Trump admin to withdraw from UN human rights council
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Trump admin to withdraw from UN human rights council
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06-20-2018, 03:02 PM
(06-20-2018, 02:37 PM)Griever Wrote: ummmm I have zero idea why you tried to tie religion into this subject, but I'm glad that you choose to show the ignorance of Christianity that is prevalent in so many. My prayer is that those that read and make comments such as this take the time to further research and perhaps understand that the main tenent of Christianity is salvation. ![[Image: bfine-guns2.png]](https://i.ibb.co/YBkDQJV/bfine-guns2.png) ![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png) 
06-20-2018, 03:02 PM
(06-20-2018, 02:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's one of those situations where certain segments of Christianity certainly put off this image. But the mainstream Christianity and the tenets (not tenant, those are renters) are more about forgiveness and grace. It's just not what gets the most play thanks to televangelists. I have no problem with people critizing the morons and scheisters of Christianity (and I am aware there are far too many, but "too many" does not = 'most' or 'all'). But, when they lump those few with the all of us, well, that's a different story. ![[Image: giphy.gif]](http://media1.giphy.com/media/9EmYYw6o9cmsM/giphy.gif)
06-20-2018, 03:05 PM
(06-20-2018, 03:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have zero idea why you tried to tie religion into this subject, but I'm glad that you choose to show the ignorance of Christianity that is prevalent in so many. My prayer is that those that read and make comments such as this take the time to further research and perhaps understand that the main tenant of Christianity is salvation. I would argue that the main tenet of Christianity is 'love'. Salvation, forgivenss, kindness, charity, etc. all stem from 'love'. Love for God and love for each other. I acknowledge that many Christians - especially those in the public eye - demonstrate anything BUT love, but that doesn't change the fact that the driving force behind the attitude and behaviors Christians are supposed to strive for and emulate is love.
06-20-2018, 03:20 PM
(06-20-2018, 03:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I would argue that the main tenet of Christianity is 'love'. Salvation, forgiveness, kindness, charity, etc. all stem from 'love'. Love for God and love for each other. And if you look at wiki it states the central tenent is believe in JC. Matt has pointed to forgiveness and grace, I have pointed toward Salvation, and you have pointed toward love. These can all be considered tenents of Christianity. In Griever's defense God does demand obedience; he's just confusing Christianity with the Laws of Moses.
06-20-2018, 03:29 PM
(06-20-2018, 03:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And if you look at wiki it states the central tenent is believe in JC. Matt has pointed to forgiveness and grace, I have pointed toward Salvation, and you have pointed toward love. These can all be considered tenents of Christianity. In Griever's defense God does demand obedience; he's just confusing Christianity with the Laws of Moses. I would argue that God doesn't "demand" obedience; rather, He expects it. However, this would sidetrack this thread even further than it already is so let's just say that Griever's comments were wrong and demonstrated an anti-Christian biogtry. 
06-20-2018, 04:20 PM
(06-20-2018, 03:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have zero idea why you tried to tie religion into this subject, but I'm glad that you choose to show the ignorance of Christianity that is prevalent in so many. My prayer is that those that read and make comments such as this take the time to further research and perhaps understand that the main tenent of Christianity is salvation. Im just adding to my "presidential portfolio" so I can con gullible people like you into voting for me 
People suck
06-20-2018, 06:39 PM
(06-20-2018, 09:08 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m missing the dictatorship part. Why add hyperbole to the discussion? You're missing the dictatorship part? Have you not been paying attention. Look how he treats the free world democracy's (Western Allies). How many times does he have to say he admires Putin and Kim for you to understand the types of leaders he looks up to? It's not like he's hiding it. That's the problem. He isn't and yet still supposedly "America first" Trump supporters are giving him a pass. I can see calling it hyperbole if he's never said it, but Trump has made clear over and over again his admiration for Dictators. His actions as President are acts of a Dictatorship, not a Democracy. You are just putting fingers in your ears then claiming ignorance. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/13/trump-kim-jong-un-human-rights-645587 https://deadline.com/2018/06/donald-trump-bret-baier-kim-jong-un-great-negotiator-killer-putin-trudeau-g7-1202410170/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/14/trump-defends-kim-because-other-nations-are-bad-too/ https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-defends-kim-regime https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/06/20/donald-trump-authoritarian-leaders-north-korea-russia-turkey-column/712221002/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/10/trump-admires-putin-but-he-doesnt-understand-him-215357 https://www.gq.com/story/trump-china-term-limits https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/28/timeline-of-trumps-praise-for-putin-while-trump-tower-moscow-was-in-the-works/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.940247afa4e6 What other Democracy talks up Dictators like this? I can go on and show pictures of Trump with Western Democracy's vs Trump with Dictators, but I believe you know exactly what people are seeing with Trump and his attempt to move America away from the Democracy's of the West to the Dictatorships of the East. Just not free to say it due to party loyalty enough to be willing to be under a dictatorship. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous 
06-20-2018, 07:24 PM
(06-20-2018, 02:37 PM)Griever Wrote: ummmm (06-20-2018, 02:43 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, actually, it isn't. (06-20-2018, 02:54 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Someone gets it. Actually guys, there is not a simple answer to this question of basic tenets if we look to the historical practice of Christianity. During its first millennium, Christianity was spread as much, or more, by the sword as by "love." The Spanish Conquest of Central and South America was an early modern version of that "Jihad." But the Church also supported the poor, usually through agency of priests and nuns who vowed poverty. In our own country, there are millions who do believe that one cannot make it to heaven without acceptance of Jesus as personal savior, plus a hefty dose of "obedience" to religious and (the right) secular authority. For those millions, and millions more around the world, it would be accurate to say BELIEF in Jesus (as the son of God) is necessary for salvation. And I have listened in as Christian sects have debated whether other Christian sects could make it to heaven. (Many in my parents' church refused to say whether Catholics could or could not; my Catholic mother-in-law just did not see how people outside the true church could.) Christianity has supported "obedience" to the powers that be for two millennia. (That is the Christianity Sessions deploys when he conflates US law and the Bible when defending the new policy of tearing families apart). In the "developed" West, however, there are many Christians who do not hold to that, or claim not to know for sure, while holding up as Christian tenets the teaching found in the Gospels, which authorize resistance to established authority and empathy for the poor and downtrodden. There are hundreds of religious organizations providing food and shelter for poor Americans, the homeless, veterans, and refugees, not to mention ministering to our substantial prison population. Some are resolutely apolitical, but many also actively oppose "unchristian" policies by harboring refugees and supporting sanctuary cities and opposing the death penalty. Black churches have been at the forefront of civil rights issues. Remember the response of so many family members to the Charleston shooting--forgiveness of the white supremacist killer. So it is fair to say many Christians believe/have believed the choice is between Jesus or hell. But it is not fair to dismiss Christianity as all about obedience or hellfire. It is also about defending and helping the helpless. When faced with Christians who demand unthinking support of punitive, cruel policies, it is a bad strategy to condemn Christianity and Christians as a group. Much better to remind Christians of their Savior's example--oppose The Sermon on the Mount to Leviticus and the Ten Commandments. Remind them that to decide for Christianity is to affirm the former. 
06-21-2018, 09:13 AM
(06-20-2018, 06:39 PM)jj22 Wrote: You're missing the dictatorship part? Have you not been paying attention. Look how he treats the free world democracy's (Western Allies). How many times does he have to say he admires Putin and Kim for you to understand the types of leaders he looks up to? It's not like he's hiding it. That's the problem. He isn't and yet still supposedly "America first" Trump supporters are giving him a pass. I can see calling it hyperbole if he's never said it, but Trump has made clear over and over again his admiration for Dictators. His actions as President are acts of a Dictatorship, not a Democracy. You are just putting fingers in your ears then claiming ignorance.If you want to believe he wants to be a dictator, that's fine by me, but he doesn't have the means. But none of what you posted has anything to do with my question. What does pulling out of the Human Rights commission have to do with dictatorship? Are there no dictatorships on that commission? Do you think the one barrier between us and dictatorship is this commission?
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
06-21-2018, 09:40 AM
No Dictatorships aren't apart of the commission. Did you even check before asking?
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/CurrentMembers.aspx The main countries against the commission now. Russia NK U.S. Go figure. And what do you mean he doesn't have the means? He does until 2020 at least. The Republican party nor Trump supporters are stopping him. That's how we got child concentration camps, that's how we've turned on our Allies in the West, why we've aligned with the likes of Russia and NK. No one stopped him from going to the G7 representing Russia. No one stops him from attacking our law enforcement with the same accusations you see Dictators make to consolidate power. Who is standing up to him against his desire to lock up political opponents like his fellow Dictators? He has the means, he just won't have the time. The GOP congress is not doing it's job of checks and balances. That's why you see Trump bailing out countries who do business with him and his family. They allow him to make a personal profit from every deal made and law passed. The family is hoarding tons of money from deals made on behalf of America just like Dictators do. The proof is in the pudding, and Trump doesn't lie or try to cover for it. His supporters just plug their ears, close their eyes, and pull the Hillary card. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous 
06-21-2018, 09:47 AM
(06-21-2018, 09:13 AM)michaelsean Wrote: If you want to believe he wants to be a dictator, that's fine by me, but he doesn't have the means. But none of what you posted has anything to do with my question. What does pulling out of the Human Rights commission have to do with dictatorship? Are there no dictatorships on that commission? Do you think the one barrier between us and dictatorship is this commission? He has nothing but anger and hyperbole and he knows it. Trump would certainly be more autocratic given the chance. He doesn't have the chance though, we are in no danger of becoming an autocracy. But acknowledging this would necessitate people actually paying attention instead of gnashing their teeth and pulling their hair out. 
06-21-2018, 09:50 AM
(06-21-2018, 09:47 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He has nothing but anger and hyperbole and he knows it. Trump would certainly be more autocratic given the chance. He doesn't have the chance though, we are in no danger of becoming an autocracy. But acknowledging this would necessitate people actually paying attention instead of gnashing their teeth and pulling their hair out. Yeah, as much as Trump wants to be an autocrat, the plutocratic system we have in place won't allow for that.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
06-21-2018, 09:56 AM
(06-21-2018, 09:47 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: He has nothing but anger and hyperbole and he knows it. Trump would certainly be more autocratic given the chance. He doesn't have the chance though, we are in no danger of becoming an autocracy. But acknowledging this would necessitate people actually paying attention instead of gnashing their teeth and pulling their hair out. At least you admitted he'd be more autocratic given the chance. Now who do you think is stopping him? Republicans led congress? Trumps supporters? Exactly. No one that can. Dems aren't in power. They can do nothing about it. As long as his supporters allow for his autocratic moves, as long as the Republican led Congress turns a blind eye to them, then what you have is a Dictatorship. It's nice to think we have checks and balances stopping this, but if those checks and balances aren't being used..... Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
06-21-2018, 10:16 AM
(06-21-2018, 09:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, as much as Trump wants to be an autocrat, the plutocratic system we have in place won't allow for that. I see what you did there. (06-21-2018, 09:56 AM)jj22 Wrote: At least you admitted he'd be more autocratic given the chance. Now who do you think is stopping him? Republicans led congress? Trumps supporters? Exactly. No one that can. Dems aren't in power. They can do nothing about it. Yes, this is why every piece of legislation that the GOP has pushed for has been passed the last 16 months. There isn't an eye rolling emoji with enough eye rolling to respond to this adequately. Quote:As long as his supporters allow for his autocratic moves, as long as the Republican led Congress turns a blind eye to them, then what you have is a Dictatorship. Except we don't, as actually events and facts, not muh feelings, have shown. Quote:It's nice to think we have checks and balances stopping this, but if those checks and balances aren't being used..... This is why Trump's refugee ban went into effect and he's gotten literally everything else he wanted too! Sorry, the Framers did a rather good job building the bones of our government. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights (2nd amendment included, sorry) have done a superb job and continue to do a superb job.
06-21-2018, 10:20 AM
(06-21-2018, 10:16 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I see what you did there. I only wish I was joking about it.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
06-21-2018, 10:33 AM
(06-21-2018, 10:20 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I only wish I was joking about it. I know you weren't. Just a thought, what government isn't effectively a plutocracy? Our original government required you to be a land owner to exercise political power. The Electoral College was created to prevent the plebs from electing someone unsuitable to be POTUS. Government officials respond to people with power. Money is a huge determinant of that power. Outside of a dictatorship like Putin's or Kim's the rich have an extremely inordinate amount of power in pretty much every nation.
06-21-2018, 11:08 AM
(06-21-2018, 10:33 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I know you weren't. Just a thought, what government isn't effectively a plutocracy? Our original government required you to be a land owner to exercise political power. The Electoral College was created to prevent the plebs from electing someone unsuitable to be POTUS. Government officials respond to people with power. Money is a huge determinant of that power. Outside of a dictatorship like Putin's or Kim's the rich have an extremely inordinate amount of power in pretty much every nation. Russia is an oligarchical system, as well. The DPRK has the "supreme leader" thing going for it, but it also has an aristocratic system when you dive into it. Every country has a system where the wealthy have increased influence in the policy arena, but that doesn't mean that's the way it has to be or that there is no way to fix it. I won't go into the nitty gritty details, but our system is more a plutocracy now than it ever has been in our history. There has always been some element of it, sure, but the founders actually sought to prevent that in their system. The widening socioeconomic inequality in our country is just making it worse. There is likely no feasible way to perfect it and become a model republic/democracy, but we've been making it worse for the past 30-40 years with policies that have been put in place.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR 
06-21-2018, 12:25 PM
To get back on the topic, are people mad because of the image of leaving a "human rights council"? Or because they actually thought this council was doing a good job? Personally I have no issue with us leaving it, though I do understand the 'image' argument for staying in.
Because this very same council has members like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Qatar, and Venezuela on it. Its a joke, like much of the U.N. anymore when it concerns human rights violations. For example back in 2016, there were 20 resolutions drawn up against Israel, 20. The combined amount for the rest of the world was 6, with 3 against Syria. lul. The amount of bias against Israel is very real. It doesnt mean Israel could have behaved a bit better at times, but with that many resolutions against them one would think they are the worst of the worst in the world. “Don't give up. Don't ever give up.” - Jimmy V
06-21-2018, 01:04 PM
(06-21-2018, 12:25 PM)Millhouse Wrote: To get back on the topic, are people mad because of the image of leaving a "human rights council"? Or because they actually thought this council was doing a good job? Personally I have no issue with us leaving it, though I do understand the 'image' argument for staying in. I think many are mad because Trump did it. Qatar nor Venezuela should be used in the same sentence as human rights council. WTS, outside of this forum I have seen nothing on this action.
06-21-2018, 01:36 PM
(06-21-2018, 01:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think many are mad because Trump did it. Qatar nor Venezuela should be used in the same sentence as human rights council. then maybe you should branch out from your safe space bubble
People suck
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