Time to pump the brakes: the Oline isn't that bad.

[3wt]

(10-01-2016, 02:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: One thing i completely forgot to mention (i was reminded from a comment in another thread), on a couple of occasions, Zeitler pulled left and was slow to get to the point of attack and compounded that by whiffing on his block. 

The Bengals have always been a stronger pull team to the right and for the life of me, i don't understand why they don't do it more. 

Saw that too - at least on the missed touchdown pass to Boyd.  I thought at first that Whit had picked the wrong guy then saw a pulling Zietler lumbering down the line and not getting to his man.   That's the guy who tipped the ball intended for Boyd.

[Beaker]

(09-30-2016, 09:08 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I'll have to take your word cause it sounds like you put in the study time.

In some ways cant Ogbuehi be having a rough transition because Zeitler isn't playing up to par? I cant say I've been watching Zeitler all the time so maybe I'm wrong or maybe he just sticks out because of the false starts.

I think it may be more of the fact that Ogbuehi didnt play all preseason and is basically getting his first rookie snaps. He is replacing a pretty decent vet and will have his growing pains.

[BengalsRocker]

It just seems like the amount of line shifts are overpowering the need for basic execution.

[Yojimbo]

Besides the occasional misses, the line just isn't moving anybody. Could be a technique problem (coaching) or a size strength problem (strength coach or coaching philosophy). We need beef with good feet. I'd prefer O-linemen in the 325-335 range and we only have one of those, happens to be our best.

[Fresno B]

(09-30-2016, 08:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Let me first say, i was on the front lines, with my bull horn, screaming about how pathetic they were. Then i rewatched the game today when i got home. Every offensive play, frame by frame to find the breakdowns. 

Guys are going to get beat on occasion. That's a given. With that said, here is what i saw. 

1. Ced Ob, much more than anyone, missed a pickup or simply couldn't contain his block long enough to give the RB time to do something. 
2. TEs and WRs on the end of the line were very porous--much much more so than the 5 guys up front. 
3. Jeremy Hill missed many opportunities when there was real estate to the left or right. He had a tendency to run straight ahead into a pile when a cut either way would have given him some room...which brings me to this point; i really wonder if Hill even has the ability to be a one cut back. 

The Oline has had heaps of criticism dumped on their heads recently (this year and last) but when i went back and focused on their play and not my gut reaction while watching the game, i was very surprised in what i saw. Several holes were there for bigger gains and missed. I'd say there were more opportunities missed than there were missed blocks by a C, OG or OT. 

I know this thread won't be received well, or flat out ignored, but you can't deny what is there on tape when you look a little closer. 

Agreed. People are pissed the team isn't as good as they like and blame failures on the o line.

[Shake n Blake]

Hill is averaging 3.8 ypc while Bernard is averaging 2.7. In this game, Hill averaged 3.4 while Bernard averaged 1.8 on 10 carries. If Hill is a big part of the problem, how is Gio not when he's putting up inferior numbers?

I agree that Ogbuehi has been a big problem thus far. Bodine is as well. He was much better in this game, but I'm still very worried about him going forward. It's fair to wonder if Hill contributes to the run problems, but I just have trouble believing he's a big part of it when (1) Gio is averaging a full yard less per carry and (2) we've ranked 20th or worse in YPC in every season but one (2014) from 2006-present. The one year we were good, it was mostly thanks to Hill, so...

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-01-2016, 10:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Hill is averaging 3.8 ypc while Bernard is averaging 2.7. In this game, Hill averaged 3.4 while Bernard averaged 1.8 on 10 carries. If Hill is a big part of the problem, how is Gio not when he's putting up inferior numbers?

I agree that Ogbuehi has been a big problem thus far. Bodine is as well. He was much better in this game, but I'm still very worried about him going forward. It's fair to wonder if Hill contributes to the run problems, but I just have trouble believing he's a big part of it when (1) Gio is averaging a full yard less per carry and (2) we've ranked 20th or worse in YPC in every season but one (2014) from 2006-present. The one year we were good, it was mostly thanks to Hill, so...

Agreed,

And no matter how you spin it, crack it up, or whatever our run blocking is horrible on 3 run plays out of 4. We get next to zero push, we can't run on 3rd and short or goal to do situations. We can't run when they know it's coming.

You can put blame on many things, the RB's, the play calling, tipping our hand with sets, and on and on. But it's still mostly bad blocking/not sustaining blocks that's causing the problem. If the play is to go in between the RG and T. The RB has to head to that hole. He can ad lib a little bit but can't just take off to go off tackle to the left.

The elephant in the room is the blocking IMHO

[Joelist]

The whole right side of the OL is struggling mightily this year so far. And Bodine is awful.

I do wonder also if part of it is us getting too "cute" with the blocking schemes. This line needs to get comfortable out there and in sync (WAY too many instances of unblocked defenders in the backfield) and maybe one way to get there is to simplify things for a spell - cut down on all the traps and pulls and give them some good old fashioned straight ahead drive blocking scenarios. Runs where they just fire off the snap forward into their man and drive them back. Use their size until they are more comfortable THEN get cute.

[csrbowhunter]

I would like to see Rex burkhead get some RB snaps. At this point it just looks like hill just isn't hitting the holes. Gio has been up and down since he got hurt a couple of years ago. Other teams don't worry about how they got drafted or how much they are getting paid. They just keep rotating them till they find the hot back. The bengals are always to worried about hurting their ego to replace them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-01-2016, 10:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Hill is averaging 3.8 ypc while Bernard is averaging 2.7. In this game, Hill averaged 3.4 while Bernard averaged 1.8 on 10 carries. If Hill is a big part of the problem, how is Gio not when he's putting up inferior numbers?

I agree that Ogbuehi has been a big problem thus far. Bodine is as well. He was much better in this game, but I'm still very worried about him going forward. It's fair to wonder if Hill contributes to the run problems, but I just have trouble believing he's a big part of it when (1) Gio is averaging a full yard less per carry and (2) we've ranked 20th or worse in YPC in every season but one (2014) from 2006-present. The one year we were good, it was mostly thanks to Hill, so...

I wouldn't say Hill is a big problem. My point with this thread is, the Oline isn't as big of a problem as people think, overall. For the most part (again, just going back and watching this game because it seemed that they were a huge problem this game) they played well with only a few missed blocks (about what you'd expect in a typical game). 

I'm just saying, the bigger problems were TEs and WRs missing blocks on the end of the line, Og was the weakest link this game and RBs were missing open lanes. Miami also run blitzed a fair amount of snaps. 

Generally, the typical fan won't realize that RBs contribute to a poor running game. They see a tackle at the LOS or a tackle for loss and automatically think someone on the line screwed up. In other game, that may well be true. Not so much this game. 

One thing i still don't understand is, if something is working, why not do it more until the other team stops you? The Packers didn't care how many times they ran the power sweep. They were going to keep doing it, and doing it successfully, until you stopped them and then they were going to do it some more. I remember a question being asked of someone (on the Bengals staff once) why they didn't run something more, since it was working so well, and the answer was, 'we didn't want them to catch on and make adjustments to stop it'. Something to that effect. 

I'd need to go back and watch the other games this year to see if what i'm saying for this game is true for those. I don't think too many teams are scared of the Bengals passing attack this year so they're packing the box more. 

And i'm not making excuses for the Oline because up to now, i've been right there screaming about how bad they seem to be. I wasn't looking to find excuses for them, i was actually trying to figure out who was playing so bad, but after going back and watching again, i just don't believe they were as bad this game as people, including me, originally thought. 

[HarleyDog]

(10-01-2016, 02:56 PM)3wt Wrote: I will say that once they get in open space they both look really good. 

[*rfaulk34*]

Watching the All 22 on GR and...as much you you'll hate to hear it...Bodine is playing well and isn't the weak spot, again. 

I know, i know. You saw him get blown off the ball which resulted in a Dalton sack in the 2nd quarter. The one thing you didn't see on that play was Zeitler pulling hard, right at the snap--i don't know if he thought it was a run or what he was thinking--to block a blitzer coming from the left side. You know who else was going over there to block that blitzer? Jeremy Hill. Zeitler actually bumped him out of the way to get to the blitzer (Jeremy could have just stood there and picked his nose...that's about all he could do at that point), leaving Bodine (who had started to throw out his right arm and double team #92) all alone. 

Zeitler has been buttered poo an awful lot this year, but people can't seem to get off the Bodine witch hunt. Just from a quick once-through, Og looks better this game too, so Zeitler's crappiness is mystifying. 

I'm not big Bodine fan, but i'm not going to ignore when he's playing well, which he is. 

Go ahead. Tell me how terrible they are so i have to get inspired enough to take screenshots and vines to show you what i'm saying. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-12-2016, 08:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Watching the All 22 on GR and...as much you you'll hate to hear it...Bodine is playing well and isn't the weak spot, again. 

I know, i know. You saw him get blown off the ball which resulted in a Dalton sack in the 2nd quarter. The one thing you didn't see on that play was Zeitler pulling hard, right at the snap--i don't know if he thought it was a run or what he was thinking--to block a blitzer coming from the left side. You know who else was going over there to block that blitzer? Jeremy Hill. Zeitler actually bumped him out of the way to get to the blitzer (Jeremy could have just stood there and picked his nose...that's about all he could do at that point), leaving Bodine (who had started to throw out his right arm and double team #92) all alone. 

Zeitler has been buttered poo an awful lot this year, but people can't seem to get off the Bodine witch hunt. Just from a quick once-through, Og looks better this game too, so Zeitler's crappiness is mystifying. 

I'm not big Bodine fan, but i'm not going to ignore when he's playing well, which he is. 

Go ahead. Tell me how terrible they are so i have to get inspired enough to take screenshots and vines to show you what i'm saying. 

One thing that REALLY stood out in this game was how quick Dalton was to flee the pocket and run. 

Hey, big guy...try sliding a bit, moving up a few feet and looking to throw downfield once in a while. 

[BengalsRocker]

I think Og is the flavor this week.

That flavor is sh*t.

It's been the flavor of the month for the O-line.  You know... kinda like pumpkin spice.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-12-2016, 08:48 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I think Og is the new flavor this week.

That flavor is sh*t.

It's been the flavor of the month for the O-line.  You know... kinda like pumpkin spice.

I don't think he was too bad...and i only hesitate to say that because i wasn't focusing on anyone or writing anything down as i was watching. I was just rewinding each play and watching each lineman, one at a time. 

It really is amazing how it always seems to be something different. It's not like 8 guys are playing well and 2 are breaking down mostly. Sometimes it's Og, a lot of the time it's Z, sometimes it's Boling, sometimes it's Bodine (though, much less than past years seemingly), a lot of the time it's the TEs bad blocking, sometimes it's the QB zooming out of the pocket sooner than he needs to, sometimes it's the backs missing holes or lanes...it's nothing consistent that you can point to and say 'this needs to get better for us to be better'. 

It's like the whole team just can't get in sync. 

[BengalsRocker]

(10-12-2016, 08:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't think he was too bad...and i only hesitate to say that because i wasn't focusing on anyone or writing anything down as i was watching. I was just rewinding each play and watching each lineman, one at a time. 

It really is amazing how it always seems to be something different. It's not like 8 guys are playing well and 2 are breaking down mostly. Sometimes it's Og, a lot of the time it's Z, sometimes it's Boling, sometimes it's Bodine (though, much less than past years seemingly), a lot of the time it's the TEs bad blocking, sometimes it's the QB zooming out of the pocket sooner than he needs to, sometimes it's the backs missing holes or lanes...it's nothing consistent that you can point to and say 'this needs to get better for us to be better'. 

It's like the whole team just can't get in sync. 

Z looks average to below average at times.

He just seems like he's off and his head isn't in the game.

It's like he gets a ride from Josh Gordon to the stadium.

[*jason*]

(10-12-2016, 08:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: One thing that REALLY stood out in this game was how quick Dalton was to flee the pocket and run. 

Hey, big guy...try sliding a bit, moving up a few feet and looking to throw downfield once in a while. 

Says the guy that doesn't have a guy weighing 3 bills in his face every snap...

He's obviously got the yips.

.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-12-2016, 08:42 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Watching the All 22 on GR and...as much you you'll hate to hear it...Bodine is playing well and isn't the weak spot, again. 

I know, i know. You saw him get blown off the ball which resulted in a Dalton sack in the 2nd quarter. The one thing you didn't see on that play was Zeitler pulling hard, right at the snap--i don't know if he thought it was a run or what he was thinking--to block a blitzer coming from the left side. You know who else was going over there to block that blitzer? Jeremy Hill. Zeitler actually bumped him out of the way to get to the blitzer (Jeremy could have just stood there and picked his nose...that's about all he could do at that point), leaving Bodine (who had started to throw out his right arm and double team #92) all alone. 

Zeitler has been buttered poo an awful lot this year, but people can't seem to get off the Bodine witch hunt. Just from a quick once-through, Og looks better this game too, so Zeitler's crappiness is mystifying. 

I'm not big Bodine fan, but i'm not going to ignore when he's playing well, which he is. 

Go ahead. Tell me how terrible they are so i have to get inspired enough to take screenshots and vines to show you what i'm saying. 

Thanks for studying up Rfaulk, seemed like the whole team besides maybe Lafell played terrible in that one.

Zeitler has really stood out to me in a bad way this season, early on i thought it was because of the two guys on
each side of him but i think i was wrong. He is playing bad all by himself and i don't know what the reason is.



I just hope the team starts to come together after that pathetic showing cause there was so many negatives
everywhere. Hell, even Geno looked bad. Sims was the one guy fired up out there, forgot about him. He was in
Burfict's face, actually loved the passion from Sims.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-13-2016, 12:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for studying up Rfaulk, seemed like the whole team besides maybe Lafell played terrible in that one.

Zeitler has really stood out to me in a bad way this season, early on i thought it was because of the two guys on
each side of him but i think i was wrong. He is playing bad all by himself and i don't know what the reason is.



I just hope the team starts to come together after that pathetic showing cause there was so many negatives
everywhere. Hell, even Geno looked bad. Sims was the one guy fired up out there, forgot about him. He was in
Burfict's face, actually loved the passion from Sims.

I noticed that too.  Maybe he should supplant Peko?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-13-2016, 12:20 PM)Wyche Wrote: I noticed that too.  Maybe he should supplant Peko?

Haha, been saying that for years but i think Billings will be the man to supplant Peko myself.

Sims seemed like the one guy who gave a damn early though and i believe ended up getting a sack.

Dunlap and Sims were about the only defensive guys who came to play IMHO.