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, and Sean Hannity are still doing.  

If they get to office they'll set about' fixing institutions that are not broken and prosecuting honorable patriotic Americans who did their job.
One of the biggest problems in our polity at the moment is that political assessments have been severed from any kind ground in
empirical reality. True believers will continue that if in office.

People who don't believe the Big Lie, like Pence, but who nevertheless think nothing should happen to Trump, are also, in my view,
quite unfit for office, quite unable to govern by principle. They are still influenced by mob pressure. They help normalize this situation
in which someone who attempted to break democracy, and would again if ever in office, is once more running with a chance of winning
with the blessing of most Republicans.

Also, for people who still do think the election was stolen, I'd think they'd want to know which candidates would also be living in that
fantasy with them. 

So what's up with the don't ask don't tell policy of the moderators? 

[basballguy]

(08-24-2023, 12:47 PM)Dill Wrote: It would be nice to know if a candidate can sort reality from fiction--in my view the most important criterion for national leadership.

It would be nice to have a president that could sort reality from fiction...........but we know better than to talk about that here.

[NATI BENGALS]

Watched for about 10-15 minutes. Heard desanitize express his desire to go after political enemies and Vivek call climate change a hoax and I was ready to turn it off.

Asa is probably the most respectable person on the stage. But I think he threatens women’s right to choose. Christie may be the only one I would even consider. But I’d have to read up in that bridge ordeal again. It’s been awhile. But it sounded like an abuse of power deal to me.

[*pally*]

I did not watch the debate, the soccer game was much better, but in watching the clips today and reading the analysis, it was pretty obvious no one on that stage is actually running for President with the exception of Chris Christie or maybe Asa Hutchinson (but he barely said anything). Shoot they barely even went after Ron DeSantis who is #2 in the polls.

If they as a group refuse to take on Donald Trump who is leading the Republican polls by far and away, how in the world do they ever hope to beat him? I guess they are hoping the judicial system will take care of him for them. But that is not likely to stop Republican voters.

In 2016, the same thing happened. All the candidates kept taking on everyone but Trump hoping to be the last man standing next to him, figuring they would take him on when it became one one-on-one. Well by then it was too late and if they don't try to knock him out now it will be too late in 2024 when the primaries start.

If they can't take Trump on, how do they expect to deal with international leaders?

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 12:47 PM)Dill Wrote: So what's up with the don't ask don't tell policy of the moderators? 

?? Please explain

[basballguy]

I didn't watch much of the debate, maybe 30 minutes, but it was the 30 minutes after that first break where they decided to bring up Trump so i ended up turning it off.

Maybe I'll just wait a few months and try again.

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 01:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: ?? Please explain

Moderators don't ask if candidates believe the Big Lie.

So no one has to tell.

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 11:22 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Independent here: I watched and it was refreshing to me to watch a GOP debate to actually hear what the candidates stand for and not become a grade school food fight if Trump was there. Come to find out the GOP has some solid candidates ...I liked Haley, Christie, and cant believe im saying this but Pence stood out too. I thought DeSantis  was over doing it at times and used the word "kill" I think which is not a good look IMO. Also, I don't  like DeSantis voice and how we speaks. Vivek is the GOP Pete Butigieg but kisses too much Trump A$$....I guess trying to get MAGA to get behind him and maybe  a VP candidate?
Scott seems solid too and Asa spoke the truth which GOP needs to hear.   GOP slogan should be "Its Time to Move On America"     

I agree with this generally, except for the bolded. We value truth speakers, 
but they are their own kryptonite before an audience that values truthiness.

I'm not a Republican and wouldn't vote for any of the candidates vs Biden. 
But I recognize some candidates last night were clearly competent people and would not govern badly.

But I was surprised by Scott. I expected he would be sunny and positive throughout, and be somewhat more focused on 
policy. He began that way, then mired himself in grievance and threat. If I'm MAGA, I'm going to be more impressed
with Vivek, who is the more complete package and has more energy (Climate change is a hoax, Pardon Trump no
conditions, pull out of Ukraine). Clearly the winner for that audience.

I expected DeSantis to underwhelm, and I think he did. What I didn't expect was for Pence to do the best with what he
had. The moment where Christie focused attention on his refusal to throw the election, was a moment of honor--except then
he said he would support Trump if he won the nomination.

So many agreed Pence did the right thing, but seemed to compartmentalize the obverse of that act, namely that Trump had
asked him to violate the Constitution and break the law. Almost a thousand people who wouldn't say no were arrested and
convicted, more still to come, and Trump promises retribution if he wins a second term. 

No biggie though. They'd still support him.

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 02:14 PM)Dill Wrote: Moderators don't ask if candidates believe the Big Lie.

So no one has to tell.

Sorry I asked. 

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 02:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Sorry I asked. 

??? Don't understand your reponse.

Was the election stolen or not?

That's an important issue, isn't it? 

Looks people are comfortable with keeping it to themselves. No one has to face facts.

That's not good. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-24-2023, 02:59 PM)Dill Wrote: ??? Don't understand your reponse.

Was the election stolen or not?

That's an important issue, isn't it? 

Looks people are comfortable with keeping it to themselves. No one has to face facts.

That's not good. 

Why should that be important to those that were there?




I thought the hand raising was pretty funny. 
Only one was quick the rest were like.. should i.... and one was barely raised (like hoping no one saw it lol).

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(08-24-2023, 12:55 PM)basballguy Wrote: It would be nice to have a president that could sort reality from fiction...........but we know better than to talk about that here.

This approach would eliminate the indicted criminal that skipped the debate . . . but we know better than to think that that will be disqualifying for the GOP.

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 03:31 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why should that be important to those that were there?




I thought the hand raising was pretty funny. 
Only one was quick the rest were like.. should i.... and one was barely raised (like hoping no one saw it lol).

Are you talking about Ramaswamy when asked who would still support Trump? His hand raised so fast I thought his arm would fly out of socket.

On another topic, I loved hearing them talk about busting the teachers unions. I also liked Haileys' response of teaching our kids to build things again. Shop and home economics were important classes when my generation went to H.S., but today, it seems most kids can't do anything without a keyboard and a cell phone. I get that times have changed, but a kid should know how to change the oil, install a new battery, or change a tire and cook. And before anyone argues that women wouldn't be interested in industrial arts, auto shop, or men in cooking, well, like I said, things have changed.

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2023, 03:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Are you talking about Ramaswamy when asked who would still support Trump? His hand raised so fast I thought his arm would fly out of socket.

He's trying to be the young hip Trump.  He's going for that crypto-bro segment of the conservative base, the "I can be ultra rich if I listen to someone rich" types.  

(08-24-2023, 03:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: On another topic, I loved hearing them talk about busting the teachers unions.

Good ol' teachers...the one segment of the working class the GOP openly admits they want to keep down.  43 years of bustin' unions and reducing the power the working class and asking "Hey, why can't the average American afford stuff anymore?!"