The First GOP Debate

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-24-2023, 03:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Are you talking about Ramaswamy when asked who would still support Trump? His hand raised so fast I thought his arm would fly out of socket.

On another topic, I loved hearing them talk about busting the teachers unions. I also liked Haileys' response of teaching our kids to build things again. Shop and home economics were important classes when my generation went to H.S., but today, it seems most kids can't do anything without a keyboard and a cell phone. I get that times have changed, but a kid should know how to change the oil, install a new battery, or change a tire and cook. And before anyone argues that women wouldn't be interested in industrial arts, auto shop, or men in cooking, well, like I said, things have changed.

Watch out, Ramen noodles going to hunt you down for that comment.

But i'm with you on that, if i had the ability to re-vamp the school system, basic cooking would be required, and i like the idea of the cars as well. Basically my idea was educate about everyday type of things like, how credit cards actually work (from an interest standpoint) and so on.

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2023, 04:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Watch out, Ramen noodles going to hunt you down for that comment.

But i'm with you on that, if i had the ability to re-vamp the school system, basic cooking would be required, and i like the idea of the cars as well. Basically my idea was educate about everyday type of things like, how credit cards actually work (from an interest standpoint) and so on.

I'm confused as to why people think people need to learn basic cooking in school. This country doesn't have a nearly $400 billion dollar fast food industry because people don't know how to cook.

[GMDino]

If any of those changes means spending more money on education that would be great.

But I'd be willing to bet a class like history would simply be cut from the budget.

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 03:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Are you talking about Ramaswamy when asked who would still support Trump? His hand raised so fast I thought his arm would fly out of socket.

On another topic, I loved hearing them talk about busting the teachers unions. I also liked Haileys' response of teaching our kids to build things again. Shop and home economics were important classes when my generation went to H.S., but today, it seems most kids can't do anything without a keyboard and a cell phone. I get that times have changed, but a kid should know how to change the oil, install a new battery, or change a tire and cook. And before anyone argues that women wouldn't be interested in industrial arts, auto shop, or men in cooking, well, like I said, things have changed.

Agree with you on most of this.  Though now changing oil is complicated, because you have to be careful where to dump the oil. 

One of my most fondly remember HS classes was Farm shop. I learned to weld, braze and solder. Plus how to identify about 50 kinds of grain crops. 

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 03:31 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Why should that be important to those that were there?

I thought the hand raising was pretty funny. 
Only one was quick the rest were like.. should i.... and one was barely raised (like hoping no one saw it lol).

Lol irony, right?

It figures that so many of the candidates stated goals--e.g., firing the head of the FBI, cleaning house at the DOJ, pardoning Trump--
were based on the assumption that their prosecution on Trump was unwarranted, just "weaponization," etc. because

he either did not perpetrate a coup or was justified in doing so (because the election really was stolen by Biden). 

So many in the audience would want to know if a possible candidate bought into the Big Lie. If not, how could they be trusted
to go after those parts of government prosecuting people for the coup? So if you, as a candidate, stated you believed the
election was stolen, that would convince voters you could be trusted to pardon Trump and punish his persecutors.

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 04:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Good ol' teachers...the one segment of the working class the GOP openly admits they want to keep down.  43 years of bustin' unions and reducing the power the working class and asking "Hey, why can't the average American afford stuff anymore?!"

It's well known I am not a huge fan of unions. I don't hate them, but don't care for them.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-24-2023, 05:14 PM)Dill Wrote: Lol irony, right?

It figures that so many of the candidates stated goals--e.g., firing the head of the FBI, cleaning house at the DOJ, pardoning Trump--
were based on the assumption that their prosecution on Trump was unwarranted, just "weaponization," etc. because

he either did not perpetrate a coup or was justified in doing so (because the election really was stolen by Biden). 

So many in the audience would want to know if a possible candidate bought into the Big Lie. If not, how could they be trusted
to go after those parts of government prosecuting people for the coup? So if you, as a candidate, stated you believed the
election was stolen, that would convince voters you could be trusted to pardon Trump and punish his persecutors.

I have no idea why you think they wouldn't go after some of them. Some have overplayed their hand and need to go. I mean really, why would l leave those hacks in place for when i leave office? So they can come after me?? no thanks

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 04:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Basically my idea was educate about everyday type of things like, how credit cards actually work (from an interest standpoint) and so on.

I won't lie, I definitely could have used some instruction on that at a younger age. I should have learned to cook too. Maybe that's why I keep re-marrying. I need a sammich maker in the house.

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 05:06 PM)Dill Wrote: Agree with you on most of this.  Though now changing oil is complicated, because you have to be careful where to dump the oil. 

One of my most fondly remember HS classes was Farm shop. I learned to weld, braze and solder. Plus how to identify about 50 kinds of grain crops. 

I'm assuming that farm shop is different than FFA?

[Luvnit2]

(08-24-2023, 04:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: If any of those changes means spending more money on education that would be great.

But I'd be willing to bet a class like history would simply be cut from the budget.

Serious question

Do you think money for schools should come (be decided how it is dispersed) from the federal government?

Or should the money be sent to each state and let them decide how to spend it?

As for now, it is the federal teacher's union dictating the money. I would argue, they are in fact the problem. Teacher's are and will never be the issue, it is the leaders at the top like Weingartner who need to be shown the door.

[*pally*]

(08-24-2023, 03:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Are you talking about Ramaswamy when asked who would still support Trump? His hand raised so fast I thought his arm would fly out of socket.

On another topic, I loved hearing them talk about busting the teachers unions. I also liked Haileys' response of teaching our kids to build things again. Shop and home economics were important classes when my generation went to H.S., but today, it seems most kids can't do anything without a keyboard and a cell phone. I get that times have changed, but a kid should know how to change the oil, install a new battery, or change a tire and cook. And before anyone argues that women wouldn't be interested in industrial arts, auto shop, or men in cooking, well, like I said, things have changed.

I agree that every person should know how to do those things but aren't those life skills a parent should be teaching instead of the public education system?  Like you said time changes...those are skills better learned outside schools.

If we bust teacher's unions can we do the same with police unions?  

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 05:43 PM)pally Wrote: If we bust teacher's unions can we do the same with police unions?  

Like I said, I'm not a fan of unions but these two are not the same so why do you bring it up? Just curious. 

[*pally*]

(08-24-2023, 05:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Like I said, I'm not a fan of unions but these two are not the same so why do you bring it up? Just curious. 

Because I see similarities in the arguments against them?

Why do you think they are different?  I mean both groups do represent public service employees

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 05:22 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I'm assuming that farm shop is different than FFA?

Yes. Farm shop is/was a class, taken for credit. Like the automotive guys, we had our own garage and'
repaired trucks, tractors, and bailers and such. Studied agriculture--cows and wheat.

So separate from FFA, but the teacher was the FFA sponsor, and most of the students joined'
FFA. Me too. Hand dipped in green paint and all.

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 05:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Serious question

Do you think money for schools should come (be decided how it is dispersed) from the federal government?

Or should the money be sent to each state and let them decide how to spend it?

As for now, it is the federal teacher's union dictating the money. I would argue, they are in fact the problem. Teacher's are and will never be the issue, it is the leaders at the top like Weingartner who need to be shown the door.

Is there a "federal" teachers union? Guess I don't know much about this. 

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 06:24 PM)pally Wrote: Because I see similarities in the arguments against them?

Why do you think they are different?  I mean both groups do represent public service employees

I asked because I have not heard about issues with the police union. As for the teachers, there are great ones out there, but there are also some who couldn’t give a damn about the kids. The bad ones need to go, but the unions make it very difficult. So, if you’re talking the same point about police unions, then I agree. 

[HarleyDog]

(08-24-2023, 06:56 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes. Farm shop is/was a class, taken for credit. Like the automotive guys, we had our own garage and'
repaired trucks, tractors, and bailers and such. Studied agriculture--cows and wheat.

So separate from FFA, but the teacher was the FFA sponsor, and most of the students joined'
FFA. Me too. Hand dipped in green paint and all.

I would have enjoyed a class like that. You know, it’s not always specifically about a certain task, as much as it is learning how things work and developing skills to problem solve.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-24-2023, 05:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Serious question

Do you think money for schools should come (be decided how it is dispersed) from the federal government?

Or should the money be sent to each state and let them decide how to spend it?

As for now, it is the federal teacher's union dictating the money. I would argue, they are in fact the problem. Teacher's are and will never be the issue, it is the leaders at the top like Weingartner who need to be shown the door.

Fed, and i think the control at the State level should disappear.
The Fed should setup guidelines for what each grade level and that should become universal across the US, that way if a kid moves from one state to another then he's right where he should be education wise. Not behind or ahead of his peers in his new school.

[Dill]

(08-24-2023, 07:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I would have enjoyed a class like that. You know, it’s not always specifically about a certain task, as much as it is learning how things work and developing skills to problem solve.

I sure enjoyed it. Welding was fun. I only ever used that knowledge once on the job, though.

We had to memorize about 26 varieties of chickens, ratios of cattle to pasture, stuff like that.
After that class I could recognize almost every plant and weed in our region.

I worked in agriculture till I was 20, so it was useful.  A rancher/farmer has to be a carpenter, 
mechanic, electrician and a veterinarian, as well as knowing about horses, cattle, pigs, sheep, and planting
and harvesting. So they taught pretty much everything.* So I always thought we had more'
variety than the guys taking automotive classes.  The teacher was a very witty/sarcastic guy too. 
Sadly I've forgotten most of it. 

*modification--they INTRODUCED me to all that stuff. No way you could learn that all in a HS class.
I think you have to grow up on a ranch/farm to really understand how to operate one. School just helps.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-24-2023, 05:18 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: It's well known I am not a huge fan of unions. I don't hate them, but don't care for them.

Private sector unions are acceptable.

Government sector unions should be illegal. Even FDR said this!