The big 3 is the problem

[muskiesfan]

(11-15-2017, 03:51 PM)McC Wrote: I truly wish McCarron would play a game, just so all this talk would go away.  And it would go away.  In 2015, with the same cast of players with which Andy was having an MVP season, McCarron did nothing close.  He beat a couple chump teams and went to great lengths to turnover the playoff game away. 

I would relish the chance to see him behind this line.  And then all this nonsense would end.

While I agree with your sentiment, you have the McCarron crowd all wrong. If he were to play a game, every reason that is hurting Dalton this year would be used as excuses as to why McCarron is not succeeding. The people that are dying for McCarron to play hate Andy Dalton. The simple fact a QB other than Dalton would be under center is all it would take for them to start crying about the OLine, the running game, the lack of separation, and the piss poor coaching. The McCarron fans are the ones that constantly ignore any issues he had in 2015 and rest their hats on the playoff game.

It's obvious that a lot of the people that want McCarron to play just hate Dalton. They ignore any and every issue with the team and place all of the blame at Dalton's feet. If McCarron were the starter this year, those same "excuses" they are say are used for Dalton would be the same ones they would be using for McCarron. A lot of these fans aren't looking at this from a football perspective or using any sort or logic or reason. They just simply don't want Dalton as the QB. A lot of them are the same fans that wanted Gradkowski and Johnson to start over Dalton and will most likely be calling for Driskel to take over after McCarron leaves. They're the same people who have wanted the team to draft a QB every year, still ***** about not drafting Kaepernick, Mallet, or Watson, and will not support Andy Dalton at all. They are also the same people who cry conspiracy theories about Burfict even though he continues to do dumb ass things.

McCarron going out and laying egg would not change their opinion whatsoever.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-15-2017, 05:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: While I agree with your sentiment, you have the McCarron crowd all wrong. If he were to play a game, every reason that is hurting Dalton this year would be used as excuses as to why McCarron is not succeeding. The people that are dying for McCarron to play hate Andy Dalton. The simple fact a QB other than Dalton would be under center is all it would take for them to start crying about the OLine, the running game, the lack of separation, and the piss poor coaching. The McCarron fans are the ones that constantly ignore any issues he had in 2015 and rest their hats on the playoff game.

It's obvious that a lot of the people that want McCarron to play just hate Dalton. They ignore any and every issue with the team and place all of the blame at Dalton's feet. If McCarron were the starter this year, those same "excuses" they are say are used for Dalton would be the same ones they would be using for McCarron. A lot of these fans aren't looking at this from a football perspective or using any sort or logic or reason. They just simply don't want Dalton as the QB. A lot of them are the same fans that wanted Gradkowski and Johnson to start over Dalton and will most likely be calling for Driskel to take over after McCarron leaves. They're the same people who have wanted the team to draft a QB every year, still ***** about not drafting Kaepernick, Mallet, or Watson, and will not support Andy Dalton at all. They are also the same people who cry conspiracy theories about Burfict even though he continues to do dumb ass things.

McCarron going out and laying egg would not change their opinion whatsoever.

Yep, if they were truly fans of AJM, they wouldn't want to see him thrashed behind the sieve up front.

[McC]

(11-15-2017, 05:40 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, if they were truly fans of AJM, they wouldn't want to see him thrashed behind the sieve up front.

Good point.  Does that in reality make them McCarron haters?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-15-2017, 05:50 PM)McC Wrote: Good point.  Does that in reality make them McCarron haters?

More like McCarron indifferenters.

[McC]

(11-15-2017, 05:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: More like McCarron indifferenters.

I love it when people invent words that actually sound like words.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-15-2017, 05:50 PM)McC Wrote: Good point.  Does that in reality make them McCarron haters?

No shit, if I liked a guy a whole bunch, and thought he had a chance to make it in this league, I'd either A) hope the Bungals fix the line first, or B) hope he got traded to a competent organization.

[McC]

(11-15-2017, 05:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: No shit, if I liked a guy a whole bunch, and thought he had a chance to make it in this league, I'd either A) hope the Bungals fix the line first, or B) hope he got traded to a competent organization.

I give him lots of credit for poise and courage.  But honestly, his best assets are the intangibles.  His tangibles are pretty average.

Funny how the Big 3 thread was really just the Big 1 in sheep's clothing.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-15-2017, 05:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: McCarron going out and laying egg would not change their opinion whatsoever.

You're right that the line, receivers, run game, coaching etc would suddenly become valid excuses.

They'd also change how they evaluate QB play. If McCarron had a 100 rating with a couple TDs, they wouldn't be dissecting 2-3 incompletions or bad throws and suggesting he had a bad game. They'd just point to the stats...which would suddenly be more relevant (if they're good stats).

I mean, wasn't this Titans game similar to the Steelers playoff game? Dalton not only made the throw that got us the lead late, he also had WAY better stats than McCarron did in that game. But Mac's performance is praised, while Dalton's is roasted. In fact, they blame Dalton for the defense playing poorly.

[grampahol]

It's official. My feelings are hurt so I'm going to demand that anyone who ever hurts anyones feelings be permanently banned and have names and faces plastered on social media as pariahs of feeling hurters.. 
BAD BAD feeling hurters! 

[bengalsturntup5532]

Actually let's just call it like it is. There are diehard Dalton fans who will wait years for him to succeed till he basically retires. And there's fans who are not impressed with the 7 long years they've seen him and don't think he is the answer and ready for someone new. That's all it comes down too.

There is no possible way to determine if McCarron would do better or go farther then Andy Dalton right now. He would need atleast a couple years starting under his belt to make any kind of comparison. Furthermore McCarron came in cold,they have no contact practices,and the backup doesn't get time with the starters.he was thrown into battle and didn't do bad for himself. He almost beat the Superbowl champs ,and came the closest to win a playoff game compared to Andy Dalton. I don't see how anyone can disagree with any of that.

There are fans that said that year on Facebook in my group that if McCarron won us a ring that year then the job goes back to Andy. There are fans who will go to their grave saying Dalton wasn't a problem. That's what you call a Dalton lover. There are fans that want to just be right and say I told you so. There are fans that if Dalton went somewhere else,they'd secretly just follow him and root for his team to win.am I wrong?

[muskiesfan]

(11-16-2017, 01:45 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Actually let's just call it like it is. There are diehard Dalton fans who will wait years for him to succeed till he basically retires. And there's fans who are not impressed with the 7 long years they've seen him and don't think he is the answer and ready for someone new. That's all it comes down too.

There is no possible way to determine if McCarron would do better or go farther then Andy Dalton right now. He would need atleast a couple years starting under his belt to make any kind of comparison. Furthermore McCarron came in cold,they have no contact practices,and the backup doesn't get time with the starters.he was thrown into battle and didn't do bad for himself. He almost beat the Superbowl champs ,and came the closest to win a playoff game compared to Andy Dalton. I don't see how anyone can disagree with any of that.

There are fans that said that year on Facebook in my group that if McCarron won us a ring that year then the job goes back to Andy.  There are fans who will go to their grave saying Dalton wasn't a problem. That's what you call a Dalton lover. There are fans that want to just be right and say I told you so. There are fans that if Dalton went somewhere else,they'd secretly just follow him and root for his team to win.am I wrong?

If/when Andy Dalton plays for another team, yes I will continue to follow him. Yes, I am a fan of Andy Dalton. I think he is a good QB.

I'm a fan of AJ McCarron. He's a QB for my Bengals, so obviously I'm a fan. I just don't think he gives the team a better chance to win than Andy Dalton. That's not hate or anything like that. I feel the correct QB is starting for the team.

Where you keep getting it messed up is that I would have no problem upgrading at QB. I don't see McCarron as an upgrade. If the team wants to draft your next hard-on player (Mayfeild), I have no problem with that. Just don't be surprised if he has to sit a year or two as well.

A lot of the "Dalton lovers" "Andy's Army" and all of this other stuff you call us agree with me. They don't mind upgrading over Dalton. It's just not as easy as the Cult of McCarron thinks it is (I can make up names too). Andy is better than the McCarron fans give him credit for. McCarron is not an upgrade. That doesn't mean people that are supporting Andy are strictly fans of Dalton, they just understand that he's the best QB on the roster right now. If the Bengals bring in a QB that is an upgrade to Dalton, I have no problem moving forward with the new QB. It's just not that easy. It may take a couple of swings and misses before that QB is found.

I think what's even funnier is all the hate Dalton gets from the McCarron crowd when the NFL QB that McCarron was always compared to was Andy Dalton.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-15-2017, 06:05 PM)McC Wrote: I give him lots of credit for poise and courage.  But honestly, his best assets are the intangibles.  His tangibles are pretty average.

Funny how the Big 3 thread was really just the Big 1 in sheep's clothing.

They usually are.......

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2017, 01:45 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Actually let's just call it like it is. There are diehard Dalton fans who will wait years for him to succeed till he basically retires. And there's fans who are not impressed with the 7 long years they've seen him and don't think he is the answer and ready for someone new. That's all it comes down too.

There is no possible way to determine if McCarron would do better or go farther then Andy Dalton right now. He would need atleast a couple years starting under his belt to make any kind of comparison. Furthermore McCarron came in cold,they have no contact practices,and the backup doesn't get time with the starters.he was thrown into battle and didn't do bad for himself. He almost beat the Superbowl champs ,and came the closest to win a playoff game compared to Andy Dalton. I don't see how anyone can disagree with any of that.

There are fans that said that year on Facebook in my group that if McCarron won us a ring that year then the job goes back to Andy.  There are fans who will go to their grave saying Dalton wasn't a problem. That's what you call a Dalton lover. There are fans that want to just be right and say I told you so. There are fans that if Dalton went somewhere else,they'd secretly just follow him and root for his team to win.am I wrong?

This statement rang true in 2015.....when we had good protection, pretty good surrounding talent, and at least somewhat of a semblance of a run game.  In 2017, I can almost guarantee you he would be worse.  That's not a knock on AJ at all.  That's just looking objectively at film, scouting reports, etc.  He holds the ball too long, has too long of a "windup" and takes too long to make a read behind a line this bad.  Give him time, and he could be serviceable at the very least.  This is more of an indictment of how badly the FO has bungled up the roster the last few years, and the piss poor blocking scheme/talent.

As for beating the Super Bowl champs.....lest we forget, he fumbled that game away. In other words, he "Bengaled it". I really think the staff is too conservative and too scared/timid, and it rubs off on everyone. Even AJ. Both of them at times.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-16-2017, 01:45 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Actually let's just call it like it is. There are diehard Dalton fans who will wait years for him to succeed till he basically retires. And there's fans who are not impressed with the 7 long years they've seen him and don't think he is the answer and ready for someone new. That's all it comes down too.

There is no possible way to determine if McCarron would do better or go farther then Andy Dalton right now. He would need atleast a couple years starting under his belt to make any kind of comparison. Furthermore McCarron came in cold,they have no contact practices,and the backup doesn't get time with the starters.he was thrown into battle and didn't do bad for himself. He almost beat the Superbowl champs ,and came the closest to win a playoff game compared to Andy Dalton. I don't see how anyone can disagree with any of that.

There are fans that said that year on Facebook in my group that if McCarron won us a ring that year then the job goes back to Andy.  There are fans who will go to their grave saying Dalton wasn't a problem. That's what you call a Dalton lover. There are fans that want to just be right and say I told you so. There are fans that if Dalton went somewhere else,they'd secretly just follow him and root for his team to win.am I wrong?

It's more than that. I think a lot of fans on this board remember how bad the 90's were and how long we searched for a QB and while they know Dalton isn't the best, he's not 90's level bad either.

Yes - Some fans on this board are content with making the playoffs with 9-10 wins and losing and consider that a successful season. I'm not one of them, but I think a decent percentage of posters are.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2017, 01:45 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: Actually let's just call it like it is. There are diehard Dalton fans who will wait years for him to succeed till he basically retires. And there's fans who are not impressed with the 7 long years they've seen him and don't think he is the answer and ready for someone new. That's all it comes down too.

Actually, what it is is there are people who don't understand the NFL and claim an obviously above average QB to be "the" problem on this team. And there are those who recognize that he's not great, but good enough to win with who are forced to defend him from those that make up shit about him.

In other words, you have Dalton haters vs Dalton defenders but in your mind defender = lover. Now sure I like the guy, but if a better QB was available, I'd have no problem upgrading as would most Dalton defenders.

(11-16-2017, 01:45 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: There is no possible way to determine if McCarron would do better or go farther then Andy Dalton right now. He would need atleast a couple years starting under his belt to make any kind of comparison. Furthermore McCarron came in cold,they have no contact practices,and the backup doesn't get time with the starters.he was thrown into battle and didn't do bad for himself. He almost beat the Superbowl champs ,and came the closest to win a playoff game compared to Andy Dalton. I don't see how anyone can disagree with any of that.

"Almost beat" someone? You mean he still lost? You crack me up. Dalton's almost beat most of the teams he's faced this year, but you still claim him to be a problem. Make up your mind about when "almost beat"ing someone is acceptable or not.

(11-16-2017, 01:45 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: 1) There are fans that said that year on Facebook in my group that if McCarron won us a ring that year then the job goes back to Andy.  2)There are fans who will go to their grave saying Dalton wasn't a problem. That's what you call a Dalton lover. 3) There are fans that want to just be right and say I told you so. 4) There are fans that if Dalton went somewhere else,they'd secretly just follow him and root for his team to win.am I wrong?

1) Who knows? Merv likes to think he's old school so he probably would make Andy the starter because of the old "you don't lose your job to injury" but it's Merv so we probably never had a chance to win the Super Bowl anyway
2) Dalton has his issues. So does EVERY QB. You know why Peyton Manning doesn't have more Super Bowl wins and appearances? Because his biggest issue is moving before the snap. If the defense moves a lot before the snap, he always had a hard time reading the defense. Sometimes he'd overcome, many times he wouldn't. Doesn't mean Peyton was "a problem." Same with Dalton, except he has a few more issues than Peyton. However, Dalton has shown we can win with him as evidenced by the fact that HE'S WON MORE GAMES THAN HE'S LOST. Ergo, he's not a problem.
3) Yes, there are and I have a feeling you're one of them.
4) I'm sure there are. Most of the Dalton defenders talking to you, though, are like me and like the guy but are fans of the Bengals first above any player.

(11-16-2017, 09:22 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: A lot of the "Dalton lovers" "Andy's Army" and all of this other stuff you call us agree with me. They don't mind upgrading over Dalton. It's just not as easy as the Cult of McCarron thinks it is (I can make up names too). Andy is better than the McCarron fans give him credit for. McCarron is not an upgrade. That doesn't mean people that are supporting Andy are strictly fans of Dalton, they just understand that he's the best QB on the roster right now. If the Bengals bring in a QB that is an upgrade to Dalton, I have no problem moving forward with the new QB. It's just not that easy. It may take a couple of swings and misses before that QB is found.

This right here should be the end of the thread but somehow I doubt it will be.

[*bfine32*]

I am getting the vibe that if we go with AJM there is a population here that would enjoy seeing him fail; so they can sat "told Ya"?

I personally have not called for AJM to start; however, if we did I would hope he does very well.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2017, 03:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am getting the vibe that if we go with AJM there is a population here that would enjoy seeing him fail; so they can sat "told Ya"?

I personally have not called for AJM to start; however, if we did I would hope he does very well.

I won't speak for everyone, but there is a difference between EXPECTING him to fail and HOPING he would fail.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2017, 03:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am getting the vibe that if we go with AJM there is a population here that would enjoy seeing him fail; so they can sat "told Ya"?

I personally have not called for AJM to start; however, if we did I would hope he does very well.

I would too, I just don't think he can here unless he has learned to get the ball out quicker.  Personally, if we're going to be able to trade AJ, I don't want anyone in the NFL evaluating him behind this crapfest up front....I'd rather them look at 2015 film.  If we're considering trading Dalton, put him out there now.

[*bfine32*]

(11-16-2017, 03:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I won't speak for everyone, but there is a difference between EXPECTING him to fail and HOPING he would fail.

So you're saying folks would not enjoy their EXPECTATIONS being correct?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2017, 03:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you're saying folks would not enjoy their EXPECTATIONS being correct?

Let me answer your question with a question: if you expect the Bengals to lose this Sunday and they do lose, would YOU enjoy your expectations being correct?