Trump Slams Allies in favor of Putin (again)...

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-13-2018, 12:41 PM)hollodero Wrote: Austria, since you brought that up, is a country full of narrow-minded, mostly rather primitive people. But no way. Really, no way. If Russia had aided a certain party by hacking opponents, a propaganda attack and whatnot and all agencies had confirmed that, no way the electorate would ever tolerate that leader calling all of that fake news, that Putin is to be believed over them, that whoever disagrees, journalist or official or opponent, is attacked, insulted and called names up to enemy of the people, that every investigation is painted as fraudulent and must be stopped immediately, when there's a demonstrable huge avalanche of lies to deny the obvious, there's simply no way that would be accepted. Not as of now at least.

Maybe some, a few, would be so naive and out of touch to honestly believe the lies still, maybe a few really wouldn't care, but the rest of us through all allegiances and beyond all loyalties would unequivocally be outraged, furious by that hypothetical I described. And an reelection bid (that probably would come way earlier as planned) would become a disaster for said party/leader. And the fact that you're so cynical as to be willing to understand and accept Trump's behaviour as the right thing to do and a political necessity might be the single saddest thing I ever read on this board. Tribalism really trumps national security and you actually make the case that this is the reasonable thing to do for Trump. As someone who always looked up and admired the USA, this is simply heart-breaking and that is not a hyperbole.

I think you're mistaking not publicly admitting it with not doing anything about it.  There were calls for Trump to be impeached before he was even sworn in.  There are prominent Democrats calling for his impeachment on a regular basis.  Tribalism does not trump national security, but expecting Trump to own it publicly, or Hillary if the position was reversed, is going to disappoint you.  None of this is saying that Trump's "fake news" diatribes are right or productive (although the media has blown a fair amount of stories about him in their rush to condemn him), but it is not analogous to ignoring the threat.  Trust that there are thousands of good men in women in our government working on the Russian threat and how to counter it, Trump's statements don't change that.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-13-2018, 12:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: Also there are NOT thousands of people protesting Trump in London right now.

You can't believe everything you see with your own eyes!

I thought he would actually embrace that.  

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2018, 03:04 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I thought he would actually embrace that.  

That's what I'd figure.  Oh boo hoo, the proper dandies who are scared of guns and drink tea and lost that 4th of July war to us don't want our dynamic leader there.  Wahh wahh wahh.  It's just the way it is that we get along better with dictators who aren't socialist wimps these days.

[hollodero]

(07-13-2018, 02:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think you're mistaking not publicly admitting it with not doing anything about it.  There were calls for Trump to be impeached before he was even sworn in.  There are prominent Democrats calling for his impeachment on a regular basis.

Yeah I don't think I'm mistaking that. Trump is the chief executive, and as far as I know heads of the agencies testified that there is no presidential order or even effort to counter the threat. But apart from that. This is also about everyday folk acknowledging the threat, and all efforts of Trump and GOP are aimed at disregarding the threat. Not only that, aimed at calling everyone issueing the threat as an enemy.

I think that whatever Maxine Waters or anyone else pathetic figure (and yes, I do think Maxine Waters is a pathetic politician) should never factor into that, nor should their calls. That Trump was exposed to extreme scrutiny from the start, like no other GOP president would have faced, is on him. Using that very fact as an excuse for denying the Russian threat and calling everyone who challenges this position stupid or angry democrat or enemy of the people is astonishing. And it's not so much Trump astonishing me, it's you finding that excuse and throwing it out. I don't want to be insulting, but that one really makes my question your patriotism. There are things more important than Maxine Waters. Or having a republican president, if you honestly believe not acting like he does would kill him in the polls.

(07-13-2018, 02:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Tribalism does not trump national security, but expecting Trump to own it publicly, or Hillary if the position was reversed, is going to disappoint you.  None of this is saying that Trump's "fake news" diatribes are right or productive (although the media has blown a fair amount of stories about him in their rush to condemn him),

Yeah? Which stories were extensively blown out of proportion from the media, to an account that the FOX news counter-narrative couldn't possibly even it out, so that you feel inclined to say "the media" as a whole is unfair in their condemnation. I know about some exaggerations from the more anti-Trump ones. But what has been that consistently blown out of proportion that it could ever function as an explanation for publicly denying the existence of a national security threat and slamming all those who insist it exists. Care to give an example how possible media bias is more important or decisive than a national security threat?

(07-13-2018, 02:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: but it is not analogous to ignoring the threat.  Trust that there are thousands of good men in women in our government working on the Russian threat and how to counter it, Trump's statements don't change that.

I hope that, I don't trust that. And though essential of course, it's not only about that. The public needs to know what's going on and it needs to not be misinformed or lied to about that. That's a national security issue. And doing what's in the national interest is a president's primary obligation, aside from any tactics or vanity. That I'd expect from anyone with a job, I'd expect it even more from someone given the job as an US president. Or else, the US needs to publicly resign as leader of the free world, because having a different take on that really is disqualifying.

If interference happened in behalf of Hillary. First off, I really believe that would never have happened in the first place, there are reasons why Putin preferred Trump over her so massively. But I also believe, though that woman is sure not without faults (not a fan by a long stretch), she would not have acted like Trump. And if she did? You'd be out there and condemn her for it, and rightfully so. - I think she'd sure take efforts to diminish it, including statements I would have considered irresponsible possibly. But she would not have the audacity to call everyone who points to the threat an enemy of the people or a disgrace or fake news or the most horrible people on the planet or folks who can't get over a lost election or whatever. Nope, despite all her faults, she'd not done that. And that's massive still.

And that you forge points to see that differently still is harrowing. Don't get me wrong though. The reason it's so harrowing is that I consider you to be a thoughtful and intelligent person, in all probability beating me on any IQ test. If you were an idiot, I could live with that. But since you're not, since you're anything but, it distresses me. How could you ever propose that excuse for such an obvious failure in a leader and live with that intellectually.

[GMDino]

"America First"  

Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S. foolishness and stupidity and now, the Rigged Witch Hunt!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 16, 2018

[jj22]

Trump spending the weekend attacking America's "stupidity" on behalf of Russia, while calling the EU America's foes should outrage all Americans. Including his supposedly "America first" supporters. But by now we know Trump supporters aren't pro Americans. Far from it. They support the biggest traitor since Benedict Arnold. Putin's got all Americas Intel after his meeting with Trump. Scary. But thank Trump supporters for allowing America to be sold out to the East.


God Bless Merkel. The leader of the Free World. The Free World needs her more than ever during this dark era of American history.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 10:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: Trump spending the weekend attacking America's "stupidity" on behalf of Russia, while calling the EU America's foes should outrage all Americans. Including his supposedly "America first" supporters. But by now we know Trump supporters aren't pro Americans. Far from it. They support the biggest traitor since Benedict Arnold. Putin's got all Americas Intel after his meeting with Trump. Scary. But thank Trump supporters for allowing America to be sold out to the East.


God Bless Merkel. The leader of the Free World. The Free World needs her more than ever during this dark era of American history.

Doesn't Germany aid Russia much more than the US? Seems we had this discussion earlier in this thread.

[jj22]

By buying oil from them? As we do them, Iran, and other places? Careful with Trumps spin on things.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 11:59 AM)jj22 Wrote: By buying oil from them? As we do them, Iran, and other places? Careful with Trumps spin on things.

That and Natural Gas and coal.

We get about 2% of our oil from Russia. Germany gets about 40% from them. So yeah, comparing the 2 doesn't make much sense.

Just thought it odd that you applaud Merkle as being the "Leader of the Free World" when her country is probably in bed with Russia as much as any country in the world.

[GMDino]

(07-16-2018, 12:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That and Natural Gas and coal.

We get about 2% of our oil from Russia. Germany gets about 40% from them. So yeah, comparing the 2 doesn't make much sense.

Just thought it odd that you applaud Merkle as being the "Leader of the Free World" when her country is probably in bed with Russia as much as any country in the world.

#witchhunt
#fakenews




All seriousness aside Germany has a better trade relationship with Russia than the US.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-russian-trade-picking-up-sharply/a-42564278

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2018/07/15/on-trade-trump-uncharacteristically-silent-even-as-u-s-russia-trade-balance-worsens/#d42347d26b29

Quote:Remember, how Trump ripped into Merkle for Germany's dependence on Russian gasoline? The United States receives more of its imported gasoline from Russia than any other nation on Earth except our neighbor, Canada, which has a network of pipelines into the United States.

And the gap between the two nations -- Canada and Russia -- is narrowing. Last year, 22% of our gasoline game from Canada, with 14% from Russia. So far this year, those percentages are separated by six percentage points, 19% to 13%. In May alone, the latest data available from our government, the spread is four points, 18% to 14%.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2018, 12:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: #witchhunt
#fakenews




All seriousness aside Germany has a better trade relationship with Russia than the US.

https://www.dw.com/en/german-russian-trade-picking-up-sharply/a-42564278

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2018/07/15/on-trade-trump-uncharacteristically-silent-even-as-u-s-russia-trade-balance-worsens/#d42347d26b29

Meh, you can go to Forbes and get your unbiased unfake news.

I'll rely on the EIA report:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

[GMDino]

I think it was just about a year ago Trump first mentioned working with Russia on this cyber security thing.

Maybe this meeting is just his annual review by Putin?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/putin-told-trump-russia-never-meddled-in-us-election.html

Quote: Russian President Vladimir Putin told President Donald Trump Monday that he never meddled in the 2016 U.S. election, calling the allegations "nonsense," the Russian leader said Monday at a joint press briefing.


"The Russian state has never interfered and is not going to interfere into internal American affairs including election process," Putin said during the conference alongside Trump.

Putin said that he was willing to work with the U.S. to "analyze together" any specific material related to election meddling.

"For instance, we can analyze them through the joint working group on cyber security, the establishment of which we discussed during our previous contacts," he said.

The two leaders "spent a great deal of time," talking about election meddling, Trump said at the briefing. Trump repeatedly denied that there was any collusion, saying at the briefing that "there was no collusion at all."

"There was no collusion. I didn't know the president. There was nobody to collude with," Trump said. He added that he beat Hillary Clinton "easily."

Putin sure knows how to lather up the Trump ego.  

[GMDino]

(07-16-2018, 12:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, you can go to Forbes and get your unbiased unfake news.

I'll rely on the EIA report:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

Good link...but nothing about this year.  That's what was in the Forbes link.

[Griever]

well that was.....something

[NATI BENGALS]

Any concern from the Trumpets here?

Bashes EU , bashes an investigation cranking out indictments, bashes America.

It couldnt be more clear where Trumps loyalty is. And it is not to America.

[jj22]

A sad attempt to slam an Ally was what it was. Even Kelly rolled his eyes at Trump's sad attempt it. OH wait, he was rolling his eyes because he didn't like his pastry right Sarah.


Truth is we get just as much oil and resources from countries like Iran, Russia etc, and you don't here a peep from anyone about that. Especially the right who supposedly hate Iran. Let's not forget those who Trump does personal business with. But let's judge patriotism by who we do business with. Starting with Trump.........

That's why people ignored Trumps attack on Merkel. The Leader of the Free World. Unfortunately he has people repeating his fake news attack like it's gospel or something. Go figure. They still haven't learned. Sad!

Trump's making fools out of you guys.

[jj22]

“We are witnessing something surprising, something that even the Soviet Union was not able to accomplish: Divide the U.S. and Western Europe. It didn’t work then, but it seems to be working with Mr. Trump now.”
~quote from Russia state TV

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/world/europe/trump-putin-helsinki-summit.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

This is what Trump supporters have allowed to happen to this great Nation. Spin now, but history will have a lot to say about this moment in time, and those who failed to stand with America.

Hopefully your kids will be proud of you during that lesson in America History class.

[Millhouse]

(07-16-2018, 10:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: Trump spending the weekend attacking America's "stupidity" on behalf of Russia, while calling the EU America's foes should outrage all Americans. Including his supposedly "America first" supporters. But by now we know Trump supporters aren't pro Americans. Far from it. They support the biggest traitor since Benedict Arnold. Putin's got all Americas Intel after his meeting with Trump. Scary. But thank Trump supporters for allowing America to be sold out to the East.


God Bless Merkel. The leader of the Free World. The Free World needs her more than ever during this dark era of American history.

This isnt a dark era in our history, you just want to think it is. The truly dark era is still a ways off, hopefully.

And Merkel leader of the free world? As #85 said, 'Child Please'.

[hollodero]

(07-16-2018, 12:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just thought it odd that you applaud Merkle as being the "Leader of the Free World" when her country is probably in bed with Russia as much as any country in the world.

Not as much as yours. Buying needed things from countries like that is one thing, sure one I don't like, but one all western countries are more or less guilty of. We all got and/or get energy from questionable sources and rogue countries. Again. Not defending Germany on that one, or their former chancellor who joined Gazprom for that matter.

Here's what Merkel doesn't do and would never do: Choose the week of the new indictment against Russian officials, that shows in detail how Russia interfered in their election and democracy, to meet Putin. Slam Germany's intelligence and Germany's investigators. Calling German media that report the indictment fake news, calling the investigation that turned that up as it was supposed to a disaster and a rigged with hunt, stating that of course Putin, good old journalist killer and people poisoner Vladimir Putin, is to believed over them. Blame the media and the political opponent for the bad relations to said meddling country, as if that were the truth, not on Putin at all and more important than anything.

I ridicule my homeland constantly, but even I would never ever be able to live with our leader neutering the country like that on the world stage. And that's what Trump does. His stance is the opposite of patriotism. I'd be more than willing to hear a valid counterpoint to that, but using a German gas pipeline, for obvious reasons of irrelevance, is a bad way to do so.

[GMDino]

What I find interesting is there hasn't be a defense of Trump...just complaints about those pointing out his actions.

Now there are the diehard supporters who truly believe this is all a deep-state witch hunt and literally no Russian interference happened nor is there any proof of it.  But the non-braindead who are also supporters of his "policies" have nothing.  Just complicity through silence.