Trump denies 3,000 Puerto Ricans died from hurricanes; Claims Dems made it up

[GMDino]

(09-13-2018, 01:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course our actions matter in response to Natural Disasters.  

No need to change anything if this was all a plot by the Democrats.  

[Belsnickel]

(09-13-2018, 12:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You can't say this 25 minutes later as if he is being ignored.



There's a difference between saying "3000 deaths occurred as a result of the hurricanes" and "3000 deaths occurred as a result of the federal response to the hurricanes". In this situation, Trump is explicitly denying the 3000 figure in general and pushing 6-18 with some wiggle room for a few more. I'm not going to blame him and I didn't (and I know I'm not necessarily the subject of your response), I just noted the denial of the deaths. This shouldn't be an issue of "I have to deny this independent figure because I think it makes me look bad". 

But we can't get into the breakdown of what caused each death if we are arguing over how many there even were because we're afraid of how bad that'll make us look. 

I also want to tack onto this that we need to understand that the 3000 figure is not even saying directly (from my understanding, someone correct me if I am wrong). If I diabetic dies because they are unable to access insulin because of supply issues due to the hurricane, that person died from complications of diabetes, but it is indirectly the result of the hurricanes.

These numbers are hard to come up with for a number of reasons, which is why there are different reports. The 3000 count is likely a pretty fair representation of deaths resulting from hurricanes based on what we know.

[*Nately120*]

Does Trump fanbase even know/care that PR is a US territory? It wouldn't surprise me if they would be in favor of bombing it.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-13-2018, 01:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Does Trump fanbase even know/care that PR is a US territory?  It wouldn't surprise me if they would be in favor of bombing it.

We blew the shit out of the south.  Burned Atlanta to the ground.  A little island don't mean shit.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-13-2018, 01:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Does Trump fanbase even know/care that PR is a US territory?  It wouldn't surprise me if they would be in favor of bombing it.

I'm not a part of Trump's fanbase but I don't understand why we just don't make them the 51st state. Yeah, it'll mean our flags will need updating but still ...

[BrownAssClown]

Puerto Ricans don't have the right to vote in presidential elections and no electoral college votes, so they get thrown paper towels. The states that are about to get hit by this hurricane do vote and hold many electoral votes, so you will see a different response.

[Millhouse]

In a possible related story, apparently 20,000 pallets of water bottles were left on a tarmac down there and never were dispersed during the aftermath when it was needed. As of now the finger is pointing at FEMA for this, as this water has turned bad due to being in the heat and sun.

Call me crazy, but seeing something like this does raise suspicion that maybe it wasn't a fantastic job afterall, eh FEMA?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/puerto-rico-water-bottles-possibly-millions-for-hurricane-maria-victims-sitting-on-tarmac/

[*Nately120*]

(09-13-2018, 02:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not a part of Trump's fanbase but I don't understand why we just don't make them the 51st state. Yeah, it'll mean our flags will need updating but still ...

Too hard to tell them apart from the people who are currently raiding/raping/pillaging our mainland?

[Yojimbo]

(09-13-2018, 02:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not a part of Trump's fanbase but I don't understand why we just don't make them the 51st state. Yeah, it'll mean our flags will need updating but still ...

Or we let them choose whether they want to be a state or a sovereign nation again. I’ve seen polling that suggests they’d choose the latter.

[BengalHawk62]

(09-13-2018, 02:20 PM)Millhouse Wrote: In a possible related story, apparently 20,000 pallets of water bottles were left on a tarmac down there and never were dispersed during the aftermath when it was needed. As of now the finger is pointing at FEMA for this, as this water has turned bad due to being in the heat and sun.

Call me crazy, but seeing something like this does raise suspicion that maybe it wasn't a fantastic job afterall, eh FEMA?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/puerto-rico-water-bottles-possibly-millions-for-hurricane-maria-victims-sitting-on-tarmac/

But it was a real good, fantastic effort according to our fearless leader who can never, eeeeeeeeever be wrong. 

[fredtoast]

(09-13-2018, 02:20 PM)Millhouse Wrote: In a possible related story, apparently 20,000 pallets of water bottles were left on a tarmac down there and never were dispersed during the aftermath when it was needed. As of now the finger is pointing at FEMA for this, as this water has turned bad due to being in the heat and sun.

Call me crazy, but seeing something like this does raise suspicion that maybe it wasn't a fantastic job afterall, eh FEMA?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/puerto-rico-water-bottles-possibly-millions-for-hurricane-maria-victims-sitting-on-tarmac/

Amazing story, but water does not "go bad" from sitting in heat.

[Dill]

(09-13-2018, 12:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: He said there were 6-18.

Do you think the study was done by Democrats to "make him look bad"?  Or do you think his incredibly fragile ego can't stand the thought that something bad happened and he might have to account for it?

Speaking for myself, I am sure it was closer to six.

It seemed like 18 because the liberal media were reporting the same deaths separately.

[Au165]

(09-13-2018, 02:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Amazing story, but water does not "go bad" from sitting in heat.

There is research that suggests you shouldn't consume bottled water that has been in excessive heat for long periods of time due to the chemicals in the plastic leeching into the water. Now with that said if you are in a natural disaster you are probably drinking it and worrying about the consequences later. Either way you are correct it's not technically bad.

[fredtoast]

(09-13-2018, 03:30 PM)Au165 Wrote: There is research that suggests you shouldn't consume bottled water that has been in excessive heat for long periods of time due to the chemicals in the plastic leeching into the water. Now with that said if you are in a natural disaster you are probably drinking it and worrying about the consequences later. Either way you are correct it's not technically bad.

Yeah, I can see that.

I think a lot of the health concerns are overblown, but at the same time I don't use plastic containers to heat things in the microwave.

[Au165]

(09-13-2018, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I can see that.

I think a lot of the health concerns are overblown, but at the same time I don't use plastic containers to heat things in the microwave.

There were reports from some who did drink the water it was foul tasting and smelling so I'm not sure. They were reportedly going to send it for testing but no clue what happened there. The other issue is repeated heating and cooling cycles can do different things then one solid heating so the water being out there over heat fluctuations adds a whole new spin to it beyond what most studies have looked at.

Either way it was simply a horrible job managing it. I mean ti looks like a massive structure not sure how anyone missed that stuff just sitting out there.

[Millhouse]

(09-13-2018, 02:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Amazing story, but water does not "go bad" from sitting in heat.

They complained it had the stench of Trump in it.

[ballsofsteel]

Trump was right about two things concerning PR. One that hurricane was bigly and PR is surrounded by water.

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/13/hurricane-maria-death-toll-study-george-washington-university-death-toll-donald-trump/1288908002/

Quote:How Puerto Rico's Hurricane Maria death toll of 3,000 was calculated



(Photo: HECTOR RETAMAL, AFP/Getty Images)


A team of researchers spent six months poring over death certificates, speaking to funeral home directors and interviewing doctors to arrive at a death toll of nearly 3,000 people as result of Hurricane Maria's devastation to Puerto Rico, according to the lead author of the study.

“This was a scientific research project commissioned by the government of Puerto Rico and independently done,” said Carlos Santos-Burgoa, who led the study from George Washington University's Milken Institute of School of Public Health.
Santos-Burgoa pushed back on President Donald Trump's tweets Thursday questioning the study’s estimate of the death toll. Without offering evidence, Trump said Democrats were involved in an effort to overstate the results in order to discredit him.

As Hurricane Florence is causing millions of evacuations on the east coast, President Trump is rehashing Hurricane Maria from 2017. Veuer's Nick Cardona has that story. Buzz60

“We stand by what we did,” Santos-Burgoa told USA TODAY in a telephone interview, adding that the study that found 2,975 deaths underwent rigorous peer review.

Trump's comments drew sharp criticism, both on and off the island of Puerto Rico. 

Puerto Rico has adopted the GWU study's estimate as its official death toll. In a statement, the university defended its research.

“Our results show that Hurricane Maria was a very deadly storm, one that affected the entire island but hit the poor and the elderly the hardest,” the GWU statement said. “We are confident that the number – 2,975 – is the most accurate and unbiased estimate of excess mortality to date.”

The analysis, released in August, suggested that Hurricane Maria was the second-deadliest storm to ever hit U.S. shores.
The deadliest hurricane was 1900 in Galveston, Texas. That storm killed an estimated 6,000 people.

"The victims of Puerto Rico, and the people of Puerto Rico in general, don't deserve to have their pain questioned," Gov. Ricardo Rosselló said in a Facebook video Thursday. "We accept the number of deaths ... We left this analysis in the hands of scientists and experts."

Several prominent Republicans distanced themselves from Trump's comments on the Puerto Rico death toll, including House Speaker Paul Ryan.

Preparations for the study began last December when Puerto Rican officials approached the Milken Institute. At that time, the official toll was still 64 – a low number that would remain the official count for months.

By February, Santos-Burgoa's team had a contract with the government to conduct the study. A key provision was that the study be conducted independently without input from Puerto Rican – or any other – government officials, he said.

"They never made any suggestions of anything," Santos-Burgoa said. 

A team of 11 investigators from GWU, four researchers from the University of Puerto Rico and other local community leaders spent months poring over death certificates on the island, looking at vital statistics data stretching back seven years before the storm to compare mortality rates.

The GWU researchers included epidemiologists, a demographer, a public health nutritionist, environmental health scientists, two public health research assistants, an anthropologist, a behavioral scientist and two health communication experts.

They interviewed doctors, health officials, funeral home directors, hospital directors, forensic pathologists and others involved with the death certification process to get a full picture of how deaths were classified after the storm, and used guidelines set by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. 

Along the way, their methodology was reviewed by a Johns Hopkins University researcher and by a panel of national and international experts in the field, Santos-Burgoa said. 

He said the team was “obsessed” with getting as much peer input as possible.

"We were doing the project but we had other eyes looking at us," Santos-Burgoa said. 

The report concluded that doctors and forensic pathologists on the ground in Puerto Rico didn't have the correct guidance – from either the state or federal government – to accurately classify deaths, leading to the low figure. 

Besides bringing closure to thousands of Puerto Ricans across the island, the study's estimate is also necessary to determine what went wrong and prevent widespread casualties during future storms, Santos-Burgoa said. 

He said his team is trying to get  funding for another study looking at the main causes of death during Maria, something that could help prevent more deaths in future storms, he said.

"We have to understand how these deaths happened so we can prevent them from happening again," Santos-Burgoa said. 

Some background on how they got the number they got.  Doesn't seem like the Democrats just made the number up to make the POTUS look bad. 

[BmorePat87]

Paul Ryan, Rick Scott, and Ron DeSantis have distanced themselves, accepting the 3,000 number. Meanwhile the White House issued a statement that said "President Trump was responding to the liberal media and the San Juan Mayor who sadly, have tried to exploit the devastation by pushing out a constant stream of misinformation and false accusations" but failed to provide evidence for his claim that the death count is inaccurate.

[GMDino]

(09-14-2018, 10:35 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Paul Ryan, Rick Scott, and Ron DeSantis have distanced themselves, accepting the 3,000 number. Meanwhile the White House issued a statement that said "President Trump was responding to the liberal media and the San Juan Mayor who sadly, have tried to exploit the devastation by pushing out a constant stream of misinformation and false accusations" but failed to provide evidence for his claim that the death count is inaccurate.

Why would they?

Trump says it...his followers believe it.  No proof is ever necessary.