This looks like it could get serious

[samhain]

I put the chances of this DOJ pursuing Obama at about 0.0. When the Trumpers are finally gone, there will be plenty for their successor to investigate and rehash if the so choose, and I doubt that DJT wants any part of that becoming a reality. Once he's out and no longer gets to appoint his own DOJ officials and AG, his layer of protection is gone, and he'll have set a precedent for future admins to weaponize their DOJs in pursuit of his own.

There's a reason administrations don't go after their predecessors. I'd think it would be an even more relevant reason to this hyper corrupt one than any.

All Barr and Trump want is a way to make sure that nobody can come after him or his people in the future. Much like the other Republican fishing expeditions, this one's just a far right wet dream, much like the others that we've seen play out over and over.

[Belsnickel]

Let's just be straight forward. This whole situation, the Flynn thing, dredging up the unmasking situation, it's just trying to distract from the utter failures going on in the White House. Things aren't going well with Trump's leadership, so these things are intended to fire up the base and rally them against the other side. They're hoping to obfuscate the shit show long enough to win reelection in November.

[Dill]

(05-12-2020, 02:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: To be fair, who could have predicted the White House would turn into reality television?

I think it’s safe to say we all missed the signs.

What signs!? 

Even to the most astute observers in 2015, Trump seemed an upstanding family man backed by an impressive history of above-board financial transactions with clients and other businesses, and an enviable competence in bankruptcy law and international banking, who had for years proved prescient about policy matters--especially foreign policy.



Finally, there he was, elected and ready to expose the Kenyan who had been doing it all wrong.

Then out of nowhere--foxes appointed to cabinet henhouses, embarassing Kim summits, the Iran Deal blown up, TTP and Paris Accords down the tubes, the end-around our own intel for Russia and consequent obstruction of justice, Stormy Daniels+Hollywood access+ 22 accusers of sexual assault/rape, foreign aid diverted to help his own re-election, six national security advisors, five WH press secretaries and four chiefs of staff in three years, impeachment, and the bleach cure for COV-19--

WHO SAW THAT COMING!?!?

I share your astonishment, Breech. It's like some grifter lived a sterling life for six decades just to take the US voters wholly by surprise, then managed to keep the con in place for 3 years.

[Dill]

(05-12-2020, 02:35 PM)samhain Wrote: I put the chances of this DOJ pursuing Obama at about 0.0. 

I put the chances of NWD, Drudge, Newsmax, Fox Breitbart and OAN generating thousands of articles about Obamagate over the next decade at 100%.

Trump supporters will continue to post and repost reports of all the new "boy-just-you-wait" facts coming out confirming all the "emerging details" NWD, DRudge, Newsmax, Fox and Breitbart were reporting three years ago.

(05-12-2020, 02:35 PM)samhain Wrote: When the Trumpers are finally gone, there will be plenty for their successor to investigate and rehash if the so choose, and I doubt that DJT wants any part of that becoming a reality.  Once he's out and no longer gets to appoint his own DOJ officials and AG, his layer of protection is gone, and he'll have set a precedent for future admins to weaponize their DOJs in pursuit of his own.

There's a reason administrations don't go after their predecessors.  I'd think it would be an even more relevant reason to this hyper corrupt one than any.  

All Barr and Trump want is a way to make sure that nobody can come after him or his people in the future.  Much like the other Republican fishing expeditions, this one's just a far right wet dream, much like the others that we've seen play out over and over.

If Trump loses, then I think no incoming AG will weaponize the DOJ again. (Maybe further into the future, though?) There will be a show of returning that department to its independent status. Democrats won't support Barr-style flouting of rule of law, even when their guy is in office.

Barr and Trump are scared of what might be found once someone else is in charge of the DOJ, for sure. But I think their current shennanigans are likely to generate more corruption than hide existing.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-12-2020, 03:45 PM)Dill Wrote: What signs!? 

Even to the most astute observers in 2015, Trump seemed an upstanding family man backed by an impressive history of above-board financial transactions with clients and other businesses, and an enviable competence in bankruptcy law and international banking, who had for years proved prescient about policy matters--especially foreign policy.



Finally, there he was, elected and ready to expose the Kenyan who had been doing it all wrong.

Then out of nowhere--foxes appointed to cabinet henhouses, embarassing Kim summits, the Iran Deal blown up, TTP and Paris Accords down the tubes, the end-around our own intel for Russia and consequent obstruction of justice, Stormy Daniels+Hollywood access+ 22 accusers of sexual assault/rape, foreign aid diverted to help his own re-election, six national security advisors, five WH press secretaries and four chiefs of staff in three years, impeachment, and the bleach cure for COV-19--

WHO SAW THAT COMING!?!?

I share your astonishment, Breech. It's like some grifter lived a sterling life for six decades just to take the US voters wholly by surprise, then managed to keep the con in place for 3 years.

I can’t wait for the MTV White House/Jersey Shore Celebrity Challenge.

[*bfine32*]

Quote:You might as well give up at this point...

You’re trying to reason with the same group that’s perfectly ok with voting for Joe Biden, a man with a very questionable past of racism and sexual assault allegations who can’t remember what day it is or what state he’s currently in.  3 years of false headlines proved wrong over and over again and they are still at it.  A bunch of 12 o’clock flashers if I’ve seen one.

Well to be fair Trump has been accused of everything that you accuse Biden of. It's just the Trump accusations are worse because TRUMP! The absolute irony is: The party that has spent the last 4 years shaking their fists and clutching their pearls over Trump are about to nominate the closest thing they could find to him. 

As to the OP: POTUS shouldn't have to everyone about everything. There's about 5 folks alive that know what it's like and not one of them are in this forum 

[hollodero]

(05-12-2020, 06:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well to be fair Trump has been accused of everything that you accuse Biden of. It's just the Trump accusations are worse because TRUMP! 

Well, there's THAT! and there's also the fact that those were in fact worse.

There's Trump on tape talking about grabbing genitals, for God's sake. There's more with Trump, for example an established history of misogyny, but that alone should do it. When there's tape of Biden talking about grabbing women, then there's a point in calling out "irony".

Or do you think Biden is close to Trump because he's so racist as well? Really? Has Biden ever scorned a judge for having a Mexican name? Has Biden ever told someone he disagreed with to "go home where they came from"? Has Biden... I mean... this list is endless. Biden, he wanted a bussing bill done differently decades back and some racist senator called him "boy" decades ago. And that's the Biden raciswm story, of the guy all blacks vote for. What a racist. All the same, really.

And if we were to compare dumb stuff said... well that would be too much fun right now.

[*bfine32*]

(05-12-2020, 07:22 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, there's THAT! and there's also the fact that those were in fact worse.

There's Trump on tape talking about grabbing genitals, for God's sake. There's more with Trump, for example an established history of misogyny, but that alone should do it. When there's tape of Biden talking about grabbing women, then there's a point in calling out "irony".

Or do you think Biden is close to Trump because he's so racist as well? Really? Has Biden ever scorned a judge for having a Mexican name? Has Biden ever told someone he disagreed with to "go home where they came from"? Has Biden... I mean... this list is endless. Biden, he wanted a bussing bill done differently decades back and some racist senator called him "boy" decades ago. And that's the Biden raciswm story, of the guy all blacks vote for. What a racist. All the same, really.

And if we were to compare dumb stuff said... well that would be too much fun right now.

Why did you not quote and respond to the Party nominating the closest thing they could find to Trump. 

Of course Trump's is worse because TRUMP!  He talked to a fellow TV personality. All we have on Biden is the creepy photos and a former employee using the word rape. Not nearly as bad as someone that has never established a relationship saying Trump touched her on a plane decades ago. 

But yeah. let's but levels or "worse" on such actions/accusations because whe like one more than the other/ 

[BrownAssClown]

174 days. 6 hours. 21 minutes.

[GMDino]

(05-12-2020, 07:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did you not quote and respond to the Party nominating the closest thing they could find to Trump. 

Of course Trump's is worse because TRUMP!  He talked to a fellow TV personality. All we have on Biden is the creepy photos and a former employee using the word rape. Not nearly as bad as someone that has never established a relationship saying Trump touched her on a plane decades ago. 

But yeah. let's but levels or "worse" on such actions/accusations because whe like one more than the other/ 

"locker room talk" LMAO!

What a partisan hack.

Anyway...

https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

At least 25 women have accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct since the 1970s.


But, please, continue with how one woman used the word "rape" and the only reason people think Trump is worse is because he is Trump.

[BmorePat87]

(05-12-2020, 07:41 PM)GMDino Wrote:

"locker room talk" LMAO!

What a partisan hack.

Anyway...

https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

At least 25 women have accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct since the 1970s.


But, please, continue with how one woman used the word "rape" and the only reason people think Trump is worse is because he is Trump.

There's also the responses. Trump called women too ugly for him to assault and had his lawyer argue that it's not rape if it's your wife. Biden called for an investigation.

[Belsnickel]

(05-12-2020, 07:41 PM)GMDino Wrote:

"locker room talk" LMAO!

What a partisan hack.

Anyway...

https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

At least 25 women have accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct since the 1970s.


But, please, continue with how one woman used the word "rape" and the only reason people think Trump is worse is because he is Trump.

(05-12-2020, 07:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There's also the responses. Trump called women too ugly for him to assault and had his lawyer argue that it's not rape if it's your wife. Biden called for an investigation.

None of this matters. It's pure TDS.

[Dill]

(05-12-2020, 07:22 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, there's THAT! and there's also the fact that those were in fact worse.

There's Trump on tape talking about grabbing genitals, for God's sake. There's more with Trump, for example an established history of misogyny, but that alone should do it. When there's tape of Biden talking about grabbing women, then there's a point in calling out "irony".

Or do you think Biden is close to Trump because he's so racist as well? Really? Has Biden ever scorned a judge for having a Mexican name? Has Biden ever told someone he disagreed with to "go home where they came from"? Has Biden... I mean... this list is endless. Biden, he wanted a bussing bill done differently decades back and some racist senator called him "boy" decades ago. And that's the Biden raciswm story, of the guy all blacks vote for. What a racist. All the same, really.

And if we were to compare dumb stuff said... well that would be too much fun right now.

He is aware of all those details. And more. 

The question is why, in his eyes, Biden, who has no bankruptcies on his record, no fixers handing checks to porn stars, never believed Obama was born in Kenya or praised Alex Jones, does not insult prisoners of war or suggest his accusers were too ugly to assault, and has no problem making his tax returns public, and no praise for Putin or Kim or Duterte, is "the closest thing to Trump."  What are the criteria for comparison?

Perhaps he is right, if one grants that Biden is not very close, but maybe closer than Sanders or Yang or Bloomberg or Elizabeth Warren or Hillary. Otherwise, there is no closest thing to Trump, even on the other side.

But full on equivalence seems the goal here. Bragging about grabbing P or mocking a disabled reporter or calling women ugly is bad "because Trump."  Not because "bad-no-matter-who-does-it."

The trump defender's separation of Trump from consequences of his own behavior--consequences which would fall upon any other person guilty of such actions--seems projected onto Trump critics, who don't "hate" him for the myriad hateworthy things he actually does, but because in some mystical metaphysical sense he is  "just Trump." 

How can we tell? Because an assault accusation lodged against Biden is currently being vetted, and he has already been accused of unasked for shoulder massages. And the liberals' partisan blinders don't let them see Biden is no better and no worse than a P-grabber with 20+ assault accusations, including rapes, all dismissed with insults to his accusers--a chorus of insults, really, as supporters jump in to defend their guy.

This very dim irony entails this implication: The liberals would be fine with Biden if he called women "ugly" in ferocious blood tweets and Mexicans "rapists" just because they like him more than Trump. Same for Trump's documented abuses of power.

[*bfine32*]

(05-12-2020, 07:41 PM)GMDino Wrote:

"locker room talk" LMAO!

What a partisan hack.

Anyway...

https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

At least 25 women have accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct since the 1970s.


But, please, continue with how one woman used the word "rape" and the only reason people think Trump is worse is because he is Trump.

(05-12-2020, 07:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There's also the responses. Trump called women too ugly for him to assault and had his lawyer argue that it's not rape if it's your wife. Biden called for an investigation.

(05-12-2020, 08:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: None of this matters. It's pure TDS.

It truly has gotten sad. Good luck with your defense of Biden and "he's not AS bad" in  our book. 

Did anyone ever answer why the Dems picked the candidate as close to Trump as they could find? 

We rally against and clutch our pearls as we are aghast at the actions of a man that spent the majority of his life as a celebrity. Yet the party of virtue have trotted out Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden the last couple of cycles. 

Personally, I liked Mayor Pete and Klobachar; as they were fairly moderate and seemed like good people. Biden is fairly moderate but he is no "better" person than Trump. I wonder how many of you will refer to Biden as Cadet Assmar. I'll but the over-under and 1 and take the under. 

[hollodero]

(05-12-2020, 07:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did you not quote and respond to the Party nominating the closest thing they could find to Trump. 

Of course Trump's is worse because TRUMP!  He talked to a fellow TV personality. All we have on Biden is the creepy photos and a former employee using the word rape. Not nearly as bad as someone that has never established a relationship saying Trump touched her on a plane decades ago. 

But yeah. let's but levels or "worse" on such actions/accusations because whe like one more than the other/ 

I don't respond to the "closest thing on Trump" comment because it is too bizarre to even comment. I used a nice word here. I'm not exactly thinking one. What is there to respond? What a disingenuous point, that would be my response to that if you need one. Have fun with it.

You also agreed to call Biden "the closest to Trump" on the grounds of "a questionable past on racism". Which is also "bizarre". You did not comment on that part of my posting, since you were too busy pointing out all the precious words of yours I did not address. Actually, you do that quite often. Responding to a singular thing and ignoring the most parts someone said. Which is fine with me, except for your permanent calling out others on that exact same thing. It's really like the thing you do with accusing others of blatant bias. Or disingenuity. Or double standards.

Aside from that, I go with Dino's response.

[*bfine32*]

(05-12-2020, 09:41 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't respond to the "closest thing on Trump" comment because it is too bizarre to even comment. I used a nice word here. I'm not exactly thinking one. What is there to respond? What a disingenuous point, that would be my response to that if you need one. Have fun with it.

You also agreed to call Biden "the closest to Trump" on the grounds of "a questionable past on racism". Which is also "bizarre". You did not comment on that part of my posting, since you were too busy pointing out all the precious words of yours I did not address. Actually, you do that quite often. Responding to a singular thing and ignoring the most parts someone said. Which is fine with me, except four your permanent calling out others on that exact same thing. It's really like the thing you do with accusing others of blatant bias. Or disingenuity. Or double standards.

Aside from that, I go with Dino's response.

Which DEM POTUS candidate was closer to Trump than Cadet Assmar?

[hollodero]

(05-12-2020, 09:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Which DEM POTUS candidate was closer to Trump than Cadet Assmar?

First, forgive my honesty, but this is just a stupid question. Also, Bloomberg.

Third, great job ignoring stuff again.

Fourth, Biden is not ideal by a long stretch in my view also. He is better than Trump in so may ways. Racial issues sure among them. Also, personality. He is not a blatant egomaniac, his message isn't hate filled, he would never call the press enemy of the people, he will never call FBI agents scum and traitors and demand long jail sentences, he will never tweet all these indecent things Trump tweets. He will surround himself with competent people instead of clueless corrupt sycophants. He will not fall in love with Kim or agree with Putin over his own intelligence, he will not accuse medical staff of stealing masks or call voter fraud when he loses an election, he will... I mean, yeah this list can go on forever. Forever and ever.

Now specifically on the women's issue, here's why Biden, amongst other things, is better than Trump. It's because of Trump, mainly. Biden doesn't have a history of shaming women on looks or weight, or calling them dogs or horseface or bimbos or big fat pigs, or suggesting we all watch a nonexisting porn tape of someone he doesn't like. He never accused a critical journalist of bleeding badly from a face-lift. He never said about a women that "Blood was coming out of her eyes, out of her whatever". Biden also held zero miss universe pageants, he never said about one of his female opponents "just look at that face, would anyone vote for that?" like Trump did. He never told how hot Macron's wife is, or how a man was right to leave a woman for her unattractiveness. Sure sad that Biden has no daughter, or else it could be proven that he would never have mused about dating her. Biden also doesn't post pictures of his opponent's wife in a disgusting attempt to shame him based on her looks. He would never fake a Lisa Page orgasm on stage either. Yeah, Trump did that too, no kidding. Oh, not to forget Biden never is on tape with a fellow TV personality saying I grab them by the *** like all the time. Have I mentioned he does not betray his wife with porn stars?
On the specific topic of having allegations against oneself, on that one point Biden should probably not focus on. That much sadly is true. There's still all this rest though. Have fun ignoring it with a one-liner pointing out something I didn't address.

[*bfine32*]

(05-12-2020, 10:19 PM)hollodero Wrote: First, forgive my honesty, but this is just a stupid question. Also, Bloomberg.

Third, great job ignoring stuff again.

Fourth, Biden is not ideal by a long stretch in my view also. He is better than Trump in so may ways. Racial issues sure among them. Also, personality. He is not a blatant egomaniac, his message isn't hate filled, he would never call the press enemy of the people, he will never call FBI agents scum and traitors and demand long jail sentences, he will never tweet all these indecent things Trump tweets. He will surround himself with competent people instead of clueless corrupt sycophants. He will not fall in love with Kim or agree with Putin over his own intelligence, he will not accuse medical staff of stealing masks or call voter fraud when he loses an election, he will... I mean, yeah this list can go on forever. Forever and ever.

Now specifically on the women's issue, here's why Biden, amongst other things, is better than Trump. It's because of Trump, mainly. Biden doesn't have a history of shaming women on looks or weight, or calling them dogs or horseface or bimbos or big fat pigs, or suggesting we all watch a nonexisting porn tape of someone he doesn't like. He never accused a critical journalist of bleeding badly from a face-lift. He never said about a women that "Blood was coming out of her eyes, out of her whatever". Biden also held zero miss universe pageants, he never said about one of his female opponents "just look at that face, would anyone vote for that?" like Trump did. He never told how hot Macron's wife is, or how a man was right to leave a woman for her unattractiveness. Sure sad that Biden has no daughter, or else it could be proven that he would never have mused about dating her. Biden also doesn't post pictures of his opponent's wife in a disgusting attempt to shame him based on her looks. He would never fake a Lisa Page orgasm on stage either. Yeah, Trump did that too, no kidding. Oh, not to forget Biden never is on tape with a fellow TV personality saying I grab them by the *** like all the time. Have I mentioned he does not betray his wife with porn stars?
On the specific topic of having allegations against oneself, on that one point Biden should probably not focus on. That much sadly is true. There's still all this rest though. Have fun ignoring it with a one-liner pointing out something I didn't address.

The "one liner" is to show another of many similarities (draft dodging). That also include: Allegations of sexual misconduct, conduct categorized as racist, using position of authority to find lucrative employment for offspring, old, white, male....

Anything that has been ignored is because it deals with Trump on a thread talking about possible corruption during the Obama administration. Yes, a thread about possible Obama admin corruption quickly turned to how bad Trump is..Who the hell could have seen that coming from a mile away? What's that term Matt used...TDS?

It's really not worth discussing. Folks tried to shame Trump voters because they found him "less flawed" than Hills, yet those same people support Biden because they feel Biden is less flawed. My apologies to the OP for my part in derailing from the subject of the thread. 

[hollodero]

(05-12-2020, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The "one liner" is to show another of many similarities (draft dodging). That also include: Allegations of sexual misconduct, conduct categorized as racist, using position of authority to find lucrative employment for offspring, old, white, male....

I disagree on the racist part. The Hunter thing is a red flag for me too. I am not so sure he misused his position of authority though, there's no clear indication of that. As stated many times, could have easily been Burisma's own idea to get Hunter.
The rest is true, eg. he is old and white. It also really means nothing, and most certainly not that Democrats wanted someone as close to Trump as possible. What are you expecting them to do, to exclude all white men for being too similar to Trump? Also, the rape accusations only came out after he was nominated, so no one voted for that. Also no one would have voted for him on grounds of that in the first place, no one was like "allegations of rape? Hey, just like Trump! I like that! I vote for Joe now!" - Your whole point is utterly pointless. But the real amazing thing is how you try to point to a liberal double standard here, while overlooking the glaring conservative double standard that comes with slamming Biden on these things in the first place.

(05-12-2020, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Anything that has been ignored is because it deals with Trump on a thread talking about possible corruption during the Obama administration. Yes, a thread about possible Obama admin corruption quickly turned to how bad Trump is..Who the hell could have seen that coming from a mile away? What's that term Matt used...TDS?

So we're back to calling people deranged again.

Also OP literally started with "the presidential admin smelled a rat". And talks about Trump talking points, using Trump phrases like "Russian hoax", deals with Flynn and is strongly rooted in Trump world. Of course this is about him too.
The first reply in this thread dealt with and said everything there was to say regarding Obama unmasking. Not illegal. Beaten to death. Fair response, nuff said.

(05-12-2020, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's really not worth discussing. Folks tried to shame Trump voters because they found him "less flawed" than Hills, yet those same people support Biden because they feel Biden is less flawed.

I don't know about folks. I never shamed Trump voters for voting Trump. I shame Trump voters for being delusional about Trump, for following his asinine theories, for being gullible, for eg. saying he is the one person who does never lie, for being reflexively anti-liberal, for being dishonest, for stuff like that. A honest one that says I go with Trump because abortion, or guns, or marriage, or conservative judges, or tax breaks? I don't like those motivations and I think it's a mistake to not put other issues first, but I am not shaming that person at all. Just as long as he doesn't BS me about Trump.

Honestly, I only could follow that sentence of yours up until that point. What you tried to say with the rest, I do not grasp.
You're right in one respect, the bar of being better than Trump, for me and probably many, is really low. Biden is less flawed, Hillary is less flawed, you and I are less flawed, I'd vote for anyone on these boards over Trump without hesitation. Except for Lucie.

[*bfine32*]

(05-12-2020, 11:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: So we're back to calling people deranged again.

Actually Matt "the guy you assigned fair response and 'nuff said" used the term in this thread long before me, but surprisingly you didn't take exception. It is why I used it.

As to the rest; it's easy to say "I disagree" but it's out there BTW, you didn't address the "one liner" similarity. Let me guess: Assmar is worse than bone spurs.

But yeah.