Trump admin to withdraw from UN human rights council

[*bfine32*]

(06-21-2018, 01:36 PM)Griever Wrote: then maybe you should branch out from your safe space bubble

How many times have you visited Qatar and seen their Kafala system in action?

[Griever]

(06-21-2018, 01:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How many times have you visited Qatar and seen their Kafala system in action?

I didnt feel like editing the line out, I was mainly addressing your "Ive not seen any action outside this forum" comment that I took as you saying you havent seen anyone complain about leaving outside of this forum

[Millhouse]

(06-21-2018, 12:25 PM)Millhouse Wrote: To get back on the topic, are people mad because of the image of leaving a "human rights council"? Or because they actually thought this council was doing a good job? Personally I have no issue with us leaving it, though I do understand the 'image' argument for staying in.

Because this very same council has members like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Qatar, and Venezuela on it. Its a joke, like much of the U.N. anymore when it concerns human rights violations.

For example back in 2016, there were 20 resolutions drawn up against Israel, 20. The combined amount for the rest of the world was 6, with 3 against Syria. lul.  The amount of bias against Israel is very real. It doesnt mean Israel could have behaved a bit better at times, but with that many resolutions against them one would think they are the worst of the worst in the world.

(06-21-2018, 01:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think many are mad because Trump did it. Qatar nor Venezuela should be used in the same sentence as human rights council.

WTS, outside of this forum I have seen nothing on this action.

Even though I think the council is 'corrupt' so to speak, and pretty much a joke, there was a quote from a high ranking Democrat in the house that does make sense on why Trump should not be pulling out from the council early.

"By withdrawing from the council, we lose our leverage and allow the council’s bad actors to follow their worst impulses unchecked — including running roughshod over Israel, said Eliot L. Engel (N.Y.), the top Democrat on the House committee that oversees the State Department."  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-expected-to-back-away-from-un-human-rights-council/2018/06/19/a49c2d0c-733c-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7fdc1f7dfd2c

He pretty much is admitting the bias against Israel within the UN and the council itself. And this is the only argument I have heard so far as to why it is a bad thing to leave this flawed council that replaced the previous flawed UN council on human rights.

[Dill]

(06-21-2018, 01:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How many times have you visited Qatar and seen their Kafala system in action?

What about Qatar's kefala system makes that country somehow a worse violator of human rights than allies like Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, or trading partners like China, or Trump friends like Russia?

[Belsnickel]

(06-21-2018, 03:15 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Even though I think the council is 'corrupt' so to speak, and pretty much a joke, there was a quote from a high ranking Democrat in the house that does make sense on why Trump should not be pulling out from the council early.

"By withdrawing from the council, we lose our leverage and allow the council’s bad actors to follow their worst impulses unchecked — including running roughshod over Israel, said Eliot L. Engel (N.Y.), the top Democrat on the House committee that oversees the State Department."  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-expected-to-back-away-from-un-human-rights-council/2018/06/19/a49c2d0c-733c-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7fdc1f7dfd2c

He pretty much is admitting the bias against Israel within the UN and the council itself. And this is the only argument I have heard so far as to why it is a bad thing to leave this flawed council that replaced the previous flawed UN council on human rights.

There are a lot of problems in the UN. As much as I want us to focus more on domestic issues, we need to be a leader in the world. Withdrawing from things like this does allow those problems to continue, just without our part in it. Instead of taking this approach, maybe trying to be a world leader and guide the UN in a good direction is the better approach.

That's just my thinking, though.

[Griever]

(06-22-2018, 12:43 AM)Dill Wrote: What about Qatar's kefala system makes that country somehow a worse violator of human rights than allies like Israel, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, or trading partners like China, or Trump friends like Russia?

because they are the wrong color brown

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-21-2018, 11:08 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Russia is an oligarchical system, as well. The DPRK has the "supreme leader" thing going for it, but it also has an aristocratic system when you dive into it. Every country has a system where the wealthy have increased influence in the policy arena, but that doesn't mean that's the way it has to be or that there is no way to fix it.

Both countries have an aristocratic system, but both are subject to the ultimate whim of one man.  Russia is an oligarchy in the sense that Putin has plundered his way to extreme wealth for himself and his cronies.  However, if anyone of them cross him they are quickly relieved of this wealth, and possibly their lives.  Hence my assertion that Russia is not really an oligarchy, it's a dictatorship predicated on enriching the inner circle.  North Korea doesn't have the wealth but the system is similar.  Others have influence, but Kim is calling the shot.

Quote:I won't go into the nitty gritty details, but our system is more a plutocracy now than it ever has been in our history. There has always been some element of it, sure, but the founders actually sought to prevent that in their system. The widening socioeconomic inequality in our country is just making it worse. There is likely no feasible way to perfect it and become a model republic/democracy, but we've been making it worse for the past 30-40 years with policies that have been put in place.

I would agree in the sense that the gap between rich and poor has never been larger.  Also, the extremes of wealth are compounded by the number of people now in the country.  We do need to relieve pressure on the middle class and expand it or our current system is not sustainable.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-22-2018, 08:00 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There are a lot of problems in the UN. As much as I want us to focus more on domestic issues, we need to be a leader in the world. Withdrawing from things like this does allow those problems to continue, just without our part in it. Instead of taking this approach, maybe trying to be a world leader and guide the UN in a good direction is the better approach.

That's just my thinking, though.

Meh, we'd be better off just taking over the world and become the United States of Earth.

[Griever]

(06-22-2018, 12:03 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Meh, we'd be better off just taking over the world and become the United States of Earth.

are we going to reanimate richard nixons head to be the president of earth?