To which promises do you hold president Trump.

[hollodero]

Just trying to pin those down.

Promises:

- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it)
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket
- Will rebuild Americas military
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc.
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries
- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal


To which of those will you hold him?
Not trying to look for an argument or anything, I am just curious as to how you would draw the line here. At which point, eg. at which rate of promises he might not keep, will you be disappointed at the end of the day/term?

(And just a quick side question, I looked for promises regarding the national debt - its height being a major criticism of Obama/Clinton - but I didn't find anything. What deficit do you expect the US to carry after Trumps term? Really just interested.)

[GMDino]

(11-10-2016, 01:29 PM)hollodero Wrote: Just trying to pin those down.

Promises:

- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it)
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket
- Will rebuild Americas military
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc.
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries
- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal


To which of those will you hold him?
Not trying to look for an argument or anything, I am just curious as to how you would draw the line here. At which point, eg. at which rate of promises he might not keep, will you be disappointed at the end of the day/term?

(And just a quick side question, I looked for promises regarding the national debt - its height being a major criticism of Obama/Clinton - but I didn't find anything. What deficit do you expect the US to carry after Trumps term? Really just interested.)

Campaign promises are just fodder for the flock.

I don't suppose any of us expect them to be fulfilled.  I'd like them to TRY to do it, but I don't think anyone thinks their guy (and especially the other guy) will actually do half of the things they say they will.

In the case of President-elect Trump I'd say he might be surprised about what goes into doing the things he said he would (especially the ones on Day 1) given his lack of political experience.

I also doubt any of his followers will hold him accountable if he doesn't do a single thing he promised or even tries to.

I think the tax cuts will make it through though.  Along with repealing the ACA, although I doubt with a replacement plan ready to go.  We shall see.

[BengalHawk62]

All of them.  He's the savior of the American people.  He's going to make Amerika Great Again! Just believe him. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-10-2016, 01:29 PM)hollodero Wrote: Just trying to pin those down.

Promises:

- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it)
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket
- Will rebuild Americas military
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc.
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries
- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal


To which of those will you hold him?
Not trying to look for an argument or anything, I am just curious as to how you would draw the line here. At which point, eg. at which rate of promises he might not keep, will you be disappointed at the end of the day/term?

(And just a quick side question, I looked for promises regarding the national debt - its height being a major criticism of Obama/Clinton - but I didn't find anything. What deficit do you expect the US to carry after Trumps term? Really just interested.)

Below is the order in which I'd like to see them. he's makes it to about #5 I'll be good.

- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc.
- Will rebuild Americas military
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal
- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it)
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants

[hollodero]

(11-10-2016, 01:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: I also doubt any of his followers will hold him accountable if he doesn't do a single thing he promised or even tries to.

Now that I do not really believe. I never expected people saying "all of them" or even "most of them". They are grown-ups and know better, I agree. But I really believe and hope that "none of them" is not an acceptable outcome even for the most dedicated Trump voter. It shouldn't be. At least there have to be some core principles that need to turn into something real.

(As I said, I personally believe "none of them" will be pretty close, but it's not about my pointless beliefs here. It's about remembering what people hoped for and later being able to give an honest evaluation if their hopes in Trump have been fulfilled - or betrayed.)

Any answers on the national debt question? Where does it need to be in 4 years? That one really makes me curious.

[GMDino]

(11-10-2016, 01:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: Now that I do not really believe. I never expected people saying "all of them" or even "most of them". They are grown-ups and know better, I agree. But I really believe and hope that "none of them" is not an acceptable outcome even for the most dedicated Trump voter. It shouldn't be. At least there have to be some core principles that need to turn into something real.

(As I said, I personally believe "none of them" will be pretty close, but it's not about my pointless beliefs here. It's about remembering what people hoped for and later being able to give an honest evaluation if their hopes in Trump have been fulfilled - or betrayed.)

Any answers on the national debt question? Where does it need to be in 4 years? That one really makes me curious.

If past history holds true the debt will rise considerably and no one on the right will say anything.

Honestly I can't remember the last time I even heard a peep from the tea party about anything.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Top to bottom and you forgot a significant one, which I put on top.

- Will change Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis
- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs
- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it)
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc.
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP
- Will rebuild Americas military
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton


As far as Debt goes, I would expect him to add about 25-30% more to it.

[hollodero]

(11-10-2016, 02:16 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Top to bottom and you forgot a significant one, which I put on top.

- Will change Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis
- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs
- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it)
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc.
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP
- Will rebuild Americas military
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton


As far as Debt goes, I would expect him to add about 25-30% more to it.

OK, thanks for the answer. Now the first one is somehow a sub-part of the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants, which already includes their children born in the US. So I saw the Jus Sanguini thing as part of that promise.

As for the debt... is this acceptable? I remember talking about the "disaster" US economy is in and presented some data implying otherwise, like unemployment rate, GDP and all that. And the response was, ok that doesn't matter so much, but look at the HUGE debt, that is the relevant data, that's why the US is in a disastrous state. 
And now you are fine with adding 25-30% to that number within 4 years? I can't really follow.

[Mike M (the other one)]

the change Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis is something that can be done much easier than deporting 11 million illegals and won't cost nearly as much. Do this asap, then we can see how much of an affect it will have on illegal immigration before considering other options, such as the wall.

When it comes to the debt? Ideally we want it zeroed, but I'm not seeing that right now.
If he can work out deal with some companies that have several Trillion overseas and bring that back into the US, then maybe it will stay the same.

I'm hoping with him being a business man, he will see where waste is and work to eliminate it.

Oh and I forgot, as a sign of good will towards Russia, we will send them George Soros.

[Belsnickel]

(11-10-2016, 02:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: the change Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis is something that can be done much easier than deporting 11 million illegals and won't cost nearly as much. Do this asap, then we can see how much of an affect it will have on illegal immigration before considering other options, such as the wall.

How is that an easier thing? It would probably be easier to deport them all than to get the amendment through that would be required to change that.

[masterpanthera_t]

Based on some of the posts here, I have to ask this question: How exactly does amending Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis affect the children of illegal immigrants who were born here? Is it not the case that once U.S. citizenship has been granted it cannot be revoked unless voluntarily renounced by the individual? So, from what I see, this amendment would only affect future immigration if the goals of the migrants was to birth their children in U.S. soil.

[hollodero]

(11-10-2016, 03:21 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Based on some of the posts here, I have to ask this question:  How exactly does amending Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis affect the children of illegal immigrants who were born here?  Is it not the case that once U.S. citizenship has been granted it cannot be revoked unless voluntarily renounced by the individual?  So, from what I see, this amendment would only affect future immigration if the goals of the migrants was to birth their children in U.S. soil.

Sure, this particular promise included a breach of constitution; citizenships would be revoked, so of course it would. That could not have been a secret in the first place.

Guess people just wish he'd just breach it. Or don't care.
Or are satisfied with future changes and don't hold him too tight to his promise of deporting all illegal immigrants + children right now. (Which would be legit. No reasonable being would believe Trump or any politician would keep all promises in all details.)

[Millhouse]

I dont see the wall being built, but rather border security and tech amped up.
I dont see 11 million being deported, as the resources arent there. (fyi deportations happen all the time as law dictates)
I dont see Hillary going to jail, as other top Repubs will convince him otherwise for the good of the country.
I dont see the 20+ trillion dollar debt being reduced, if he wants to spend more on military and infrastructure. (the latter does need spending tho)

I do see a reduction of refugees brought in and a reduction of immigrants in general. The latter I am ok with as long as it isnt done by profiling.
I do see tax cuts for the weathy and other corporations.
I do see a repeal of much of Obamacare, though leaving some of the good things intact (like preexisitng conditions)
I do see better laws in place for trade to be honest. This is one area his business expertise will be useful.

I dont know about much else what will happen. But I do think the Repubs may go too far and do things that will lose them the WH and Congress in 4 years. I am not a fan at all when one party controls Congress and the WH. As either party will go overboard with their far left or far right ideas, which is typically not good for the entire country,

[Benton]

(11-10-2016, 01:29 PM)hollodero Wrote: Just trying to pin those down.

Promises:

- Will deal with ISIS very quickly and take their oil That one will be interesting. He doesn't want to get in Putin's way, but Putin doesn't really care about stopping ISIS as much as settling things down. Which, in a way, will stop ISIS. If you give them what they want, they'll stop. 
- Will replace Obamacare with something much better/terrific Repeal yes. Replace, no. They'll say they're working on it and things will go back to how they were before.
- Will install a special investigator for Hillary Clinton Probably. Who cares? More waste of tax money.
- Will build a wall at the southern border (and Mecixo is going to pay for it) I'll be surprised. They'll build something, but Trump and friends need cheap labor. You don't get that with less illegals.
- Will deport 11 million illegal immigrants If he increases ICE funding, it hurts his business. If you don't increase ICE funding, you aren't deporting anyone.
- Will apply 45% tariffs on Chinese goods (and tariffs for Mexican goods)  That anyone bought this is amazing. He's going to raise expenses on himself?
- Renegotiationg trade deals and leaving TPP This one is likely. But I'd look for renegotiation to favor specific industries, i.e. , Trump friendly ones
- Will "end" (say, significantly reduce) crime and violence Yeah, sure.
- Will grant massive tax cuts for working people, corporations and the top bracket You can't do both. Most likely it'll be like Bush, temporary tax stimulus that ended up costing the middle class more.
- Will rebuild Americas military This will be interesting. Bush got rid of leaders and put in guys who helped turn the military into the current logistics service it is now. Hopefully, he'll increase salary and benefits and encourage more membership.
- Will expand and renew infrastructure, airports etc. Not when he sees why every administration for 40 years has kicked that can down the road. He most likely can't overhaul appropriations and funding allocations in 8 years let alone 4.
- Will at least dramatically reduce immigration from muslim countries Probably
- Will bring back about 4 million manufacturing jobs Doubt it. With the GOP rush, more states are going right to work. So he may bring back some, but most likely low wage manufacturing that doesn't improve the economy much.
- Will renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal Most likely he'll tell them to bugger off. I'm not looking forward to the gas prices in a couple years.


To which of those will you hold him?
Not trying to look for an argument or anything, I am just curious as to how you would draw the line here. At which point, eg. at which rate of promises he might not keep, will you be disappointed at the end of the day/term?

(And just a quick side question, I looked for promises regarding the national debt - its height being a major criticism of Obama/Clinton - but I didn't find anything. What deficit do you expect the US to carry after Trumps term? Really just interested.)

Thoughts in hold.

[CKwi88]

I only expect him to make good on:

Tax cuts for the 1%
Repeal ACA
Decrease in immigration overall

The rest was all just pandering

[BengalHawk62]

Ya, gas prices are going to skyrocket these next four years.  Especially if he gets his Big Oil friends in his Cabinet.  The price of a gallon of gasoline was $2.05 the morning of Nov. 9th 2016.  I wonder what they will be in 2020?

[Millhouse]

(11-10-2016, 04:06 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Ya, gas prices are going to skyrocket these next four years.  Especially if he gets his Big Oil friends in his Cabinet.  The price of a gallon of gasoline was $2.05 the morning of Nov. 9th 2016.  I wonder what they will be in 2020?

Doubtful. If the keystone pipeline gets approved which it probably will, and if OPEC keeps the supply as abundant as it has been in recent years, prices should be as low as they are if not lower due to basic supply/demand out there. OPEC basically flooded the world with oil, which in turn crushed the newly formed fracking industry over here. If they start to limit the supply though, prices will go up, since that is where most of oil is bought from.

Just tryin to give hope is all lol.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-10-2016, 03:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: How is that an easier thing? It would probably be easier to deport them all than to get the amendment through that would be required to change that.

Depends on the interpretation of the 14th.

(11-10-2016, 03:21 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Based on some of the posts here, I have to ask this question: How exactly does amending Jus Soli to Jus Sanguinis affect the children of illegal immigrants who were born here? Is it not the case that once U.S. citizenship has been granted it cannot be revoked unless voluntarily renounced by the individual? So, from what I see, this amendment would only affect future immigration if the goals of the migrants was to birth their children in U.S. soil.

Children already born would remain Citizens, but born after the effective date they will not be citizens. This would filter them out of the system in 18 years.

[Au165]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/giuliani-christie-interviews-clinton-prosecutor/index.html

Not looking like he is going after Hilary based on his close buddies.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-10-2016, 05:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/giuliani-christie-interviews-clinton-prosecutor/index.html

Not looking like he is going after Hilary based on his close buddies.

Why would he? He won, no need to look bitter about winning.